Look over my mods before I finalize this. 400whp goal

[boostadd1ct]

Hi guys and gals.

This will be my second chance at a DSM, my first one I sold because of the shell condition.

Anyways the car is a 1992 Talon Tsi. 6-bolt

Goal is 400whp, and DD so reliability is a must. But I have a back up car and bike so its not like im screwed if stuff breaks. so a budget build.
I know about the whole fast/reliable/cheap, but I find that all 3 can be had at a budget and when parts are match/chosen wisely.


I have quite a few parts that I have accumulated throughout the years of modding cars. so from the start heres what ill have.

boost gauge
wideband
boost controller
meth injection kit
electric cutout (im planning of using stock catback with a cutout up front)
custom exhaust/dp (i can weld)
FMIC and piping.
aeromotive fpr(boost ref)
walbro 255 will rewire
agp rs49t Turbo(acquired from a friend)


what I plan to purchase:
poly bushing for engine mount and trans (seeing that im pulling them out)
new clutch fork and pivot ball and short shifter
spec stage 3
fidanza flywheel
fic 950cc injectors
sparkplug wires
ecmlink v3
intake and piping
ssqv bov recirculated.
95-99 exhaust manifold


anything else im missing? any recommendation?


My other question.
I was looking to upgrade the 1g mas with the 2g one but I read that it is eliminated with the ecmlink v3? so its not needed?

also eprom ecu is needed for the link, I was wondering if I bought an eprom ecu do I need to send it out or do I just by the ecmlink?


lastly: The current engine in the car is suffering from a blowby, I have not done test on it yet since I just got it but I was curious on whats the best option.
I know I want to rebuild it. Im thinking stock rebuild with the exception of arp head studs and mls.

but at the same time im thinking of putting in piston while its open. whats your take.

im planning on keeping the head stock since i think ill hit 400whp with a full stock head/block with mls and arp.

any input would be nice. thanks

 

[Calan]

DSM 4G63 Maintenance Guide - DSMtuners
Tech Guide: 1G 4G63t Upgrades - DSMtuners

 

[StarFawkes]

You don't necessarily need a MLS head gasket for 400whp.
The stock bottom end can usually handle 400whp and still be relatively reliable but you really should build the head with a minimum of cams and valve springs.
The ECU will need to be sent in to be socketed with ECM Link.
Most people switch out to a GM MAF with the translator.
Not to mention all the maintenance.

Edit: You don't need a meth injection kit for 400whp either.

 

[Calan]

Most people switch out to a GM MAF with the translator

An Evo MAF would be easier, and SD is a much better option than either of those with V3.

 

[untouchablecc]

As a personal preference I would go with the ACT flywheel. I have had the Fidanza on multiple cars. Not bad flywheel but I like one with more rotation weight for idle and stop and go traffic.

Also not a fan of the cutout. I know its big in the srt world. I like to eliminate as many variables of tuning and boost creep/spike issues as possible so a 2.5 exhaust would not be a terrible idea. Just my 0.2

DSM does not eliminate the need for the stock maf. You still have to buy another form of air metering if you eliminate it. 2g,evo,gm maf, gm iat /baro sensors.

 

[DRTredHEAD]

I agree with a mild head job a) You don't know what condition its in whether its warped or not b) later on your going to want to upgrade cams so I would do bare minimum of a valve job and upgraded springs. Your going to have the head off anyway (I'm sure this goes without saying but don't for get the 3g lifters). V3 allows for the SD conversion but allows for MAF tuning as well. I also agree with the act flywheel if you want go light weight, the rotational mass will definatly help if you plan on DD this car there is also nothing wrong with the stock flywheel for DD. I used a stock flywheel with act 2600 and a 6 puck unsprung for 6 years no problems, beat sh** out of the car and loved it, making just over 400 on my awd 93 when it was a daily. And just do a full 2.5" or 3"
Exhaust. Cut outs create tuning issues, if you don't have an electric dump what happens when you want to go buck wild on some punk on the highway? Are you going to pull over and remove your cut out? If you buy an electric dump your going to spend the same money that you would on a proper full exhaust.

