2G Interesting sound coming from timing side of motor

[aydenarcher07]

Hi all! Still pretty new to the DSM platform in general, but I’ve already learned so much just by reading through all of these forums. Lots of good knowledge to be had. That being said, I’ve had a rather concerning noise develop from my car.

Just as some background, it’s a 97 TSI AWD, rebuilt motor with mostly stock internals, nice head with some upgraded springs, 272 cams, a 16g turbo and some fueling work. It’s a fun little street car and I love it so much which is why I figured I’d try and get some help from people more experienced than I.

Now 3 days ago, I changed the oil. This was the first oil change I’ve done in my ownership, as I bought the car around a month ago. The oil looked fine, maybe just a tad bit low, like .2 quarts low, but that could also just be me over analyzing everything. Put new 10w-30 synthetic in it, and it started right up. No noise, no anything out of the ordinary. Now the day after I changed the oil, I decided to have a little fun with it and open it up on a really long straight road. I let the car rev out to 7500 before I shifted. At this point, nothing out of the ordinary. 10 minutes of normal light and easy driving later, and I hear from the drivers side of the car what I almost thought was a rod knock. But then I slow to a stop and it goes away. I accelerate again, and it happens, but then goes away once I shift into 2nd at around 3k rpms. Once in 3rd or 4th, I can give the car gas and the knock doesn’t happen.

The balance shaft has not been deleted which has me wondering if that could be an issue. I’m not sure how much we can trust the oil pressure gauge that came factory on our cars, but it was showing solid pressure every time I’ve done a pull. Below, I’ll attach a video of the sound. I apologize for the poor angle, I was recording by myself. This was also done with the car warmed up. I appreciate any replies!

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One last thing I forgot to mention in my original post, the reason I'm struggling so much to diagnose this is because I've experienced rod knock before on the Kia in the background of the video. Obviously the motor was replaced, but I knew from the moment a sound started that it was rod knock. It came from deep within the engine bay and was incredibly consistent with the idle and rpms. My sound is coming from up top around the timing side, not from down where the bearings are.

 

[97egl]

Check that the bolts on the cam gears are tight. The belt looks like it is flexing at an angle when you rev it and loose cam gears can cause knocking like noises

 

[aydenarcher07]

Check that the bolts on the cam gears are tight. The belt looks like it is flexing at an angle when you rev it and loose cam gears can cause knocking like noises

Thank you for the quick response. I'm about to get home, so when I get back I'll most definitely check that.

Alright so I got to the car, didn’t even bring out my ratchet to check tightness before I noticed some gouges on the cam gears themselves. Also, not sure how tight the belt should be but it didn’t feel that tight. I’ll post pictures of what I saw.

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[pauleyman]

I concur. That belt should not move like that.

 

[aydenarcher07]

I concur. That belt should not move like that.

For sure. I'll definitely give that a look. Do you think the cam gear bolts being loose could possibly cause the marks on the cam gears that I posted pictures of? I'd imagine the force from the gears rotating so fast and being loose could cause the belt to walk a little, and the gears to move and hit something, hence that knocking sound.

 

[97egl]

For sure. I'll definitely give that a look. Do you think the cam gear bolts being loose could possibly cause the marks on the cam gears that I posted pictures of? I'd imagine the force from the gears rotating so fast and being loose could cause the belt to walk a little, and the gears to move and hit something, hence that knocking sound.

Those are not gouges. Those are the marks for lining up the gears when replacing the timing belt.

Check the bolts. They should be 17mm unless someone has replaced them with different bolts.

 

[pauleyman]

For sure. I'll definitely give that a look. Do you think the cam gear bolts being loose could possibly cause the marks on the cam gears that I posted pictures of? I'd imagine the force from the gears rotating so fast and being loose could cause the belt to walk a little, and the gears to move and hit something, hence that knocking sound.

I agree with above posters. Look like timing marks. Check the bolts. You're already there.

 

[jesse12345]

Along with what others have said, The next thing I'd check is the tensioner I've had them go bad and create a knocking like noise and the belt starts to slap.

