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K-series swaps?

sonicc

Probationary Member
14
2
Jun 25, 2021
St. Louis, Missouri
I tried searching around a little bit, but I'm not seeing much discussion on K swaps into 1g or 2g. Is it just too difficult to get Honda parts to fit? But if people are putting LS engines, how difficult could it be to put another 4banger?

The point of starting this thread is to see if anyone has some bookmarked discussions on this subject or any information.


Now the obligatory WHY WOULD YOU DO SUCH A THING?
1. K series are plentiful, reliable, and take well to modding.
2. I have a K20, transmission, and ECU sitting in garage :)
3. You can still find 2g cars with auto or blown engine for $2-3k in decent shape (even in today's market, AKA COVID economy in case someone comes across this thread in 20 years while researching COVID for their history class)
4. Finding a 4g63t that hasn't been f00ked 6 ways from Sunday is near impossible or too expensive nowadays
 

Canadian_CD9A

Proven Member
748
393
Feb 10, 2012
Winnipeg, MB_Canada
The 4G63 is likely the best 4 cylinder engine of all time in terms of brute strength and power per dollar. It's much, much easier (and cheaper) to find and build a 4G63, compared to putting together a whole K-swap and doing the conversion. DSMers are notoriously cheap, but everything we need is already around, just buy it and bolt it on. There's literally no reason to do it unless you absolutely wanted a 6 speed.
 

sonicc

Probationary Member
14
2
Jun 25, 2021
St. Louis, Missouri
The 4G63 is likely the best 4 cylinder engine of all time in terms of brute strength and power per dollar. It's much, much easier (and cheaper) to find and build a 4G63, compared to putting together a whole K-swap and doing the conversion. DSMers are notoriously cheap, but everything we need is already around, just buy it and bolt it on. There's literally no reason to do it unless you absolutely wanted a 6 speed.

See #4

for the price of a running 4g63t, you can buy an entire swap (K20 engine, ecu, transmission, harness).
 

streetraceboi

Moderator
818
348
Sep 4, 2002
San Antonio, Texas
See #4

for the price of a running 4g63t, you can buy an entire swap (K20 engine, ecu, transmission, harness).
Theyre easy to find. And you can buy a running 4g63 for around $800-1000. A built bottom end for $1500-2k. Fully built long block maybe $3-5k depending on the internals. I haven't seen an entire k swap go for the price of a bone stock 4g63....EVER

I tried searching around a little bit, but I'm not seeing much discussion on K swaps into 1g or 2g. Is it just too difficult to get Honda parts to fit? But if people are putting LS engines, how difficult could it be to put another 4banger?

The point of starting this thread is to see if anyone has some bookmarked discussions on this subject or any information.


Now the obligatory WHY WOULD YOU DO SUCH A THING?
1. K series are plentiful, reliable, and take well to modding.
2. I have a K20, transmission, and ECU sitting in garage :)
3. You can still find 2g cars with auto or blown engine for $2-3k in decent shape (even in today's market, AKA COVID economy in case someone comes across this thread in 20 years while researching COVID for their history class)
4. Finding a 4g63t that hasn't been f00ked 6 ways from Sunday is near impossible or too expensive nowadays
And just to save you some time. Probably NO ONE in here is going to want to drop a Honda engine into a DSM. This is a DSM forum. NOT a Honda forum. Youre better off going to a Honda forum to ask this question...
 

Canadian_CD9A

Proven Member
748
393
Feb 10, 2012
Winnipeg, MB_Canada
See #4

for the price of a running 4g63t, you can buy an entire swap (K20 engine, ecu, transmission, harness).

A running 6-bolt 4G63T is less than $2,000. That kind of money does not buy a great K20Z3/K20A2 swap. Then factor in custom axles, wiring, shifter, header, exhaust, management, cooling, fuel, fabrication, figuring out AWD, and you're in for another $5,000 minimum. Buying all of the OEM parts isn't even half the battle, and for what? You would have the stock power of an untuned 4G63T.
 

sonicc

Probationary Member
14
2
Jun 25, 2021
St. Louis, Missouri
This is a DSM forum. NOT a Honda forum. Youre better off going to a Honda forum to ask this question...
Well...gee...it's a DSM forum, not a 4G63 forum. And I'm not looking for opinions, I'm looking for technical info why this can or can't be done. You know, something more quantifiable than iTs a hOnDuH eNgInE. So if you're not going to contribute, please see yourself out.