 

[boostadd1ct]

DSM 4G63 Maintenance Guide - DSMtuners
Tech Guide: 1G 4G63t Upgrades - DSMtuners

not new to modding cars, maintenance is a given. not to mention I'm planning on rebuilding my engine=full maintenance would be done.

as far as the list I saw that and I disagree with some of the mods there. example would be exhaust side.

and also I was wondering about some stuff that wasn't included there like 2g maf, seems like its worth it enough. which made me wonder what other mods like that isnt there.

thanks

 

[92AWDHX40]

I would look at the types of tuning devices for your your setup before getting a 2g maf or upgrading mafs, there is lots of information on items to tune with and choices.

 

[boostadd1ct]

You don't necessarily need a MLS head gasket for 400whp.
The stock bottom end can usually handle 400whp and still be relatively reliable but you really should build the head with a minimum of cams and valve springs.
The ECU will need to be sent in to be socketed with ECM Link.
Most people switch out to a GM MAF with the translator.
Not to mention all the maintenance.

Edit: You don't need a meth injection kit for 400whp either.

for the MLS piece of mind. and im unsure at the moment at what psi will get me my goal.


I see no point of building the heads and spending that much MORE for my goal. when its capable of getting there. Im not after revving it higher than stock niether. In short I just think its money better spent else where.

I thought the gm maf is more problematic with temperature change? 2g seems like a better oftions that a bolt on and go with less hassle later.


maintenance is covered. thanks

methanol kit will be used for 3 reason.
1. I have a feeling i will be running 20+psi to reach my goal and on 91octain.
2. run cooler on a really hot summer and on general, california gets to 100. when I had my supra it would get heat soak like crazy=car felt way too slow on summer.
3. I already have it, im not using it on my datsun so this will be a great addition.

thanks

As a personal preference I would go with the ACT flywheel. I have had the Fidanza on multiple cars. Not bad flywheel but I like one with more rotation weight for idle and stop and go traffic.

Also not a fan of the cutout. I know its big in the srt world. I like to eliminate as many variables of tuning and boost creep/spike issues as possible so a 2.5 exhaust would not be a terrible idea. Just my 0.2

DSM does not eliminate the need for the stock maf. You still have to buy another form of air metering if you eliminate it. 2g,evo,gm maf, gm iat /baro sensors.

i like the lightened one over stock weight, unsure of how much the act cost but if its not lightened i would just use the stock one.
but this is based on my supra background. i have no experience with dsm.


electric cutout would eliminate any need for a back exhaust.
im a fan of cutout and installed it in all my rides.
I live in cali so I like looking stock to avoid any hassle from cops, and when you need it you just push a button( i have a wireless remote so its literally one push and it opens/closed by itself).


yeah I thought so, Its just that I saw an intake/2g for sale on ebay and he said he went v3 and no longer needed maf...

thanks

I agree with a mild head job a) You don't know what condition its in whether its warped or not b) later on your going to want to upgrade cams so I would do bare minimum of a valve job and upgraded springs. Your going to have the head off anyway (I'm sure this goes without saying but don't for get the 3g lifters). V3 allows for the SD conversion but allows for MAF tuning as well. I also agree with the act flywheel if you want go light weight, the rotational mass will definatly help if you plan on DD this car there is also nothing wrong with the stock flywheel for DD. I used a stock flywheel with act 2600 and a 6 puck unsprung for 6 years no problems, beat sh** out of the car and loved it, making just over 400 on my awd 93 when it was a daily. And just do a full 2.5" or 3"
Exhaust. Cut outs create tuning issues, if you don't have an electric dump what happens when you want to go buck wild on some punk on the highway? Are you going to pull over and remove your cut out? If you buy an electric dump your going to spend the same money that you would on a proper full exhaust.

well the head/block will get a looked over since Im planning on a rebuild due to blowby issues now.
Im also planning on mls which means im getting the head/block resurface.

how much needed is cams/springs for 400whp?
the thing is thats going to cost an extra 700+ (not sure on pricing but i figured cams are in the 400-500 range)

I have not encountered the 3g lifter during my search. can you clarify.


and I agree lightened flywheel isnt needed but based on my experience I liked it when I switch to a lightened one.



um what kind of tuning issues are we talking about? its just like running a downpipe. unless dsm responds different(which im unaware of).

and I WROTE electric cutout. Ive used them in my past 3 supras and my current datsun with turbo v8. all had zero issues with tuning.

not to mention there are all remote controlled so you just push a switch and it auto opens/closed.

