MAJOR problem, no oil pressure after rebuild

[mysticfire6602]

ok, i just got the whole engine completly done and reconnected yesterday. today i disabled the spark and fuel to prime it up by cranking it, and the gauge reads 0, so i hook a mechanical guage, and it reads 0. what the heck did i do wrong!

 

[jesepes]

my spark plugs have been out the whole time.

I'm glad to hear this, it will take much longer to wear/score/stratch bearings with plugs out, while cranking w/o oil pressure.

how would a non-primed oil pump work compared to a primed one? would it just not suck up oil?

Non-primed pump will work very poorly or not at all. Air can bypass the pump right around the gears, especially if the pump isn't BRAND new and has some minor/serviceable wear on it. A non-primed pump may not suck up any oil at all.

and in the case i have to take the oil pump back out, do i really need to take the engine back out, ive already taken it out 2 times in 1 month and i dont feel like taking it back out.

In my own personal experience with doing exactly that, NO you do not have to take out the engine. Note that I have a 92 AWD, if that makes any difference(I doubt it for this removal.)
The driver's engine mount must be taken off, and engine lowered on the drivers side to allow clearance of front cover to come out with BS still attached to it. It's a PITA, but it is do-able.

If you decide to take out the pump, you might try disconnecting the BS first. Take out front cover bolts and pull assembly out as far as it will go so you can get a grip on the BS(with pliers/strap wrench/etc.(be careful not to damage the bearing surface!)) Remove, by unscrewing, the splined cover directly above the oil pump sprocket(you have to take the sprocket off to get this off.) You then have to hold the BS while removing the bolt that is under the splined cap. Then the BS can be separated from the oil pump housing/front cover. Reference this same link

ok, i have both balance shafts in, and yes i did take apart the oil pump.

Did you line up the dots in the oil pump when you put it together? Look at the link I gave above and find the picture of the two gears with the dots. Did you do this? If not or you don't remember, now is the time to fix it, not later.

Good luck, let us know what's going on,

 

[mysticfire6602]

ok, i didnt do much to it today, when i went in i tried gurrmanator's method "put everything back together and start the car,make damn sure the oil pressure gauage works.....when the car starts you will know rite away if you have oil pressure or not,if you dont,then shut the car off..." my car wouldnt start. i have everything connected correctly, i have spark, i have fuel, but no start! so i hooked up a snap on scanner because my teacher wanted to see what my collant temp sensor was reading. when i hookep up the scanner everything was reading normal. why the hell wouldnt my car want to start? it really really wanted to start a few times, and he punped the accelerator too. well ill try more stuff tomorrow.

 

[GTM]

my spark plugs have been out the whole time.

my teacher claims that he primed the oil pump prior to install. how would a non-primed oil pump work compared to a primed one? would it just not suck up oil? and in the case i have to take the oil pump back out, do i really need to take the engine back out, ive already taken it out 2 times in 1 month and i dont feel like taking it back out.

I ask again, did you get oil out of the pressure relief hole when cranking?

If not then everything else is moot. I have suggested that you put a drill motor (battery or 110v) on the bolt/nut holding the cogged gear to the shaft with the belt removed... was this ever done? You can actually do this with a speed handle and a universal/swivel socket.

If it doesn't prime under those conditions then you have a problem with the pump, gears, drive, sealing, _or_ the pickup pipe/screen. No if and but or nor for's about it. This is a go or no go condition which must be met.

You must establish logic rather than that of a butterfly skipping around to different ideas being offered.

As for the no start/almost start, this could be cause by it going into limp mode with only 2 cylrs trying to fire. This could be caused by the sensors including the oil pressure, coolant, knock etc. all of which can be tricked into thinking they are generating the proper signal. I don't know if the dropping resistors are monitored during the cranking mode.

I am not going to spin my wheels trying to second guess this if basic diagnostic procedures are not followed when they will only take 5 minutes out of your life.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[unlikely hero]

I'm just finishing my engine build and thinking back i never primed the new oil pump I put on there. Would attaching a drill to the pump and spinning it prime it correctly or what else will i need to do?
=Jason-

 

[DSMraver]

I ask again, did you get oil out of the pressure relief hole when cranking?

If not then everything else is moot. I have suggested that you put a drill motor (battery or 110v) on the bolt/nut holding the cogged gear to the shaft with the belt removed... was this ever done? You can actually do this with a speed handle and a universal/swivel socket.

