1G Is Timing Tricky On 1990 Eclipse Turbo

[Bonnie90Eclipse]

I took my 1990 Eclipse Turbo to the shop, because it wasn't running too well (hard to keep it from stalling all the time). One of the things that my mechanic said that the timing was off by 15 degrees, so he adjusted it.

The shop is not a DSM shop and I don't think that they are very familiar with the Eclipse, so I'm wondering if it's easy to screw up a timing adjustment for this car or did my mechanic probably do OK? The shop specializes in imports and performance cars (Ferrari, Porsche, etc.), so I would think they would know what they're doing ... I've just heard so many things about the Eclipse being finicky if you're not familiar with them.

BTW, the car is still not right and I'm going to have to get a rebuild ... which is a "whole 'nother kettle of fish"! (awful cylinder compression).

Thanks for any advice or other comments!

 

[curt-s]

He must mean ignition timing and, no, it's not hard to screw that part up or even for it to wander over if the bolts holding the CAS on aren't tight.

There's nothing particularly special or out of the ordinary for DSM ignition/mechanical timing. The biggest thing is them looking up/knowing how to ground the timing connector adjustment connector, but it's literally in the engine bay on the firewall. 15 seconds of googling gets you the answer.

That locks the ignition timing at 5 degrees BTDC on the ECU. You then loosen the two nuts holding the CAS on, set up your timing light, and rotate the CAS until you hit the 5BTDC mark on the lower timing cover visible by the timing light strobe. If you don't believe him, have him do it right in front of you. It's a 30 second job.

 

[Bonnie90Eclipse]

The biggest thing is them looking up/knowing how to ground the timing connector adjustment connector, but it's literally in the engine bay on the firewall. 15 seconds of googling gets you the answer.

I've read about that grounding in other threads ... I just don't know if he knew about it.

If you don't believe him, have him do it right in front of you. It's a 30 second job.

It's not that I don't believe him, I just want to be sure that he knows what he's doing. I'll have to ask him

Thanks for the info!

 

[DSMPT]

my mechanic said that the timing was off by 15 degrees

What's the history of the car? You just bought it recently or you were driving and it just started running bad? You should provide us more details with pics or videos.

Besides what Curt mentioned above, some people say 15 degree off when the mechanical timing is off by two cam gear teeth since one cam gear tooth is 7.5 degree on a DOHC 4g6 engine.

Anyways you should ask the mechanic what timing he meant by 15 degree off, mechanical valve timing or ignition timing and what exactly he has done.

 

[curt-s]

True, @DSMPT does make a good point. If the tensioner was loose it's possible the belt slipped. To repair that correctly, it's a pretty involved job, so an indicator would be how much did they charge?

To properly fix the timing belt aspect, you'd be removing all accessory belts, harmonic damper, side motor mount, and the timing covers. Realign cam gears to lower crank and oil pump sprockets, then putting everything back together again. That's a couple hours of work, at minimum, for one not well versed in DSM.

If they charged you an hour's worth or so (usually minimum shop time), then that's only ignition timing.

But asking is easy too

 

[We're on Boost]

The shop is not a DSM shop and I don't think that they are very familiar with the Eclipse, so I'm wondering if it's easy to screw up a timing adjustment for this car or did my mechanic probably do OK? The shop specializes in imports and performance cars (Ferrari, Porsche, etc.), so I would think they would know what they're doing ...

Hmm, by any chance was that Authentic Motorcars in Redmond?

 

[Bonnie90Eclipse]

Hmm, by any chance was that Authentic Motorcars in Redmond?

No, it's Import Autosport in Anacortes.

What's the history of the car? You just bought it recently or you were driving and it just started running bad? You should provide us more details with pics or videos.

You want history, here you go (I don't have any pictures right now ... I assume you meant pictures of the engine):
I bought the car in 1999 and it was in pretty good shape then. Other than the fact that the kid I bought it from had it lowered way too much. Several years later (after getting tired of such a stiff ride) I had it raised a bit. I took pretty good care of it with proper maintenance (oil changes, etc). I didn't drive it a lot, but enough to keep it happy. It helped that we lived 7 miles from town, so every trip into town gave it a bit of a workout. Until I moved here 5 years ago. Now it's less than 3 miles into town and I drive it even less.

