Tuned the car @ 30psi on E85 today

[turboglenn]

Well, just as it says, i got the 30psi range about dialed in. On the last pull i saw as lean as 12.0:1 at about 7k in 3rd gear. everywhere else is 11:1 just about dead on. I'm not sure of the pulse-width i have left up there at that RPM as it's still pretty high even with the new 255 HP, but I'm only running 36psi fuel pressure so I'm hoping a bump back up to 43 will help out a bit since the new pump is the high pressure model. Anyone know how much better it hold flow in higher pressure situations?

One thing i do have to say is WOW! The car is a monster at 30psi. I got the surging issue taken care of (checked and re-adjusted everything in the intake track that i can unbolt, not sure what it was) One thing that's had me impressed is that i haven't blown a dipstick or any oil out of the cap at these pressures either 8)

If the higher fuel pressure doesn't allow me to keep pulse down I'm definitely getting a dual pump setup since i know I'm not making over 500hp and the 1000cc injectors should be able to do that on e85 at less than 100% IDC all day long from the math I've seen on peoples posts.

I'm seeing intake temps of high 130's to low 140's by the end of a 3rd gear pull, and after a 2-3-and part of 4th i saw 157*. This is without methanol for cooling and the car hasn't shown one bit of knock at these pressures and AFR's

I"m thinking about adding either pure meth or pure water back in front of the turbo for added cooling and to broaden the compressor map up some at these PR's

Just had to post since my car's only really ever been dyno'd at these boost levels (28 actually) and not driven on anything over 24-25'ish, So I'm pretty stoked.... It's definitely getting too scary for the streets when there's traffic.

 

[fwdeclipse]

That is bad ass man. I just got mine dialed in good at 30psi with a e316g it does fall to around 24psi by redline though. Ran a 12.1@116 on friday night. I have to say I love e85.

 

[Brianawd]

Well, just as it says, i got the 30psi range about dialed in. On the last pull i saw as lean as 12.0:1 at about 7k in 3rd gear. everywhere else is 11:1 just about dead on. I'm not sure of the pulsewidth i have left up there at that RPM as it's stil pretty high even with the new 255 HP, but i'm only running 36psi fuel pressure so i'm hoping a bump back up to 43 will help out a bit since teh new pump is teh high pressure model. Anyone know how much better it hold flow in higher pressure situations?

One thing i do have to say is WOW! The car is a monster at 30psi. I got the surging issue taken care of (checked and re-adjusted everything in the intake track that i can unbolt, not sure what it was) One thing that's had me impressed is that i haven't blown a dipstick or any oil out of the cap at these pressures either 8)

If the higher fuel pressure doesn't allow me to keep pulse down i'm definitely getting a dual pump setup since i know i'm not making over 500hp and the 1000cc injectors should be able to do that on e85 at less than 100% IDC all day long from the math i've seen on peoples posts.

I'm seeing intake temps of high 130's to low 140's by the end of a 3rd gear pull, and after a 2-3-and part of 4th i saw 157*. This is without methanol for cooling and the car hasn't shown one bit of knock at these pressures and AFR's

I"m thinking about adding either pure meth or pure water back in front of the turbo for added cooling and to broaden the compressor map up some at these PR's

Just had to post since my car's only really ever been dyno'd at these boost levels (28 actually) and not driven on anything over 24-25'ish, So i'm pretty stoked.... It's definitly getting too scary for the streets when there's traffic.

Is your 255hp rewired? If not I would do that. Also try and keep your base fuel pressure lower. The more you turn it up the less the fuel pump will flow.

All of last year I was on a rewired 255hp. To keep the car from leaning out I have to keep base fuel pressure at 34psi and I could not run more that 28psi of boost. If I did the car would go lean. Trying to turn up the fuel pressure would just lean the car out because with e85 you neen more volume.

 

[turboglenn]

Yea, my pump is rewred. This one is flowing more than myt last one. On the last one i woud be at 110% IDC and still going lean at 24psi and 6700RPM. This is keping up better, but i think i'm nearing 100% IDC when it's going to 12:1, but since i didn't have the logger running at the time i will never know until i record soem pulls.

The thing is getting silly fast to be tuning on roads that ahve any cars on them so i'm going to need to drive out to the country and do some pulls on the back highways. If i can't fix it to 11.5:1 and be under 90% IDC i will put in a 2nd pump (044 inline)

I'm pretty sure i can get the AFR's right since i was able to get it up to 10.8:1 by turning my fuel trim knocb on the dash... but again, what i really don't know is where the injectors were as far as IDC.

