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I knew this day would come

Posted by 1cleangsx, Sep 1, 2019

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  1. 1cleangsx

    1cleangsx Proven Member

    178
    89
    Joined Sep 28, 2013
    Cheyenne, Wyoming
    Just happened to be on tmz’s awd rebuild page and noticed he no longer offers his stg 3/4 buildOMG. I understand parts are simply becoming non existent, i know Jack’s dropped their evo 3 Ultimate Ratio build a year or so ago, it just sucks for 5 speed guys in the 400-600 hp street car range. I can’t justify 8 grand on a transmission built for 1,000 horsepower when I’m making half that. I’m sure I’m on borrowed time with my 130’000 mile stock 90 trans at 35 psi with a 35r, I was planning on a rebuild/upgrade next year, but now I’m wondering should I just go auto? Or maybe a White Shed Speed stg 3:hellyeah:
     

    Street Build 1K  11

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    13.2 @ 104.64 · 1G DSM
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  2. Mech Addict

    Mech Addict Proven Member

    80
    36
    Joined Jun 9, 2019
    Jackson, Wyoming
    I’m finding all kinds of parts are turning N/A!?!? I’m looking more for factory oem stuff, but can certainly relate to the dilemma of knowing things used to be commonly available, and now are nowhere to be found. I spend way more time searching the web, and less actually on the car. Surprised to hear you’re considering going 5MT to auto. Nothing wrong with auto, but a distinctly different creature than rowing through cogs and fancy footwork.
     

    Street Build 354  6

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  3. 1cleangsx

    1cleangsx Proven Member

    178
    89
    Joined Sep 28, 2013
    Cheyenne, Wyoming
    I love my 5 speed, I just know it won’t last forever, I see your a 90 GSX as well:hellyeah: Jacks told me via email that gear set stock will handle 450 whp, I know others disagree but I still feel the 90 trans is where it’s at, however it doesn’t like high rpm shifts and there’s definently a loss of boost between shifts which is what’s most attractive to me about an auto
     

    Street Build 1K  11

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    13.2 @ 104.64 · 1G DSM
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  4. GST with PSI

    GST with PSI DSM Wiseman

    1,816
    1,322
    Joined Jul 27, 2005
    San Diego, California

    Street Build 24K  17  143

    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    12.030 @ 119.39 · Galant VR-4

    663  23

    1982 Yamaha Virago
    rwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 5K  74

    1992 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    awd · manual · Galant VR-4
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  5. Canadian_CD9A

    Canadian_CD9A Proven Member

    480
    183
    Joined Feb 10, 2012
    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    The hub & slider assemblies went obsolete. If you can supply your own, I'm sure TMZ will still play ball.
     
    1cleangsx likes this.
  6. 1cleangsx

    1cleangsx Proven Member

    178
    89
    Joined Sep 28, 2013
    Cheyenne, Wyoming
    Thanks guys, I know both Tim, and bastard could no doubt take care of me, just a little hard accepting the reality of our aging platform LOL
     

    Street Build 1K  11

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    13.2 @ 104.64 · 1G DSM
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  7. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Proven Member

    4,473
    1,028
    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    FYI, I need to update my page. I don't have any 3/4 sliders stocked up. It's likely my rebuilds will be affected. The "stage" rebuild doesn't really mean all that much in power handling anyway.

    It's very likely that if the demand for a solution was there, the parts would become available, look at domestic rwd stuff, at one time used ford toploader parts were gold....Now you can build one from all new parts.....The demand was there and the suppliers responded. There could even be a better trans option that isn't a full on dogbox, but most guys think a $900 rebuild is too much... You can buy new T10's for $2k, and mcleod developed a new muscle car 5 speed for $3k. There is no reason there can't be a a $3k bad ass 600 ft*lbs trans available. DSM guys would just have to quit bitching, parting cars, giving up, and actually spend money.
     