Currently it has 138K miles on it. The last oil change was 4 years ago at 137K, although I *do* add oil when it's low. I know, I've been bad. =0(

So, it was on one of my trips into town that it suddenly started running bad. Out of the blue, just starting it in the garage and backing out. I could barely keep it running ... I had to keep it in neutral so I could rev it up a bit to keep it from stalling. I sat in the driveway for a bit doing this and it finally started running a little more smoothly ... but as soon as I drove away it started in again. Then, I had to keep pushing in the clutch and revving it ... by the time I got our of our neighborhood and onto the main road into town, it was running much better (but still not perfect).

Since then, though, I can't even drive it ... driving it to the shop (and back) was hell (the shop is about 8 miles from home). Next time I take it to the shop to get it worked on, I'm getting it towed.

Besides what Curt mentioned above, some people say 15 degree off when the mechanical timing is off by two cam gear teeth since one cam gear tooth is 7.5 degree on a DOHC 4g6 engine.

Anyways you should ask the mechanic what timing he meant by 15 degree off, mechanical valve timing or ignition timing and what exactly he has done.

Here is what they wrote on my invoice about the work they did when trying to troubleshoot the problem:

Inspected for cause of poor runnability, inspected tune components
(ok) Checked base timing and found off by 15 degrees, adjusted
and adjusted idle. Found a slight improvement. Checked
compression and found cyl#1 @ 110psa, cyl#2@80psi, cyl#3@105
psa, cyl#4@108 psi, added oilto cyl. #2 and came up to 90 psi, then
after running came back down. Performed leakdown test,cyl #1
35.1%,cyl #2 65%, cyl #3 42%, cyl#4 35%, will require engine
rebuild or replacement

Charged me $350 (said that it took longer to troubleshoot, but he was only going to charge me for part of that time ... I don't remember how much per/hour they charge).
So, as you can see, the invoice says "base timing", which I think is ignition timing (please correct me if I'm wrong about that).

I looked at trying to find a used engine but forget that option ... everything I was finding were either scams or way too expensive! Plus, they would have to checkout any engine we decided to use, which would eat up some hours there too. I decided that having them do a rebuild was probably the best option. Maybe once they dig into it more, they'll find it's something that's relatively easy to fix.

I know that all this is going to cost more than the car is worth. But I *do* like my car (with its cool color-changing paint job) and buying a used car will probably cost as much or more. I don't want to go through the hassle of finding and buying another car.

 

[dwb]

Not sure if some of the basics were also verified - boost leak test, mechanical timing, look for CEL codes, check base fuel pressure, etc.
When was the timing belt replaced last? Both mileage and age. IMO, it sounds like your timing belt could have jumped a tooth if it happened out of the blue.

 

[Bonnie90Eclipse]

Not sure if some of the basics were also verified - boost leak test, mechanical timing, look for CEL codes, check base fuel pressure, etc.

The purpose of taking my car to the shop was so that (hopefully) he could isolate the problem and make it at least drive-able, while I figured out what to do about it. So, some of those basics were probably not looked at ... he thought he had made it better, and maybe he had, when he took it for a test drive after adjusting the idle and timing. But as it turns out, it was still pretty awful when I drove it back home.

When was the timing belt replaced last? Both mileage and age. IMO, it sounds like your timing belt could have jumped a tooth if it happened out of the blue.

Digging through old records, I see that in 03/2008 the timing belt was changed, mileage was 134K. I'm trying to find some more recent records. At the time I had the last oil change (4 years ago, mileage 137K) I also had some other work done. I don't know if that other work included a timing belt or not. This was all done at another shop, not the one I took my recent problems to. I just read something that said the maximum life of a timing belt is 7 years. I don't know if that's true or not, and if I didn't get it done at the last service (4 years ago), then I'm DEFINTELY due for a new one.