If it doesn't prime under those conditions then you have a problem with the pump, gears, drive, sealing, _or_ the pickup pipe/screen. No if and but or nor for's about it. This is a go or no go condition which must be met.

You must establish logic rather than that of a butterfly skipping around to different ideas being offered.

As for the no start/almost start, this could be cause by it going into limp mode with only 2 cylrs trying to fire. This could be caused by the sensors including the oil pressure, coolant, knock etc. all of which can be tricked into thinking they are generating the proper signal. I don't know if the dropping resistors are monitored during the cranking mode.

I am not going to spin my wheels trying to second guess this if basic diagnostic procedures are not followed when they will only take 5 minutes out of your life.

Cheers,
GTM

Knock and Oil pressure sensors will *NOT* cause the car to no-start. My oil pressure sender wire has been broken since winter, and my car starts 100% (not the best idea, but it's a beater, who cares)

I do agree that the pump needs to be primed, but it seems like you've got some other serious problems, if the car wouldn't even fire up...

 

[Burnett03]

As for the no start/almost start, this could be cause by it going into limp mode with only 2 cylrs trying to fire. This could be caused by the sensors including the oil pressure, coolant, knock etc. all of which can be tricked into thinking they are generating the proper signal.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. Car will start without knock sensor, coolant temp sendor, or the oil pressure sender. Stop feeding wrong information. Also the car should develop pressure without the pump bring primed, but its always a good idea to pack the oil pump gears with grease/oil.

 

[Fattie92]

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. Car will start without knock sensor, coolant temp sendor, or the oil pressure sender. Stop feeding wrong information. Also the car should develop pressure without the pump bring primed, but its always a good idea to pack the oil pump gears with grease/oil.

I agree about 2 things. The car will start without the knock sensor and oil pressure sensor hooked up. It will fire right up. But i dont agree about the coolant temp sensor. if the coolant temp sensor is unpluged, it will barely start, or not start at all. It will read an OPEN circuit and tell the ECU thatthe coolant is around -79 degrees. (at least this is the case with my 1g)

 

[GTM]

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. Car will start without knock sensor, coolant temp sendor, or the oil pressure sender. Stop feeding wrong information. Also the car should develop pressure without the pump bring primed, but its always a good idea to pack the oil pump gears with grease/oil.

It would be helpful if you help us out here because this is a problem for mysticfire6602.

I just wonder if some of you know the difference between a _sender_ and a _sensor_ before claiming misinformation. I'm always open to learning something new so give it your best shot. Only 2 rules, no urban legends and explain it as if you were talking to your girl friends mother.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Fattie92]

just for clariety, i am talking about the coolant temp sensor for the ECU and not the sender for the gauge. If your looking at your T-stat housing, the one on the top is for your gauge. And the other one for the ECU is down at the bottom of the waterneck (under the coolant hose), and closest to the engine.


If there is a problem with the sender or the sensor, it should throw a code 21.

 

[GTM]

...
If there is a problem with the sender or the sensor, it should throw a code 21.

Which is it a sender or a sensor. Why the the sender throw code?

With the engine running:
Get a small hammer and quickly rap on the block next to the Knock sensor and tell me what happens.
Unplug the oil sender and tell me what happens.
Unplug the temp sensor " " ".

You should be able to do those tests in 5-10 minutes including trying to restart.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Fattie92]

Which is it a sender or a sensor. Why the the sender throw code?

With the engine running:
Get a small hammer and quickly rap on the block next to the Knock sensor and tell me what happens.
Unplug the oil sender and tell me what happens.
Unplug the temp sensor " " ".

You should be able to do those tests in 5-10 minutes including trying to restart.

Cheers,
GTM

i appoligize, i take back the "sender" throwing a code.

 

[GTM]

i appoligize, i take back the "sender" throwing a code.

Not a problem, it's unfortunate that some of the others have nothing better to do when it's obvious they have another agenda unrelated to the no oil pressure or a series of conditions which could cause a no start. This poor young fellow has probably worn out the hood latch from opening the hood so many times. I'm sure his teacher could fix it but then there would be no learning in that process.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[mysticfire6602]

ok, todayi took off the timing belt and attached an electric drill to the oil pump sprocket and spun the hell outa the pump. no oil pressure according to the gauge in the car, no oil pressure according to the mechanical gauge, and no oil comming out of the hole for the oil pressure sending unit. there was no time to back off the pressure relief, i will do it tomorrow. when my teacher came over and hand spun the pump, he said it definatly is pumping oil, and so did our secondary teacher, so i am taking off the metal housing that the oil filter is spun onto tomorrow and looking for clogs af any kind and checking out the pressure relief. but that is definatly the problem, something in there. and no i dont have a problem with the coolant temp sensor, the snap-on scanner says all sensors are fine. thanks for all the help and i will keep updated as often as i can, right now my internet wont be working until sometime this weekend.