I can't wait to get soem slicks mounted up this weekend and see who wants to lay a few bucks down agains't a measley FWD eclipse ( i hear there's a lot of SRT-4's talking like thye are king sh!t at the local spot )

 

[silver bullit]

Whats the new hp? Dyno sheet?

 

[turboglenn]

Whats the new hp? Dyno sheet?

Well, i just pulled a log at 26psi and i'm getting around 92% IDC, but i'm rich in those areas and can get a few % back. I wish i knew how much better teh 255HP was at higher pressure since i feel i could use a few more psi if the flow would keep up...but who knows.

The only dyno so far is the but dyno. the only local place can't seem to load my car down. I always make about 4psi less there than i can on the street. And since the guy is somewhat competition to me i'm sure there's something to do with that factoring into my numbers from his dyno. (and why i can't get full boost on his for some reason)

I will get some numbers as soon as the tune is "perfect" in my eyes, that way i can pull up, strap on, not tell him shit about my setup and see what i can do..Either that or i'll find the corvette guys that bought our other local dyno and have them strap me on for a few pulls. I'm hoping like hell for anywhere over 400.... But who knows it's probably 390 just so i won't brake 400

 

[gsxtasy]

I'm not for sure Glenn, but if I had to guess, i would say your pump is gonna be about maxed out running that kind of boost. I'm not sure what your 57 trim flows, but turning up base pressure might make you lean out more, but who knows. All you can do is try it and see what happens. Sounds like it's makin some power though, I'll need another ride in the beast, and maybe we can avoid the cops this time.

 

[turboglenn]

I'm not for sure Glenn, but if I had to guess, i would say your pump is gonna be about maxed out running that kind of boost. I'm not sure what your 57 trim flows, but turning up base pressure might make you lean out more, but who knows. All you can do is try it and see what happens. Sounds like it's makin some power though, I'll need another ride in the beast, and maybe we can avoid the cops this time.

Ahah...For sure! My heart was beating a million miles an hour as i looked over to see a popo right when the wasteaget opened in 3rd

The car is pulling strong and not showing a trace of knock, i actually rechecked my knock sensor wires and sensitivity thinking there might have been something wrong but i didn't find anything and i can still make it knock with free reving and getting pistons slap, so i'm guessing the motor is just running great

Do you think a Bosch 044 inline with my new 255HP would be enough to keep up?

dsm bastard was getting 500hp out of a car with 950's on e85 and made 445 on 750's..both cars supposedly on wally 255 pumps, so i'm wondering where my restriction is that's causing me to still be running out of injector/pump at 30psi... i meanthe airflow at 30psi on my turbo is good for 480 horses, but there's NO WAY i'm making that much right now or i wouldn't even post about it, i'd just shut up and be happy with that kinda pony power under the hood

 

[RedWagon]

Im really interested in running this E85. Where are all the locations to find this here in lincoln? I know of 1 place thats it.

 

[Brianawd]

Ahah...For sure! My heart was beating a million miles an hour as i looked over to see a popo right when the wasteaget opened in 3rd

The car is pulling strong and not showing a trace of knock, i actually rechecked my knock sensor wires and sensitivity thinking there might have been something wrong but i didn't find anything and i can still make it knock with free reving and getting pistons slap, so i'm guessing the motor is just running great

Do you think a Bosch 044 inline with my new 255HP would be enough to keep up?

dsm bastard was getting 500hp out of a car with 950's on e85 and made 445 on 750's..both cars supposedly on wally 255 pumps, so i'm wondering where my restriction is that's causing me to still be running out of injector/pump at 30psi... i meanthe airflow at 30psi on my turbo is good for 480 horses, but there's NO WAY i'm making that much right now or i wouldn't even post about it, i'd just shut up and be happy with that kinda pony power under the hood

A 255hp and a 044 inline are good for around 550-600awhp on e85. If you really the best set up then two pumps y works the best.

 

[gsxtasy]

Im really interested in running this E85. Where are all the locations to find this here in lincoln? I know of 1 place thats it.

Hey whats up man, i get my e85 from the Get 'n split on like 16th and cornhusker. I think there are only 2 stations in Lincoln, that one and one out at a phillps 66 on west O.