    Showcar Build 5K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon N/T
    9.805 @ 144.00 · 1G DSM
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  8. 1cleangsx

    1cleangsx Proven Member

    178
    89
    Joined Sep 28, 2013
    Cheyenne, Wyoming
    Thank You bastard for responding and being one of the few who personally love and support this platform, I’m not afraid to spend money, I’m about to drop a few dimes this fall on a nice paint job for my car so I can cruise it and show her off, these cars are getting old but not no less awesome, I love my car as much now as I did in 2013 when I bought it, the trans is just one part that hasn’t broke yet LOL. It’s nice to know there’s still guys out there still taking care of us
     

    Street Build 1K  11

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    13.2 @ 104.64 · 1G DSM
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  9. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

    2,924
    1,463
    Joined Dec 2, 2002
    Houston, Texas
    Sure, but make sure to bring your purse with you ;)
     

    Street Build 3K  10

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  10. llxkevinxll

    llxkevinxll Proven Member

    239
    105
    Joined Jan 29, 2012
    Cleveland, Ohio
    I feel like in my 10 years on these forums I have seen this changing. I think Bobby's suspension parts are a good example. Small volume sure but there is a demand for quality parts that are not cheap.
    $3k for a strong trans seems extremely reasonable to me. My biggest fear is that the car I've spent a decade building will become a garage show piece due to lack of parts. I hope enough people stay interested in these cars that as Mitsu makes stuff obsolete the aftermarket can step in. Only time will tell.
     

    Autocross Build 2K  3

    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.06 @ 105.75 · 2G DSM

    Street Build 1K  1

    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  11. Canadian_CD9A

    Canadian_CD9A Proven Member

    480
    183
    Joined Feb 10, 2012
    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    A hub and slider can be replicated by a competent machine shop, but there will be big costs to whoever commissions them (i.e. having to pay for a few hundred of them up-front). If a business does go ahead with having their own parts made, please support them by buying a rebuild, or the raw parts themselves. It would be so sad to see support for our transmissions die because some minor parts go obsolete and it would also threaten to remove the PAR synchronized gearset from the market, as there won't be parts to build those. People will get by on harvesting core transmissions for a while, but eventually people start fighting over those and paying way too much (it's started happening years ago for Evo 123 transmissions). Worst case, your Staged build costs a couple hundred bucks more from an aftermarket hub/slider, but you'll have a reliable product. Vote with your wallets and get the aftermarket rolling, let's keep these cars alive.
     
    pat white, 1cleangsx and llxkevinxll like this.
  12. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

    1,379
    479
    Joined Feb 9, 2019
    Hoover, Alabama
    What I'm catching from this thread is that I need to hurry up and buy my GSX and two of everything to go with it.
     

    584  5

    2012 Murray Explorer Dune
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Road Race Build 3K  23

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    431  4

    2009 Troy Bilt Bronco
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles
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  13. Mech Addict

    Mech Addict Proven Member

    80
    36
    Joined Jun 9, 2019
    Jackson, Wyoming
    So you know, there is a 1990 part out right now in the classifieds where the guy is selling a built-up 5speed. Just sayin...
     

    Street Build 354  6

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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    1cleangsx and BLACK'98DSM like this.
  14. jdxnc

    jdxnc Proven Member

    161
    52
    Joined Sep 15, 2009
    Stanstead, Vermont
    In my personal opinion the 90 gearset is the strongest of the OEM gears, perhaps the slight different pitch has something to do with it.

    That being said, they all die if you don't keep things in spec. Worn bearings and heat are the biggest killers of these transmissions. Keeping the gear preloads in spec is key and both these things effect it directly. When the preloads are off the stresses get moved from the root of the teeth to the tips, think of a lever, the further out, the less pressure they can take. We need to keep the stress at the root where they are the strongest. Bearing wear from high mileage or improper lubrication effects this directly. Heat also is a big factor, the aluminum case expands at nearly 2x the rate of the gear clusters, loosening the preloads, so keeping the trans temps down goes a long ways.

    I run a 90 gearset in my 2g with a 4 spider center diff, I pull it bi-annually to inspect and re-shim it, it's been going strong for years, with many mid 10 second passes and low 1.5 60's.
     