plus its quite when you need it quite

I would look at the types of tuning devices for your your setup before getting a 2g maf or upgrading mafs, there is lots of information on items to tune with and choices.

yea im set on dsmlink, based on my search not much better option for the price/simplicity and thanks i started reading about SD conversion some more and looks like i will be going to that route. Ive always been a fan of sd ever since ive used a hks pvc

 

[liquidsilver]

It costs more to do a full build, but you said yourself you want piece of mind. So if you can spend more I always suggest getting everything up to level on performance (and leaving room for more). I guess you will not be running e85 but if you did I would suggest bumping up to 1150cc injectors. You could use the money you would spend on your SSQV. I'm currently around the power level you are seeking and I like knowing that my motor can handle much more all I have to do is ask. ECMLink + SD and you will be happy.

The way I see it, we are no longer building these cars...we are restoring them.

 

[boostadd1ct]

It costs more to do a full build, but you said yourself you want piece of mind. So if you can spend more I always suggest getting everything up to level on performance (and leaving room for more). I guess you will not be running e85 but if you did I would suggest bumping up to 1150cc injectors. You could use the money you would spend on your SSQV. I'm currently around the power level you are seeking and I like knowing that my motor can handle much more all I have to do is ask. ECMLink + SD and you will be happy.

The way I see it, we are no longer building these cars...we are restoring them.

thanks

yeah the cost is higher than i want but i need a functioning engine
ideally though id rather run stock without rebuilding with mls and arp.
still looking through classified and maybe ill find that engine thats ready to goand save more money since i wont need a rebuild.

and later down the line if I actually aim for 500whp then Ill consider building an actual "built engine" but considering that i would also need upgraded trans and such Im putting that on hold. I just hope ill be good at 400whp. Ive gotten spoiled with my past rides at 450-500

 

[T is for TURBO]

An Evo MAF would be easier, and SD is a much better option than either of those with V3.

Hell, most people never even max out a 2g MAF, and I would guess it can be had for cheaper than an EVO 8.

1G MAF = 28 lb/min
2G MAF = 50 lb/min
EVO8 MAF = 66/min

I personally like using a MAF simply because there is almost nothing you have to do to set them up in ECMLink. Once all intake leaks are sealed and the TPS and BISS are calibrated, I can have the base tune done in 15-20 minutes.

 

[turboglenn]

Things i didn't see but all else seems like good start

turbo of choice?

tuning system? recomend DSMlink/ECMlink v3

also flywheels, fidnanza is fine for FWD, but won't last under the heat and stress of AWD if really punished

for 400hp all you need is a set of ARP 2000's (oir get the L19's to not have to worry in the future)

also a felpro composite HG is fine too, i made 500 a few times on mine with no issues till the ARP regular bolts failed, now with L19/H11 studs using the same type of gasket i shredded my trans on dyno at 522 being the reading when the gear blew at 6500 RPM, pull before that was 507, and a week before i made 482 reliably and pushed it that way all week till the trans went next week on dyno... I like composite HG as a "failure point" safety feature so that a piston or head doesn't grenade, and having the head/deck checked for flatness is something you shuoodn't skip of you have either one off, it's cheap, and surfacing is too and will save you moremoney thanif you just put it on and have a failure because it wasn't checked and was warped a tad, and unless you are a machinist you don't have the quality of straight edge to check really, I AM a machinist first by hobby now it's all i cna do because of some disabiity, and in my own home shop i don't trust my tools to veryfy the head and let my engine machinnstdo that for me

 

[boost97gst]

How much does this turbo flow? 400whp on pump on even a mid size turbo requires some massaging. You will knock before 400hp unless this is a big ass turbo. If its not capable then you can run meth or e85 to get there. My vote is e85 if available. Lot simpler and very cost effective for big power

 

[Calan]

Things i didn't see but all else seems like good start

turbo of choice?

tuning system? recomend DSMlink/ECMlink v3

also flywheels....

Did you read his first post or any of this thread Glen?