A running 6-bolt 4G63T is less than $2,000.
Maybe in the land of bagged milk and maple syrup, but not here in US.

But for the sake of simplicity, lets ignore the cost.
 

streetraceboi

Moderator
818
348
Sep 4, 2002
San Antonio, Texas
Well...gee...it's a DSM forum, not a 4G63 forum. And I'm not looking for opinions, I'm looking for technical info why this can or can't be done. You know, something more quantifiable than iTs a hOnDuH eNgInE. So if you're not going to contribute, please see yourself out.


Maybe in the land of bagged milk and maple syrup, but not here in US.
Youre trying to put a drive train that a DSM group has nothing to do with into a DSM. Go to Honda forum...

Well...gee...it's a DSM forum, not a 4G63 forum. And I'm not looking for opinions, I'm looking for technical info why this can or can't be done. You know, something more quantifiable than iTs a hOnDuH eNgInE. So if you're not going to contribute, please see yourself out.


Maybe in the land of bagged milk and maple syrup, but not here in US.

But for the sake of simplicity, lets ignore the cost.
You must be logged in to view this image or video.

HERE YA GO!

And if you want the link.... 1990 Talon Tsi 4g63 Engine for Sale in San Antonio, TX - OfferUp
 

sonicc

Probationary Member
14
2
Jun 25, 2021
St. Louis, Missouri
Youre trying to put a drive train that a DSM group has nothing to do with into a DSM. Go to Honda forum...
You could apply the same analogy in Honda forum: You're trying to put a Honda drivetrain in a car that honda group has nothing to do with.

Ok, sure, that's a great deal.

but let me water this down: what if I REALLY WANT a reliable engine that revs to 9k and makes braaaap noises in my eclipse and can take boost?
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
9,011
4,887
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
Boy the whole thing sounds like a HUGE headache. Honda and Mitsubishi don't just plug and play.
There is a first for everything so you may be the first. I have not ever heard of a Honda in a DSM but keep a thread about the swap up so all can see if it was expensive, cheap, worth the time and effort or maybe a bad idea. Lets see what you can do!

Ok, sure, that's a great deal.

but let me water this down: what if I REALLY WANT a reliable engine that revs to 9k and makes braaaap noises in my eclipse and can take boost?
You would want any of my 4g63 powered DSM's then. They go further than 9k and more than 40 lbs of boost. :thumb:
 

sonicc

Probationary Member
14
2
Jun 25, 2021
St. Louis, Missouri
Boy the whole thing sounds like a HUGE headache. Honda and Mitsubishi don't just plug and play.
There is a first for everything so you may be the first. I have not ever heard of a Honda in a DSM but keep a thread about the swap up so all can see if it was expensive, cheap, worth the time and effort or maybe a bad idea. Lets see what you can do!
To be honest, at some point there was a first for LS swap in anything, or VQ swap in something, or K swap in a MR2, K swap in RX8, K swap in VW, etc, etc.
So the question is why hasn't there been a K swap in DSM yet?

You would want any of my 4g63 powered DSM's then. They go further than 9k and more than 40 lbs of boost. :thumb:
But 'reliable' ? LOL

I've owned a 99 Eclipse GSX, I know what they are and what they're not. And I've also owned several K-powered Hondas/Acuras.
 
Last edited:

streetraceboi

Moderator
818
348
Sep 4, 2002
San Antonio, Texas
Ok, sure, that's a great deal.

but let me water this down: what if I REALLY WANT a reliable engine that revs to 9k and makes braaaap noises in my eclipse and can take boost?

