Is running speed density friendly to someone new to tuning?

[ty92dsm]

I have been reading up on the advantages of rrunning speed density and I would really like to do it. The only problem is it seems a little intimidating to me being that I am a beginner into the tuning world. So I was wondering if you guys think I should get the basics of link down first and then try it out or just start out running speed density? Basically I would really like to get rid of the stock 1g mass air and I am wondering which way to go would be the best.
Thank you in advance!

 

[91stocker]

I went from a safc to speed density with Jackal. I love the layout and features of Jackal. It has base maps supplied so all you need to do is set injector size and your running. All the fine tuning can be done from there. After using Jackal i would never tune a 1g with anything else again. O and the new version is only $20.

Heres a link if you'd like to check it out
DS-MAP - Index

Theres a complete how to for installation and for beginner tuning.

 

[wishin4nX]

Rock a 2g maf if the only thing you dislike is the 1g maf. If you want NO maf,then go speed density.

 

[johneclipse]

currently tuning my car with speed density via dsmlink. Its not that bad once you get used to using the tables instead of sliders. also you can run your stock mas and get 90% of the tuning done for you automatically.

 

[DSMTyson]

Yeah, I'm just using a 2G MAF until I start hitting fuel cut.

Anyone know when a 2G MAF starts to get over run?

 

[donniekak]

Yeah, I'm just using a 2G MAF until I start hitting fuel cut.

Anyone know when a 2G MAF starts to get over run and hit fuel cut?

Around 50 lbs/min. Fuel cut is something different than maf over run. You can remove the fuel cut code completely from an ecu, and still over run the maf when it has reached the limit of flow it can measure.

 

[91stocker]

2G = 2700 Hz MAX at .1153 Hz per liter = 311 liters per second

The 2g MAS will become overrun between 2700-3200hz depending on MAS, in the ballpark of 50lb/min.

...Damn beat me to it, what he said haha

 

[ty92dsm]

Thank you for all of the replies guys

currently tuning my car with speed density via dsmlink. Its not that bad once you get used to using the tables instead of sliders. also you can run your stock mas and get 90% of the tuning done for you automatically.

How exactly do you go about doing this?

 

[DSMTyson]

Around 50 lbs/min. Fuel cut is something different than maf over run. You can remove the fuel cut code completely from an ecu, and still over run the maf when it has reached the limit of flow it can measure.

Thanks, I shouldn't have to worry about it with my sleeper 16g then.

 

[91stocker]

Maf is junk imo. Terrible placement, maybe a gm maf in blow through would be more efficient, but a restriction that large pre turbo kills flow. A member on here that pushed a 16g over 430whp logged a 5% power increase from losing his maf. Also gained another .5lbs/min air flow from a proper sized intake pipe.

 

[ty92dsm]

Maf is junk imo. Terrible placement, maybe a gm maf in blow through would be more efficient, but a restriction that large pre turbo kills flow. A member on here that pushed a 16g over 430whp logged a 5% power increase from losing his maf. Also gained another .5lbs/min air flow from a proper sized intake pipe.

That is why I would like to go with speed density because there is no restriction

 

[cantgo2fast]

Do you already have link? If so mess around with getting the fuel trims right, make some pulls and dial in the AFR those are pretty simple things to do and will let you familiarize yourself with the general layout and how changing something actually effects the car. Then switch to speed density and you'll have a shorter learning curve.

 

[ty92dsm]

Do you already have link? If so mess around with getting the fuel trims right, make some pulls and dial in the AFR those are pretty simple things to do and will let you familiarize yourself with the general layout and how changing something actually effects the car. Then switch to speed density and you'll have a shorter learning curve.

Yes I do have v3 lite...so you think keeping 1g MAS and learning the basics first would be a good idea and then make the switch

 

[johneclipse]

Thank you for all of the replies guys



How exactly do you go about doing this?

you just wire in your SD sensors. leave the mas plugged in. drive around on a log. then run the sdcombinedratio{i think thats the right one...} tool via link and it sets the table up based off the mas signals.

 

[ty92dsm]

you just wire in your SD sensors. leave the mas plugged in. drive around on a log. then run the sdcombinedratio{i think thats the right one...} tool via link and it sets the table up based off the mas signals.