 

[turboglenn]

OK ok, iadmit i skimmed in a hurry, but i didn't see a turbo, or tuning in the first post, and i double cheked after reading most of it, but hell, so much on myh mind i'd be crossingthe street and get hit by a truck and wouldn't know it till i got my bills paid sorry

 

[six40]

Not bad, I like your list. I made 397 awhp/397 ft-lbs conservatively on a 50 trim, 850cc's, rewired 255hp, fuelab AFPR, 3" TBE, 3" intake, FMIC, you know the supporting mods. Ported Evo III manifold. Stock intake manifold, stock NT TB. I too am running meth, through a single 550cc nozzle. For clutch, I am using a, ACT 2600 PP, ACT 6 puck disc, and ACT Streetlite flywheel. OEM master, slave, TOB, fork, pivot ball. Stainless clutch line. Stock '90 trans w/ 22 spline t-case, etc.

I'm on V3, with SD. I say make the switch if you can, for ~$100 you'll never have to worry about a MAF ever again. Switching is a lot easier than people think.

My engine is also in poor condition. It has 160k miles. Composite headgasket, stock headbolts torqued down to 85 ft-lbs. I've heard of guys going as high as 95-100, but I don't have the balls to do so. Compression across mine is: (4) 155 (3) 150 (2) 135 (1) 120 so it has seen batter days. The engine has the BSE, BC 272 cams, Crower springs/retainers, revised lifters.

I managed to run an 11.9 @ 118 on the conservative tune at about 22-24 PSI, in a full weight leather interior 1G with 17" rims and street tires. I'm sure with a bit more boost I can hit mid 11's. I also daily drive this car as long as there's no salt or snow on the ground.

So there's no reason you shouldn't be able to reach your power goal of 400 awhp with the mods you have.

 

[DRTredHEAD]

3g= revised lifters. Top line sells them they have larger oiler holes opposed to the pin holes in the stock lifters. Stock cams are good for whatever HP if your looking to up your redline stock cams are only good for about 6250 rpm if you plan on making power beyond that you'll want bigger cams. As far as springs and valves your only looking at an extra 4-450. Built it right build it once.

 

[boostadd1ct]

How much does this turbo flow? 400whp on pump on even a mid size turbo requires some massaging. You will knock before 400hp unless this is a big ass turbo. If its not capable then you can run meth or e85 to get there. My vote is e85 if available. Lot simpler and very cost effective for big power

its a 50 trim turbo. should cover my goals.

and im planning on meth injection already. not a fan of e85 because its not convenient enough yet.

Im only aware of 2 location that sells it. and im not a fan of going out of my way for gas(even when its cheaper 5 minutes away )

Not bad, I like your list. I made 397 awhp/397 ft-lbs conservatively on a 50 trim, 850cc's, rewired 255hp, fuelab AFPR, 3" TBE, 3" intake, FMIC, you know the supporting mods. Ported Evo III manifold. Stock intake manifold, stock NT TB. I too am running meth, through a single 550cc nozzle. For clutch, I am using a, ACT 2600 PP, ACT 6 puck disc, and ACT Streetlite flywheel. OEM master, slave, TOB, fork, pivot ball. Stainless clutch line. Stock '90 trans w/ 22 spline t-case, etc.

I'm on V3, with SD. I say make the switch if you can, for ~$100 you'll never have to worry about a MAF ever again. Switching is a lot easier than people think.

My engine is also in poor condition. It has 160k miles. Composite headgasket, stock headbolts torqued down to 85 ft-lbs. I've heard of guys going as high as 95-100, but I don't have the balls to do so. Compression across mine is: (4) 155 (3) 150 (2) 135 (1) 120 so it has seen batter days. The engine has the BSE, BC 272 cams, Crower springs/retainers, revised lifters.

I managed to run an 11.9 @ 118 on the conservative tune at about 22-24 PSI, in a full weight leather interior 1G with 17" rims and street tires. I'm sure with a bit more boost I can hit mid 11's. I also daily drive this car as long as there's no salt or snow on the ground.

So there's no reason you shouldn't be able to reach your power goal of 400 awhp with the mods you have.

did you get 397 at 22-24 psi?