Glenn, I think if you threw an inline on, it would be more than enough for what you have. Maybe you can get the 255 to work for ya by playin with the pressure some more and what not. I dunno. I do know that one of my pumps wasn't turning on a week ago(relay issue) and so my single inline 255 would NOT keep up with my 3052 at 30psi. It was a flat afr at 14:1, and still no knock , but I have since fixed that. I'm not sure how those guys do it, I know BigLady112 on here, has and knows some guys that put out crazy numbers on single 255's and smaller injectors, so there must be something to it that I'm not aware of. IDK, but you could just try raising your pressure and see what happens, who knows.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Yea, my pump is rewred. This one is flowing more than myt last one. On the last one i woud be at 110% IDC and still going lean at 24psi and 6700RPM. This is keping up better, but i think i'm nearing 100% IDC when it's going to 12:1, but since i didn't have the logger running at the time i will never know until i record soem pulls.

The thing is getting silly fast to be tuning on roads that ahve any cars on them so i'm going to need to drive out to the country and do some pulls on the back highways. If i can't fix it to 11.5:1 and be under 90% IDC i will put in a 2nd pump (044 inline)

I'm pretty sure i can get the AFR's right since i was able to get it up to 10.8:1 by turning my fuel trim knocb on the dash... but again, what i really don't know is where the injectors were as far as IDC.

Why dont you just tune for 12.1 afr... Thats not too lean, and youll make more power than than 10.8.1.... If I had e85 Id tune anywhere from 12.1-12.5 ish

Well, i just pulled a log at 26psi and i'm getting around 92% IDC, but i'm rich in those areas and can get a few % back. I wish i knew how much better teh 255HP was at higher pressure since i feel i could use a few more psi if the flow would keep up...but who knows.

The only dyno so far is the but dyno. the only local place can't seem to load my car down. I always make about 4psi less there than i can on the street. And since the guy is somewhat competition to me i'm sure there's something to do with that factoring into my numbers from his dyno. (and why i can't get full boost on his for some reason)

I will get some numbers as soon as the tune is "perfect" in my eyes, that way i can pull up, strap on, not tell him shit about my setup and see what i can do..Either that or i'll find the corvette guys that bought our other local dyno and have them strap me on for a few pulls. I'm hoping like hell for anywhere over 400.... But who knows it's probably 390 just so i won't brake 400

Second time I dynoed my car's boost was down 4psi also and I wasnt happy with my numbers nor could I increase my boost back up on the mbc for some reason...
I hit the street it and it was boost hard again... Weird?

Why dont you get that BAP thing that dramatically increases pump voltage; thats what Jeff was talking about on a previous e85 thread...

I dont understand how you keep traction, when I used to have a 1g gst I used to spin 1st and 2nd with a damn evo3gt 16g like there was no tommorow.
Every time you mention 30psi and your e85 tune all I can picture is hella torque steer and spinning all the way thru your first three gears....
Hmm.. You do have drag radials in your avatar pic though...
Lets see what them axles are made of

Im really interested in running this E85. Where are all the locations to find this here in lincoln? I know of 1 place thats it.

When you find some send me some down to Brandon Fl, zip 33510
SO I CAN HAVE MY OWN E85 THREAD YOU SPOILED &&^%&^&* 's

Ok... Im done.

 

[turboglenn]

Well, the boosta a pump is about the same cost as a dual pump hangar (around 400 or so dollars) and i already have 2 wally 255's to use for that setup. I still may go with a BAP, but until i decide i'll still be trying to make my own dual pump setup.

As for traction, I lag enough in first to get going then at 5k all hell breaks loose, then i switch to 2nd, the motor hits the rev limiter right away and i wait for the car to catch up to the tires. Then in third i start moving good with the occasional spinning of the front tires, both in my case due to LSD (especially when it's cool out i'll roast em up good) but mainly i just moderate the pedal for traction, but the biggest help has been suspension and a Quaiffe LSD. Even on street tires with the LSD i have to launch at 4500 or higher if i don't want to bog. I probably spun more often on my B16g, but that turbo hit hard and soon. My 57 trim comes on rather smoothely then pulls like a freight train untill redline, 4th still torque steers some, but i think that's half the fun is fighting for control of the FWD car
EDIT: I may tune to 12:1 but for nowe i want to make sure teh fuel system can handle going 11:1 without stressing too hard. I'd rather over engineer it than just be getting by. I checked the price for -6 lines from tank to rail today and i can build it pretty cheap, i just need to figure out what i'm going to do for my pumps....duals, BAP or add an 044 inline?????

 

[turboglenn]

Hmm.. You do have drag radials in your avatar pic though...
Lets see what them axles are made of

Ok... Im done.