 

[dwb]

I can't hear the sound too well in your video. Could just be HLAs. Maybe the PO was using heavier weight oil?
However, don't overlook what others here are telling you. All sound advice.
Did the PO tell you when the last time the timing belt was changed? Not miles necessarily, but age. If you don't know, you should plan to replace that ASAP since it's an interference engine.
I also recommend installing an upper timing belt cover to keep any debris (and 10mm sockets) out, and potentially saving you from having much bigger issues.

 

[aydenarcher07]

I can't hear the sound too well in your video. Could just be HLAs. Maybe the PO was using heavier weight oil?
However, don't overlook what others here are telling you. All sound advice.
Did the PO tell you when the last time the timing belt was changed? Not miles necessarily, but age. If you don't know, you should plan to replace that ASAP since it's an interference engine.
I also recommend installing an upper timing belt cover to keep any debris (and 10mm sockets) out, and potentially saving you from having much bigger issues.

Yeah man, all good advice! I’m also wondering if he was running heavier oil. I just forgot to ask. I do run an upper timing cover, I just had it off so I could hear the sound a little bit better. I’m going to order a new timing belt and tensioner when I get off work tonight, and I plan on doing everything else mentioned.

 

[dwb]

Yeah man, all good advice! I’m also wondering if he was running heavier oil. I just forgot to ask. I do run an upper timing cover, I just had it off so I could hear the sound a little bit better. I’m going to order a new timing belt and tensioner when I get off work tonight, and I plan on doing everything else mentioned.

Cool. While you're in there you should do the waterpump, idler, and tensioner pulleys. If you have a balance belt, replace that and it's tensioner pulley. Timing belt and balance belt should be replaced together.

And if you really have "while you're in there" syndrome, you have several seals that could be replaced too.

 

[DSMPT]

Also there is a possibility that you have a wrong tensioner pulley or/and the tensioner arm bushing is worn or/and some of timing components is loose such as tensioner pulley/idler pulley/oil pump sprocket etc. Just in case you should check those first before driving since those would ruin the engine.

 

[aydenarcher07]

Also there is a possibility that you have a wrong tensioner pulley or/and the tensioner arm bushing is worn or/and some of timing components is loose such as tensioner pulley/idler pulley/oil pump sprocket etc. Just in case you should check those first before driving since those would ruin the engine.

Yeah I definitely don’t plan on driving the car as it sits now. Luckily I have my daily, and I’m glad I’m very keen to any sounds that aren’t normal because I was able to catch it before anything super bad happened. I was already planning on doing a full timing job, but now it seems I’ll be doing it sooner than expected! Hopefully that fixes my issue, which I’m sure it will.

 

[DSMPT]

Yeah I definitely don’t plan on driving the car as it sits now. Luckily I have my daily, and I’m glad I’m very keen to any sounds that aren’t normal because I was able to catch it before anything super bad happened. I was already planning on doing a full timing job, but now it seems I’ll be doing it sooner than expected! Hopefully that fixes my issue, which I’m sure it will.

Something is not right since your timing belt is flapping/swinging a lot when you revved up in the video.
Just one of possibility but as example, please refer to the link.

2G - Timing belt blues

Hey gang, got some questions about a timing belt change.Why would I have to undercut the tensioner arm so the tensioner pulley would rotate enough to get proper 25 in lbs?This would be rotating the pulley counterclockwise, now, just for shits and giggles I rotated the pulley in a clockwise...

www.dsmtuners.com

 

[99dsmer4g63]

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This will help when you start working on it. I would at a minimum verify timing is correct and check the protrusion of the hydraulic tensioner. Typically if the pulleys or tensioner arm is out of spec it will make the belt walk to one side of cam gears. Yours seems centered still though.

Your car clearly had the cam gears off at some point judging by the labeling. Anyone with knowledge of these cars would know they are interchangeable with your cas setup. I’d be suspicious about the timing belt being installed correctly.

I wouldn’t keep driving it if you don’t have to

-Daniel

 

[chrysler kid]

That noise is the tensioner arm slapping the metal hydraulic tensioner.

Stop driving the car and replace the timing belt and hydraulic tensioner (your timing belt is heavily cracked and separated in places around the teeth)

Only use an oem Mitsubishi hydraulic tensioner