 

[GTM]

...
he said it definatly is pumping oil, and so did our secondary teacher, so i am taking off the metal housing that the oil filter is spun onto tomorrow and looking for clogs af any kind and checking out the pressure relief. but that is definatly the problem, something in there. and no i dont have a problem with the coolant temp sensor, the snap-on scanner says all sensors are fine. thanks for all the help and i will keep updated as often as i can, right now my internet wont be working until sometime this weekend.

And there you have it!!! Hate to be an I told you so...

Do pull the relief valve and make one last check but the oil sending unit comes before the relief valve so you should have had some oil escape. Let me guess ... you have a gasket in backwards and blinding the passage??

Once repaired, do spin the pump again, pull the oil fill cap and look for oil in the head. If the valve cover is off throw shop rags over the cams and hydraulic lifters for it will shoot oil a good 6'. Once the belt is on and timed make one last pull through by hand a few times incase the hydraulic lifters are holding a valve open. This will give them a chance to do it's self-adjusting, it's just common sense and only takes a minute before you start to crank.

Good news, you are on to it's dirty tricks, what a lesson though.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Bostedquest]

and lesson learned to ALWAYS prime the oil pump...

 

[GTM]

and lesson learned to ALWAYS prime the oil pump...

I think what you mean is to prime the system by spinning the pump until you have oil coming from cam bearings, hydraulic adjusters and oilers _BEFORE_ installing the belt.

You must do this with the cam followers in place or they will go to max adjustment even if you know they may need to come back out to so you can rotate the cams for adjustment.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[97GS-TSpyder]

Did you forget to put the oil pump back? SIlly kid.

No really, i contributed nothing, But i do hope you figure it out

 

[GTM]

...
Let me guess ... you have a gasket in backwards and blinding the passage??
GTM

Just came across this which might give you a clue where to look. It's hard to imagine that a gasket maker would have failed to punch holes for the main oil feed for they would have a lot of court cases on their hands. I'd wondered how the oil moved from one side of the block to the other and though that could be a source for this problem. If this is made from the heavy paper fiber type it might just be strong enough to hold back the oil pressure at low rpm.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175475

Keep us updated.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[mysticfire6602]

ok, well this is what happened yesterday. we determined its not the oil relief, i took off that housing from the front cover and spun the oil pump with that off and there was still no oil comming out. so now i have to take the fropnt cover off and see wtf is going on on monday. ill let ya know whats up.

 

[BUCK]

Good opportunity to do the BSE you should have done to begin with

 

[GTM]

Good opportunity to do the BSE you should have done to begin with

Hi Buck: BSE, Balance Shaft Exchange???

Do you know how the oil crosses the front of the engine? Other than a gasket passage being blocked all I can think of is the cover did not seat because of a locator dowel and is bridged open allowing oil to escape at that face.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[GTM]

...
so now i have to take the fropnt cover off and see wtf is going on on monday. ill let ya know whats up.

I need my daily fix, any progress or update?

Cheers,
GTM

 

[mysticfire6602]

my teacher wont be back until thursday so no updates until thursday

 

[mysticfire6602]

update!

i took off the oil pickup, took a bottle to fill differentials that was completly full with 10w-30, squeezed the stuff up in the pick up as i spin the pump with a drill, and viola! oil starts shooting out after 5 seconds! then i bolt on the housing the hold the sensors and oil filter and redo the proces just to make sure, and it wokrs! on monday my eclipse will finally be alive! that is if it will start...

 

[GTM]

update!

i took off the oil pickup, took a bottle to fill differentials that was completly full with 10w-30, squeezed the stuff up in the pick up as i spin the pump with a drill, and viola! oil starts shooting out after 5 seconds! then i bolt on the housing the hold the sensors and oil filter and redo the proces just to make sure, and it wokrs! on monday my eclipse will finally be alive! that is if it will start...

I have only 1 question, is your instructor satisfied because I am not? Understand he is there and I only have the words you have typed.

I am just so suspicious that you have a priming problem which will continue to draw air rather than oil and end up spoiling your work.

Sorry you have had all this trouble. Reflecting back with all the many posts and opinions tossed your way can you arrive at any conclusions?

Cheers,
GTM