Those are Mickey Thompson 26x9.5x15 slicks.... A little too tall and still spun them like crazy. I'm ordering a set of 24.5x8.5x15's this next week as soon as i know my fuel system is holding true. Then it's off to the track, but there's not a 1/4 mile closer than three hours away and i don't wanna run in the 1/8th mile at all, i barely get moving

One of the KC guys says his friend works at an O'reilly's near the track down there and that he's got plenty of tools. So i think i'm going to head down there when he's free to help if i need it and see if i can't break into the 11's... I was doing 12.08 - 12.13 last time i was down there 5 years ago on 19 psi and an open diff, i'm sure i can get 11's this time (the LSD should help a ton), the question is how deep into the 11's

 

[Brianawd]

Well, the boosta a pump is about the same cost as a dual pump hangar (around 400 or so dollars) and i already have 2 wally 255's to use for that setup. I still may go with a BAP, but until i decide i'll still be trying to make my own dual pump setup.

As for traction, I lag enough in first to get going then at 5k all hell breaks loose, then i switch to 2nd, the motor hits the rev limiter right away and i wait for the car to catch up to the tires. Then in third i start moving good with the occasional spinning of the front tires, both in my case due to LSD (especially when it's cool out i'll roast em up good) but mainly i just moderate the pedal for traction, but the biggest help has been suspension and a Quaiffe LSD. Even on street tires with the LSD i have to launch at 4500 or higher if i don't want to bog. I probably spun more often on my B16g, but that turbo hit hard and soon. My 57 trim comes on rather smoothely then pulls like a freight train untill redline, 4th still torque steers some, but i think that's half the fun is fighting for control of the FWD car
EDIT: I may tune to 12:1 but for nowe i want to make sure teh fuel system can handle going 11:1 without stressing too hard. I'd rather over engineer it than just be getting by. I checked the price for -6 lines from tank to rail today and i can build it pretty cheap, i just need to figure out what i'm going to do for my pumps....duals, BAP or add an 044 inline?????

Shoot for 11.5-11.8 afr. No reason to go 12.1. Most all the cars I have seen on the dyno on e85 don't make any more power at 12.1. Also remember to keep your timing at a max of 20-21degs. I say this Because of how hard it is to get the car to knock on e85. A lot of people are running to much timing and creating really high cylinder pressures that are cracking blocks.

 

[El Cuervo]

Hey congratulation Glenn. Thats awesome!! You'll need to give me a ride on your 2g sometime. That would be great!!

 

[JayRolla]

Thats good you got the thing tuned out. Im still seeing 5 counts max, which is right when boost hits and I think its really PK. Anyways after that its smooth sailing with 22* timing. I just love how hard the 16g hits at this boost level.

 

[Rob10_99]

One thing to keep in mind is the AFR you see is not actual, unless you have a gauge that has settings for different fuels.
That 12:1 you guys are speaking of is what your wideband sends because its programmed for petrol.

 

[Car Cannibal]

That's a lot of boost and I'd guarantee your injectors are too small and your pump is on the edge of keeping up with the volume needed. There is someone selling twin pumper kits, I'd do that before you go external with the stocker.

Determine how much power you want to make, then find an injector that will do it with with no more than 85% duty cycle on gas. Take that injector and add 30% to it and there's your new E85 injector. I'd bet your looking at 1400cc's or bigger.

Most likely you can get away with an injector upgrade and a fuel pressure bump with the hotwire, but keep track of your estimated HP and make sure your pump is able to flow the needed volume with the 30% drop.

 

[Brianawd]

One thing to keep in mind is the AFR you see is not actual, unless you have a gauge that has settings for different fuels.
That 12:1 you guys are speaking of is what your wideband sends because its programmed for petrol.

the wideband that most of us own shows stoic at 14.7:1, because it is calibrated for gasoline. That same wideband, when run with E85, is going to display something like 12:1 when the AFR is actually 8.5:1 with E85. Basically, you can still tune it like you would on gas, but just keep in the back of your mind that you are actually dumping WAY more fuel in than the wideband would indicate. It is more accurate to say that the Lambda is the same whether you are tuning for gas or E85. Check out page 13:
http://www.motec.com/support/manuals/Manual AFM1 A5.pdf

 

[turboglenn]

That's a lot of boost and I'd guarantee your injectors are too small and your pump is on the edge of keeping up with the volume needed. There is someone selling twin pumper kits, I'd do that before you go external with the stocker.

Determine how much power you want to make, then find an injector that will do it with with no more than 85% duty cycle on gas. Take that injector and add 30% to it and there's your new E85 injector. I'd bet your looking at 1400cc's or bigger.

