Input on this cylinder condition?

[XiKeiyaZI]

Alright, I've picked this engine up and without going into a mess of detail : The engine turns over fine by hand. No resistance. At one time, a previous head did have valves kiss the piston heads - These are obviously not stock 2G pistons as you'll see.

What I'm wondering is if I can get away with cleaning the block and a simple hone or will I need to bore? I really want to avoid boring the block as I don't really feel the desire to replace the pistons with .020 pistons that I'll force myself to pay a pretty penny for.

There is a small ridge at the top of this cylinder as well as a little deforming on the surface, but no deep gouges or anything. Input would be appreciated.

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[Archer Fabrications]

Is that a gash in pic # 2 on the right side? or just some metal there. the bore looks like crap IMO there isnt any cross hatching looks like the piston was rubbing alot, but im not expert. my my .02 should be fine if you plan on getting line honed and other machining. if that is just debris on pic #2 i dont think a little peppering would hurt much.

 

[arrowhead]

From the looks of it this motor suffered from black death, I think you will have no choice but to bore it out, any patch work you attempt with this will come back to bite you, and your pocket.

 

[bryanwheat]

That is pretty bad. IT looks like the cylinders didn't have enough clearance and the piston was making contact with the cylinder. Your option is to bore or have a sleeve installed. I would be willing to bet that the piston is junk also from seeing the condition of the cylinder.

 

[brian9397gsx]

Yeah that doesnt look good

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

I'll have the pistons removed shortly. Standby 1.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

im calling rubbage on the piston skirt!

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Uugggh. Don't tell me that. x.x Let it be a faulty ring, damnit!

Waiting on a socket to arrive. T - 15.

 

[BogusSVO]

You have alumium trasfer form the piston to the cylinder wall.

I doubt the cylinder is even close to round.

The skirt is gauled up, bet the rings are stuck too.

Chances of a hone and go.... maybe 1 out of 50 chance.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

You have alumium trasfer form the piston to the cylinder wall.

I doubt the cylinder is even close to round.

The skirt is gauled up, bet the rings are stuck too.

Chances of a hone and go.... maybe 1 out of 50 chance.

Those are steep chances. Yeah i definitely noticed the aluminum transfer, thats why i was calling rubbed/gauled skirts.

Edit: Aaaaand we shall find out shortly!

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Welp. Good news. Rods are fine! Crank is perfect!....Pistons... well..

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And...

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And for the set -

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Any help on identifying these rods and pistons? For reference?

Now, as far as repair. The cylinders will need bored. I suppose I should just go ahead and move up to .020 and purchase appropriate pistons. Or, for my goal of about 450, I have a set of great stock 2G pistons. Could I have them installed on these rods, have the cylinders bored and then sleeved to fit? In the name of not sounding cheap, I want to take a cost effective route. I'm not looking to put down 600+ hp, so I want whats' appropriate.

What would your course of action be and what price range am I looking at here?

 

[BogusSVO]

WOW!!

You may want to get some new rods, or have those checked out really close.

Look at the discoloration on the center 2 rods... thats heat and alot of ot... the wrist pins are black!
The oil must have been frying on the rods to color them like that.

It is odd to the small end discolored and not the big end.

Something was/is way wrong in there.

I wonder if it was a "tune" related failure... if it was I would expect to see more damage in the top of the piston.

See if you can get some sort of measurement off the best looking piston, and measure the bore on the block.

Having the block sleeved will cost as much if not more than a new set of forged pistons.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Ah damnit.

I'm starting to think a shortblock is in order at this point. Hah.

But yeah, it's pretty rough. I'm not exactly sure what the issue was with the engine and who owned it before, but it's apparently seen some hell. These pistons are toast. These rods were hot. I suppose I can have a machine shop check them out and ensure they're okay, and if so perhaps they're usable. If not, whatever. Toss em'.

So in the least, I am looking at a good bore, appropriately matching pistons, and rods. Sounds like the finish date just got pushed back further than the shootout. Lol. Damn.

For the record - All but Piston one have the same up-top discoloration. All of the wristpins are the same color - There's no residue or buildup on any of them, whatsoever.

 

[bryanwheat]

I am still going with too tight of clearances. When the pistons expanded they made contact with the cylinders.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

I am still going with too tight of clearances. When the pistons expanded they made contact with the cylinders.

I have absolutely no reason to disagree with you, bud.

Just, kinda scratching my head on what the most feasible course of action here is going to be. I'm very open to opinions.

 

[BogusSVO]

Bryan.. I would agree that the P2W was tight.

That would make heat and size the wrist pin.
But it looks like rings may have been gapped properly, I do not see cracked ring lands, or chunks of the rings missing.

Less than .002 P2W and the pistons installed with a sledge hammer?


Kei.... add have the block checked for cracks....

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Bryan.. I would agree that the P2W was tight.

That would make heat and size the wrist pin.
But it looks like rings may have been gapped properly, I do not see cracked ring lands, or chunks of the rings missing.

Less than .002 P2W and the pistons installed with a sledge hammer?


Kei.... add have the block checked for cracks....

The rings on the two pistons that had no damage were absolutely perfect. No wear, were fit properly. Those are fine. But these... ech.. I'd believe the sledgehammer method might have been put to use here. I just wonder how long they ran the damn things like this.

-.-; Checked for cracks, eh. Shortblock is looking Preeetty good right about now.

 

[arrowhead]

I would not take a chance with those rods at all it is just not worth it.

This galling of the pistons starting at the top is usually the result of a very lean condition paired with incorrect heat range of plugs.

I would not even use the block as this thing really suffered some very high temps.

That is the reason we call it black death.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

I would not take a chance with those rods at all it is just not worth it.

This galling of the pistons starting at the top is usually the result of a very lean condition paired with incorrect heat range of plugs.

I would not even use the block as this thing really suffered some very high temps.

That is the reason we call it black death.

You're a good man. Just needed at least one person to say something about the block. Haha.

Time to strip what's usable and toss the rest. The crank is absolutely gorgeous. Haven't taken a close look at it yet, but it's possible it's not OE.

Welp, that closes this case. Time for a shortblock. I'll run stock for a while and focus on my 2.3 build for the beginning of next year.

Thanks for the input!

 

[bryanwheat]

The block will likely be fine. You can have the block magnafluxed to check for cracks. If no cracks are found than it should clean up with a good bore job. I would look into a set of evo rods (stronger than normal 7 bolt rods) and 2g npr pistons. This setup would easily handle the power you are wanting to make and be relatively cheap to build.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

wow....... dang i came a little late but wow that sucks :S

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

The block will likely be fine. You can have the block magnafluxed to check for cracks. If no cracks are found than it should clean up with a good bore job. I would look into a set of evo rods (stronger than normal 7 bolt rods) and 2g npr pistons. This setup would easily handle the power you are wanting to make and be relatively cheap to build.

-Shrug- Pretty sure I just want to drop a shortblock in for now. That'll save me additional headache. Probably the most depressing thing to find, ever. Haha.

wow....... dang i came a little late but wow that sucks :S

Hey, you called it. You cursed it.