How bout you try out the swap..and start a build thread here? You can then have all the brap braps you want LOL The price of that motor isn't a GREAT deal. Its a common price. Especially for the mileage it has. You can get one for cheaper with more miles. Hence my original price range.
 

sonicc

Probationary Member
14
2
Jun 25, 2021
St. Louis, Missouri
How bout you try out the swap..and start a build thread here? You can then have all the brap braps you want LOL
That's why I'm doing the homework now and hoping there has been some serious technical discussion on this and not just 'Honda engines don't belong in DSM' from purists.
I can't be the only one who was thought of this.
 

streetraceboi

Moderator
818
348
Sep 4, 2002
San Antonio, Texas
That's why I'm doing the homework now and hoping there has been some serious technical discussion on this vs. 'Honda engines don't belong in DSM'
Well they don't LOL Theres a guy in here with a build thread putting an LS into a 2g. A lot more difficult. You can probably find someone to make you an adapter plate to mate the k series onto a 4g63 trans. As far as the whole drivetrain swap...that sounds like a headache.
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
9,011
4,887
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
To be honest, at some point there was a first for LS swap in anything, or VQ swap in something, or K swap in a MR2, K swap in RX8, K swap in VW, etc, etc.
So the question is why hasn't there been a K swap in DSM yet?


But 'reliable' ? LOL

I've owned a 99 Eclipse GSX, I know what they are and what they're not. And I've also owned several K-powered Hondas/Acuras.
I do all of the work on my stuff myself so they are very reliable. I can't trust anyone else to work on them. When you do it yourself, you know that it was done right. Any 30 year old car will have a problem now and then. My ex-wifes 96 Impala SS blew a heater hose plastic connection last night. That car is a trophy winning car but it doesn't keep it "reliable", its OLD. :)
 

streetraceboi

Moderator
818
348
Sep 4, 2002
San Antonio, Texas
But how big of a headache? Because an LS in eclipse body is a completely different ballgame vs another 4 cyl engine

But how big of a headache? Because an LS in eclipse body is a completely different ballgame vs another 4 cyl engine
Noone knows...I don't think it has been done. So it would be your own drawing board. My Honda buddy tries to talk to me about it all the time. I ignore it. I see it as pointless. But hey...if you want to tackle it. By all means...
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
9,011
4,887
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
I would start off saying just mating the AWD parts to a different drivetrain would be the biggest headache. When you swap to just a RWD, it isn't hard to make things match up but when you try to do all 4 wheels, it sounds time consuming (but if it is your goal, always worth the time) and VERY custom. Not that it can't be done, but nobody here has ever talked about it in the time I have been here.
 

Canadian_CD9A

Proven Member
748
393
Feb 10, 2012
Winnipeg, MB_Canada
Ok, sure, that's a great deal.

but let me water this down: what if I REALLY WANT a reliable engine that revs to 9k and makes braaaap noises in my eclipse and can take boost?

Do you know nothing about the 4G63? It's just as reliable, will go 9,000 all day, and is much friendlier for boost than the K. I don't know what you expect by posting here.
If you want to spend $20,000 to make the same power with a K20 in an Eclipse that takes $5,000 with a 4G63, go ahead. We've answered the question as to why you don't see K20 swaps in DSMs - it makes no sense to triple the investment and spend a couple hundred hours to arrive at the exact same starting point. This is like asking why there are no Coyote-swapped C5/C6 Corvettes. Start with a $2,000 Civic instead of a $2,000 DSM and maybe you'll get where want to go easily.
 

sonicc

Probationary Member
14
2
Jun 25, 2021
St. Louis, Missouri
I would start off saying just mating the AWD parts to a different drivetrain would be the biggest headache. When you swap to just a RWD, it isn't hard to make things match up but when you try to do all 4 wheels, it sounds time consuming (but if it is your goal, always worth the time) and VERY custom. Not that it can't be done, but nobody here has ever talked about it in the time I have been here.
Sorry, just to clarify I would be keeping it FWD

Do you know nothing about the 4G63? It's just as reliable
It's not. I'm sorry, but that's just B.S. And yes I have experience with both engines.
 

Canadian_CD9A

Proven Member
748
393
Feb 10, 2012
Winnipeg, MB_Canada
Sorry, just to clarify I would be keeping it FWD


It's not. I'm sorry, but that's just B.S. And yes I have experience with both engines.