Most likely you can get away with an injector upgrade and a fuel pressure bump with the hotwire, but keep track of your estimated HP and make sure your pump is able to flow the needed volume with the 30% drop.

I had plenty of injector with 720's, it was the pump that was falling short. I upgraded to 1000cc injectors anyway and that's when i realized it was teh pump because i ran out of fuel at hte same boost and RPM, but that's as far as i'm going with it. I may add more pump to the equation, but 1000's are plenty enough for the range i'm putting down as long as i find a suitable pump.

My timing is at 22* at redline and 23 in the peak torque areas

 

[Black_Bullet]

I had plenty of injector with 720's, it was the pump that was falling short. I upgraded to 1000cc injectors anyway and that's when i realized it was teh pump because i ran out of fuel at hte same boost and RPM, but that's as far as i'm going with it. I may add more pump to the equation, but 1000's are plenty enough for the range i'm putting down as long as i find a suitable pump.

My timing is at 22* at redline and 23 in the peak torque areas

You probably want less timing during peak torque and more up top?
( Thinking out loud. )

I dont know I still think you should just tune for 12.1 and call it a day.
Or even 11.8 like the other guy said, theres no reason to run it rich as 11.1 imo.
You said you were actually going to degrade your turbo to a 20g anyways right...

Oh, and driving 3 hrs to the track, you need a trailer for that thing.
I only have to drive 45mins to the nearest 1/4mile to me and I think thats too far .

I think you will hit your goal if the track is prepped properly and your slicks are biting good, with some good driving. Im more curious of your mph.

How much weight reduciton do you got done to that thing?

 

[turboglenn]

You probably want less timing during peak torque and more up top?
( Thinking out loud. )

I dont know I still think you should just tune for 12.1 and call it a day.
Or even 11.8 like the other guy said, theres no reason to run it rich as 11.1 imo.
You said you were actually going to degrade your turbo to a 20g anyways right...

Oh, and driving 3 hrs to the track, you need a trailer for that thing.
I only have to drive 45mins to the nearest 1/4mile to me and I think thats too far .

I think you will hit your goal if the track is prepped properly and your slicks are biting good, with some good driving. Im more curious of your mph.

How much weight reduciton do you got done to that thing?

Actaully I am probably going to end up with less timing in teh mid and a little more up top, but i need a dyno to see those tiny changes in power. I haven't taken any weight out of the car as i just this year decided to start making it more of a strip machine but keep plates on it. It was mainly just a quick DD for years.

Just today i went to 11.8 - 12:1 AFR and things are picking up even more. I'm not going any leaner than that, and i'm happy with it so far and i'm saving some IDC

Once i get the tune down perfect (i'm picky about my tunes) I'm going to introduce some water/meth pre-turbo using the smallest nozzle i have soley for the aerosol cooling of the charge air and fending of surge. Between E85 and meth, I'm actually starting to make enough power in the heat of summer that i'm not totally disgusted with my car when it's 90* out

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

Shoot for 11.5-11.8 afr. No reason to go 12.1. Most all the cars I have seen on the dyno on e85 don't make any more power at 12.1. Also remember to keep your timing at a max of 20-21degs. I say this Because of how hard it is to get the car to knock on e85. A lot of people are running to much timing and creating really high cylinder pressures that are cracking blocks.

I was wondering about when I was going to find out about people ruining their engine blocks running all this boost and timing. Even though there is NO knock, you can still run high enough combustion pressures to stretch and melt things. Does anybody have EGT datalogs with E85, at various A:F ratios, and various amounts of timing and boost? This would really help to determine how safe it is to run extremely high performance on. EGT would be a good indicator of what is safe reguardless of knock and timing advance. Would it be safer to run forged internals and aftermarket valves for E85 and high boost?

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

That's a lot of boost and I'd guarantee your injectors are too small and your pump is on the edge of keeping up with the volume needed. There is someone selling twin pumper kits, I'd do that before you go external with the stocker.

Determine how much power you want to make, then find an injector that will do it with with no more than 85% duty cycle on gas. Take that injector and add 30% to it and there's your new E85 injector. I'd bet your looking at 1400cc's or bigger.

Most likely you can get away with an injector upgrade and a fuel pressure bump with the hotwire, but keep track of your estimated HP and make sure your pump is able to flow the needed volume with the 30% drop.

javascriptopupWindow('https://secure.buschurracing.com/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=1196')

Just copy/paste, take a look, and try to build something similar for YOUR application. How much for just the bracket and no fuel pumps?