    Street Build 4K  20

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    10.456 @ 136.87 · 2G DSM
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  15. 1cleangsx

    1cleangsx Proven Member

    178
    89
    Joined Sep 28, 2013
    Cheyenne, Wyoming
    Wow, thank you for the response Jason! I’ve seen just about all your YouTube videos LOL, your car, work ethic and info in your videos gives us all a nice standard to shoot for with these cars. I always wondered what gearset you ran/currently we’re running in your ten second beast:hellyeah: Are you still on the modified fp red?
     

    Street Build 1K  11

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    13.2 @ 104.64 · 1G DSM
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  16. jdxnc

    jdxnc Proven Member

    161
    52
    Joined Sep 15, 2009
    Stanstead, Vermont
    Thank you Jeremy, I try to pay it forward with the info I've gained from others over the years.

    Yes I'm still running that turbo.
     

    Street Build 4K  20

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    10.456 @ 136.87 · 2G DSM
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  17. We're on Boost

    We're on Boost Proven Member

    939
    86
    Joined Aug 25, 2007
    Seattle area, Washington
    Check Tim Zimmer's Facebook page for what he has to say about the hub and slider disco. Here's a little bit of it:
    "Currently I am trying to find an availability solution for the now obsolete DSM 90-92 HD 3rd/4th hub and slider assembly. This is affecting around 20 transmissions at the shop and I am looking into the cost of manufacturing the component."

    I thought he said somewhere in that thread that he was going to ask for bids from a few machine shops to build these parts. An initial lot size of 50 is what he had in mind. Now I can't find that part of it.
    His Facebook is at https://www.facebook.com/tim.zimmer.35?__tn__=,d-]-h-R&eid=ARC9Du6EUW1f_DkZrnuRryWlRwq07KsjDbxMURsDVkMyfbCP2A0SjKkIqgksfGDS1ySwKl93t75xKtHY

    .... and the date of the post is August 9.

    On my car running “low” boost at about 550 whp, the stock ’91 rebuild transmission didn’t last long (that was not a TMZ rebuild by the way).
    It was street only, no launches. All I did was an occasional hard pull to redline in 2nd gear. No hard shifting. I wild guess it went through about 30 or 40 hard 2nd gear pulls, plus all the dyno pulls and road pulls it went through at English Racing.
    So after that experience, I ordered a PPG dogbox from TMZ.

    I really like what bastarddsm said, “if the demand for a solution was there, the parts would become available.”
    Canadian_CD9A said “If a business does go ahead with having their own parts made, please support them by buying a rebuild, or the raw parts themselves.”
    YES! I mean buying the raw parts, for spares, or whatever. It would spread the financial load and maybe the small production lot size could be bigger, lowering the cost.
    Also, even before these hub and slider parts became unavailable, you still needed basically an unbroken core transmission to start from, because of a few other parts that were no longer available new.
    So if these parts become available, get that puppy rebuilt before it breaks, not after!

    The best core I could find was a JDM tranny that I bought from a place called JDM Florida. Talk to Miko the owner. I got a healthy dose of Japanese politeness from Miko which I really like, and the price including T-case was only $400, and no issues with shipping. It was from apparently a 6G72 car, and right-hand drive of course, so the bell housing was all wrong. But the rest of it was very good and fits the proper DSM bell housing which we already had.

    You can still get a PPG dogbox, or a Liberty faceplated dogbox same as before. In fact Tim says on his Facebook that the cost of the PPG gearsets has come down a little from what it was. Don't know how much.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019

    4K  19

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    650 whp · 510 lb/ft · 1G DSM

    2K  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
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  18. 1cleangsx

    1cleangsx Proven Member

    178
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    Joined Sep 28, 2013
    Cheyenne, Wyoming
    I see there’s defenantly still options out there, thanks for the info:thumb:, by the way, is your dog box equipped car street driven? How do you like it?
     

    Street Build 1K  11

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    13.2 @ 104.64 · 1G DSM
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  19. We're on Boost

    We're on Boost Proven Member

    939
    86
    Joined Aug 25, 2007
    Seattle area, Washington
    I don't have it yet! Yeah, it takes a long time to get through the whole process.
    But that is my plan. Street only, no track. Which it has been all along.
    People used to say "track only" for dog boxes. I'm not worried about it. I don't use this car for transportation. I don't rely on it for any useful purpose. I won't drive it in heavy traffic. etc etc.