 

[boost97gst]

I did a lil research, turns out a guy on here with a 5857JB pte made around 430whp on pump!! I pmd him asking how he pulled that bit of magic out of his ass.. no word yet.
Yea, your good on meth with that large of a turbo to def get to 400. 272 cams and heavy springs would be a suggestion.
Hell if you might be surprised how high you can take it on 93. Id like to see it. GL bro. Just build it strong, get the good stuff first, trust me

 

[boostadd1ct]

3g= revised lifters. Top line sells them they have larger oiler holes opposed to the pin holes in the stock lifters. Stock cams are good for whatever HP if your looking to up your redline stock cams are only good for about 6250 rpm if you plan on making power beyond that you'll want bigger cams. As far as springs and valves your only looking at an extra 4-450. Built it right build it once.

just did a quick read on that. The idea sounds good. but seems like its mostly to get rid of the lifter tick/noise. performance wise all I saw was that people saying "more lubrication cant hurt"

so ill have to think about it to see if its worth it.
unless I need a new lifters then ill get those.

yea I havent caught the bug to rev the engine high. not a fan so Sticking to stockies for now. Unless i find something about them that is enough to change my mid. (i know they help get to my goal a bit easier but I think i can get there without them without a problem.)

thanks

 

[untouchablecc]

I thought the gm maf is more problematic with temperature change? 2g seems like a better oftions that a bolt on and go with less hassle later.


I have never had a problem with the gm maf using dsmlink. I start my car the same at 0 degrees in the winter as I do in the summer. Every once in a great while I will have to calibrate the maf but im talking once or twice a year. Its very easy to calibrate in link. It takes a matter of a 10 min cruise and logging the appropriate values. If you plan to run link its very simple. choose which ever mass air you get ahold of first and cheapest. All of them will work for your goals. Nothing wrong with speed density either. If you pick up a gm mass for 20 bucks out of a junyard and how ever much the cable is for link your good too go. Sometimes a 2g mass can be had for about 30 or 40 if you know someone so its apples and oranges on that one. I let cost be your deciding factor.

As for the head. If you want to make no more then 450 you really dont need and head work beyond a stock rebuild if thats even needed. Will it help you get to your hp goal having the head work done yes.
Also 3g lifters are great and all but not needed for hp. Its a noise thing and I do not run anything topline in my engine. I have seen too many failures from there oil pumps so Im not chancing it with the lifters.

Over all your list looks sufficient and should do nicely. Good luck with that cut off, I try to remove as many tuning variables as possible but its your car(fwi they do make mufflers that look close to stock for our cars).

 

[boostadd1ct]

I thought the gm maf is more problematic with temperature change? 2g seems like a better oftions that a bolt on and go with less hassle later.


I have never had a problem with the gm maf using dsmlink. I start my car the same at 0 degrees in the winter as I do in the summer. Every once in a great while I will have to calibrate the maf but im talking once or twice a year. Its very easy to calibrate in link. It takes a matter of a 10 min cruise and logging the appropriate values. If you plan to run link its very simple. choose which ever mass air you get ahold of first and cheapest. All of them will work for your goals. Nothing wrong with speed density either. If you pick up a gm mass for 20 bucks out of a junyard and how ever much the cable is for link your good too go. Sometimes a 2g mass can be had for about 30 or 40 if you know someone so its apples and oranges on that one. I let cost be your deciding factor.

As for the head. If you want to make no more then 450 you really dont need and head work beyond a stock rebuild if thats even needed. Will it help you get to your hp goal having the head work done yes.
Also 3g lifters are great and all but not needed for hp. Its a noise thing and I do not run anything topline in my engine. I have seen too many failures from there oil pumps so Im not chancing it with the lifters.

Over all your list looks sufficient and should do nicely. Good luck with that cut off, I try to remove as many tuning variables as possible but its your car(fwi they do make mufflers that look close to stock for our cars).

yea im really leaning toward SD but not sure if its worth having for 150 (bolt on kit)

and in cali looking AND sounding like stock is key. no point in looking like stock and car gets DB tested or pulled over for noise.

 

[untouchablecc]

and in cali looking AND sounding like stock is key. no point in looking like stock and car gets DB tested or pulled over for noise

I have 3 resonators on a full 3inch stainless exhaust(no idea who makes it,prob ebay). It doesn't get much quieter then that. You just like your cutoff its okay you must of owned and SRT 4 in a past life haha

 

[Calan]

just did a quick read on that. The idea sounds good. but seems like its mostly to get rid of the lifter tick/noise. performance wise all I saw was that people saying "more lubrication cant hurt"

so ill have to think about it to see if its worth it.

Spend the $99 and get the lifters. Your old stock ones probably need to be replaced any way.