Alright cool thanks a lot I will try that out

 

[the_mork]

Get the car tuned perfectly and with good form (use the proper adjustments to fix the proper problems instead of doing what just works) and then dialing in SD will be stupidly easy. A well tuned car running link should literally be able to move between SD and MAF transparently to the point where you can't tell which you're using.

The restriction of the MAF also isn't nearly as much as you think unless you are very close to maxing out your setup. That isn't to say that there is no restriction but the large changes you see in high power setups wont show up in the butt dyno most of the time because there are usually much larger and more important restrictions in your setup.

Also please don't consider using a GM MAF in blowthrough. They aren't accurate that way and SD is just as nice with about the same investment. If you do want to use a GM MAF then use it in drawthrough.

TL;DR - Get your car perfectly tuned then switch if you still want to. SD is really nice, but with a properly tuned MAF 99% of the time you wont be able to tell the difference.

 

[ziggo0]

Get the car tuned perfectly and with good form (use the proper adjustments to fix the proper problems instead of doing what just works) and then dialing in SD will be stupidly easy. A well tuned car running link should literally be able to move between SD and MAF transparently to the point where you can't tell which you're using.

The restriction of the MAF also isn't nearly as much as you think unless you are very close to maxing out your setup. That isn't to say that there is no restriction but the large changes you see in high power setups wont show up in the butt dyno most of the time because there are usually much larger and more important restrictions in your setup.

Also please don't consider using a GM MAF in blowthrough. They aren't accurate that way and SD is just as nice with about the same investment. If you do want to use a GM MAF then use it in drawthrough.

TL;DR - Get your car perfectly tuned then switch if you still want to. SD is really nice, but with a properly tuned MAF 99% of the time you wont be able to tell the difference.

If blow through on a gm maf is so bad then why does 95% of the people who have a gm maf setup use it that way? I've honestly never seen 1 dsm with a draw through gm maf setup - just sayin.

 

[Calan]

If blow through on a gm maf is so bad then why does 95% of the people who have a gm maf setup use it that way? I've honestly never seen 1 dsm with a draw through gm maf setup - just sayin.

Because the only reason people use a GM MAF these days is so they can vent the BOV.

Now that you mention it though, I can't remember seeing a GM MAF in draw through either.

 

[DSM_munky_man]

I have a buddy that uses it draw through. Basically just replaced stock with it

 

[the_mork]

If blow through on a gm maf is so bad then why does 95% of the people who have a gm maf setup use it that way? I've honestly never seen 1 dsm with a draw through gm maf setup - just sayin.

Because there isn't any reason to use a GM MAF anymore, and the old reason used to be so that you could vent your bov.

I'm just generally prejudiced against them because they don't have much of a place under the hood of a DSM anymore since an evo maf is easier and just as effective for draw through and SD is better for any purpose in which you would have wanted blowthrough anyway.

 

[ty92dsm]

But as far as I know the 1g mass air basically is junk right? So when you say use a mass air to get a good tune set up are you saying I would be ok leaving the 1g on there??
thanks for all the replies

 

[91stocker]

The 1g maf is junk, but its fine for light mods. You can leave it on there to get started and should be good up to around 30lbs/min.

 

[ziggo0]

Because there isn't any reason to use a GM MAF anymore, and the old reason used to be so that you could vent your bov.

I'm just generally prejudiced against them because they don't have much of a place under the hood of a DSM anymore since an evo maf is easier and just as effective for draw through and SD is better for any purpose in which you would have wanted blowthrough anyway.

Yeah I guess I can see that. The only reason I ask is because it works pretty well for me - then again - the condition I got my car in had only the GM MAF/MAF-T - the stock 2g maf was hacked to hell.

 

[ty92dsm]

The 1g maf is junk, but its fine for light mods. You can leave it on there to get started and should be good up to around 30lbs/min.

What is the calculation to find what psi would be 30lb/min on a 16g?

 

[91stocker]

I dont believe there is one. You can convert cfm to lbs/min or reverse depending on which you know. Psi is relative, every car is different. The same turbo might flow 20lbs/min at 15psi on one motor and 22lbs/min at 15psi on another. Your logs will give you all the info you need.

On another note 30lbs/min on a 16g is a decent number. It will have to work a bit to reach it.