I'm just convinced you're here to troll, then. If there was one thing you were stuck on, sure, ask away, but you are asking how to do the swap before buying anything because you have no clue how to put the K into a car that nobody has used before. There's no reason to use a DSM for this and you clearly know more about both powertrains than everyone else here, so do the swap and report back. I bet you don't.
 

sonicc

Probationary Member
14
2
Jun 25, 2021
St. Louis, Missouri
I'm just convinced you're here to troll, then. If there was one thing you were stuck on, sure, ask away, but you are asking how to do the swap before buying anything because you have no clue how to put the K into a car that nobody has used before. There's no reason to use a DSM for this and you clearly know more about both powertrains than everyone else here, so do the swap and report back. I bet you don't.
yeah blah blah blah there's no reason to swap x engine into y car ever because x car's stock engine is so much better than y engine. It's the age old purist/fan boi argument. Please go.

If you love your 4G63T, that's great no one's making you give it up. I'm not selling you anything here. I'm asking for information from folks that have tried something else. I'm doing preliminary research to see what the technical challenges are and going to base my decision on that. Not sure why it's so hard to understand?
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
9,011
4,887
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
Ask the boys over HERE what they think. That group would be a better place to ask.
 

Canadian_CD9A

Proven Member
748
393
Feb 10, 2012
Winnipeg, MB_Canada
yeah blah blah blah there's no reason to swap x engine into y car ever because x car's stock engine is so much better than y engine
Please go.

If you love your 4G63T, that's great no one's making you give it up. I'm asking for information from folks that have tried something else. I'm doing preliminary research to see what the technical challenges are and going to base my decision on that. Not sure why it's so hard to understand?

"Preliminary research" for people who know what they're doing is having an engine and a car in front of them and finding a way to make it work. Conventional knowledge of K swaps tells you what the car needs, and we all know what the K needs to run and drive. The DSM is any other FWD-based car, just with less exhaust clearance at the firewall. Wiring, mounts and axles are all a puzzle that anyone with know-how can figure out. If you aren't willing to trailblaze and don't have the technical knowledge to make it work, use something easier.

A friend of mine is putting a K20 in his Dodge Neon. Great idea, because they have similar engine layouts and the stock Neon engine is a dud. It's just a matter of centering it, mounting it up, and putting the puzzle together from there. Another friend of mine (who put a K20A into an EM1) put a VQ in a Sentra without a how-to guide, and then decided to put a VQ in a Neon for a low-buck race project. He just got the car running and driving. Know how he did it? By having both, testing the fit and figuring out the way. He would have failed immediately if his first step was to ask an unanswerable question. Nothing can make up for a lack of skill other than getting your hands dirty, failing, and trying again.

The short answer is that it will work. There is no reason why it won't.
The long answer is that it will work if you have the money, skills and dedication, but it's not cost-effective and not the ideal platform.
 

sonicc

Probationary Member
14
2
Jun 25, 2021
St. Louis, Missouri
Ask the boys over HERE what they think. That group would be a better place to ask.

That's a engine specific forum.

"Preliminary research" for people who know what they're doing is having an engine and a car in front of them and finding a way to make it work. Conventional knowledge of K swaps tells you what the car needs, and we all know what the K needs to run and drive. The DSM is any other FWD-based car, just with less exhaust clearance at the firewall. Wiring, mounts and axles are all a puzzle that anyone with know-how can figure out. If you aren't willing to trailblaze and don't have the technical knowledge to make it work, use something easier.
It can also save you a lot of trouble, money, and time to learn from other people's attempts (or mistakes). That's why internet is great. So you can get an idea before you start a project vs having a garage full of parts/cars and then realizing "shit...this doesn't work".
"Preliminary research"
And you're making a looooooooooooot of assumptions just because I want to use a Honda engine in DSM LOL
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
9,011
4,887
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
And might I remind you that you just joined today and any other forum would probably not even allow you to come into their group with the attitude that is being had and post without first reviewing and approving your posts. This is the very best DSM forum there is but it isnt Honda related at all.
Marty
 
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