    I thought that either English Racing or Tim would try to talk me out of it, knowing full well how I use my car. But they didn't at all.
    I kind of cleared my mind of most of the horror stories by watching the video posted on YouTube by Mr PPG himself in 2007, where he shows how to drive it on the street, with 2 different cars.
    I also talked a lot with @DSMPT about his experiences with it, and that helped a lot (using the private messages here).

    I will say though that I really like the DSM 5 speed gearbox and 91-94 OEM shifter. The one I had that was a rebuild was the nicest shifting gearbox I've ever had in any manual car. That includes BMW, Toyota, and I don't even count Subaru because the only Subaru I've ever driven has a very vague shifter which would give you no end of trouble on a dog box.
    Actually my Toyota also has a really nice shifting gearbox but I never stress it.
    Here's a link to that video:

     

    4K  19

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    650 whp · 510 lb/ft · 1G DSM

    2K  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
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  20. 1cleangsx

    1cleangsx Proven Member

    178
    89
    Joined Sep 28, 2013
    Cheyenne, Wyoming
     

    Street Build 1K  11

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    13.2 @ 104.64 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  21. DSMPT

    DSMPT Proven Member

    569
    222
    Joined Jun 12, 2014
    Japan / Mexico, Arizona
    Drivability of dogbox with straight cut gears on the street is depending how much you can accept/stand the whine noise and the shock from straight cut gears and dog engagement. You can shift like stock transmission, just do not hesitate to go into gear when you shift but no need to force anything.
    Maybe it would annoy you if the car is very daily, used very often or for long distance. But in my case, I don't drive often and the car is heavily modified with all mounts are solid, loud exhaust, multi plate clutch, etc etc. The car is already noisy and harsh enough anyways, so I don't really mind about that.
    The video in the link below is very close to reality. It shows more how it's gonna be. Mine does almost the same noise. (The sound volume is low, should use a headphones or bigger speakers)
    Since PPG is Australian, the value of the US dollar also affects the US price. Around 2009, it was US$7000ish. A couple years ago they priced down to $5,300 and now $5,500. Let's hope it won't price up again.
     

    Drag Race Build 1K  2

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    Street Build 1K  4

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM
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    llxkevinxll likes this.
  22. llxkevinxll

    llxkevinxll Proven Member

    239
    105
    Joined Jan 29, 2012
    Cleveland, Ohio
    That is good to hear. Is there any concern with wear life of a dog box that you know of? I have mentioned dog box and street car to some people with the reaction of "have fun rebuilding it every 2000 miles" or similar. My car is not a daily. It will see about 2000-3000 total miles a year. But a rebuild of it yearly doesn't sound fun to me.
     

    Autocross Build 2K  3

    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.06 @ 105.75 · 2G DSM

    Street Build 1K  1

    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  23. 1cleangsx

    1cleangsx Proven Member

    178
    89
    Joined Sep 28, 2013
    Cheyenne, Wyoming
    Dude the video of the owner driving their gtr had 20’000 miles, and was literally made to crush the myths. What I’ve gathered so far is people who haven’t personally owned a ppg trans say it won’t work, but those who actually have them say otherwise. It’s like oem or not it will still break, but I’ve read more results of those constantly rebuilding there “stage whatever” rebuilds do to some factor part breaking
     

    Street Build 1K  11

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    13.2 @ 104.64 · 1G DSM
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    DSMPT likes this.
  24. DSMPT

    DSMPT Proven Member

    569
    222
    Joined Jun 12, 2014
    Japan / Mexico, Arizona
    If the transmission is properly built, you don't really need to rebuild yearly or every 3000miles. You just need to change the gear oil every 5000km/3000miles to have the best longevity, that is what I was recommended by PPG.
     

    Drag Race Build 1K  2

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    Street Build 1K  4

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM
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  25. llxkevinxll

    llxkevinxll Proven Member

    239
    105
    Joined Jan 29, 2012
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Any thoughts on the dogs wearing? Have you had yours serviced? If so, how many miles in?
     

    Autocross Build 2K  3

    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.06 @ 105.75 · 2G DSM

    Street Build 1K  1

    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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