hx40 or fp red? 500hp goal

[viperlp01]

Dsm-onster.. You are defidently on "team holset" hahaha

 

[dsm-onster]

I love the fp3052 and the very different gt35r platform (the fp3065 is neither). I just don't like utter misinformation brazenly belched all over my favorite forums.

Problem with the fp3065 is what is the whp record? The fp3052 spools faster and is proven to spool about the same as the bolton hx40 and what is the .55 a/r hx40 whp record?

 

[firebirdvert305]

Does anyone have any LOGGED MAP SENSOR information datalogs, besides saying they can get there HX40 to hit 40psi by 4000rpms? I have yet to see any accurate info on these turbos with true factual information back up by there claims.

 

[andy4g63]

^^^ There is plenty of info......
I don't understand the sarcasm..?!?!?!?!

 

[firebirdvert305]

^^^ There is plenty of info......
I don't understand the sarcasm..?!?!?!?!

Andy didnt mean to come off the way I did. I never once seen a logged map sensor with some kind of info showing spool on a 2.0L w/a HX40 or any holset for that matter. People are claiming they spool faster then a FP3065, but nothing to back it up, if you have a map sensor showing spool id like to see how well these holsets spool. The FP3065 already spools good in the FP housings, kind of hard to imagine a bigger holset doing better. Im not saying it dosent but ive never seen any FACTUAL information that it does...

 

[JusMX141]

The FP3065 already spools good in the FP housings, kind of hard to imagine a bigger holset doing better. Im not saying it dosent but ive never seen any FACTUAL information that it does...

I know it doesn't make sense at all when you look at the wheel size of a Holset versus a factory counterpart, but they do spool like crazy...I'm guessing because of the TALL turbine wheel inducer.

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Early in the Holset Part 7 thread, a customer of mine bolted a HX35 on his 2G auto in place of a FP 18G6SL2, and noted that the HX35 spooled quicker than the 18G. That's remarkable considering the wheel size and the larger turbine housing a/r.

 

[dsm-onster]

Andy didnt mean to come off the way I did. I never once seen a logged map sensor with some kind of info showing spool on a 2.0L w/a HX40 or any holset for that matter. People are claiming they spool faster then a FP3065, but nothing to back it up, if you have a map sensor showing spool id like to see how well these holsets spool. The FP3065 already spools good in the FP housings, kind of hard to imagine a bigger holset doing better. Im not saying it dosent but ive never seen any FACTUAL information that it does...

Here's one setup with a map sensor showing 20+ psi by 3900rpms, click. I've seen several fp3052 setups do about the same. This is with the slower spooling 12blade hx40 turbine wheel. In the end, efficiency has more of an effect on spool speed than center cartridges.

 

[firebirdvert305]

Here's one setup with a map sensor showing 20+ psi by 3900rpms, click. I've seen several fp3052 setups do about the same. This is with the slower spooling 12blade hx40 turbine wheel. In the end, efficiency has more of an effect on spool speed than center cartridges.

Thanks Matt this is the kind of information im looking for. However if had he logged mafraw I would of loved too seen the actual airflow values per rpm to see what kind of flow numbers hes getting. There is no timing in the spoolup range either as well, so this spool can definatly be improved on. Id like too see this kind of information on a HX40 T3 hotside to compare to a friends SC61 that ive tuned that put down 550awhp/442tq...considering there both journal bearing turbos, almost identical inside and the garrett has a smaller a/r turbine housing. Thanks Matt for sharing that...

 

[dsm-onster]

Sorry. there's only the actual map sensor proof of a 700whp bolton turbo spooling that fast . . . But glad to help that much at least But yes, I agree, he had ALOT more there WRT spool with a good tune, like any turbo. I wonder how many compare turbo spool speed form one to the other and don't take into consideration a good tune or even other more significant differences like exhaust manifold design / o2 housing and even cams.

The sc61 is VERY different than the hx40. the shape of the fins are VERY different. And reflects in the fact that a bolton turbo can do 690whp and even the other turbo with a garrett hotside hasn't done that.

 

[jkimes]

If the stated goal is 500whp shouldn't he be looking at an HX35 instead?
V8killerturbo4 proved on the Holset results thread that you can make 500whp on a MUSTANG DYNO with an HX35. In case you missed it, his results are below;

494hp
466 ft lbs

91 AWD talon
Wiseco 9.0/1's
Eagle Rods
Stock 1G Head Ports w/ crower valve springs
FP2's
Stock intake manny
Twin Walbro 255's on E85
PTE 1200's
Keydiver chip
ACT 2600 w/ Street Disk
Gen 2 MAFT with LS1 Maf

I personally made almost 500whp on low boost and pump gas with my hx40 pro on a veeeery conservative tune with a small 3" dejontool intake, a 2G MAF, and 2 exhaust resonators. I suspect (and hope to prove very soon) that an HX40 pro with a t4 mani and large (19cm^2) hotside can produce 700+ whp without too much trouble on a good E85 tune via speed density. The HX35 would get the OP to his goal and spool quite a bit faster than the already phenomenal HX40. Then again, if the OP wants similar spool to a 3052 and the capability of 650+ whp with a bolt on turbo then the HX40 is probably the way to go.

 

[98turbo]

Sorry. there's only the actual map sensor proof of a 700whp bolton turbo spooling that fast . . . But glad to help that much at least But yes, I agree, he had ALOT more there WRT spool with a good tune, like any turbo. I wonder how many compare turbo spool speed form one to the other and don't take into consideration a good tune or even other more significant differences like exhaust manifold design / o2 housing and even cams.

The sc61 is VERY different than the hx40. the shape of the fins are VERY different. And reflects in the fact that a bolton turbo can do 690whp and even the other turbo with a garrett hotside hasn't done that.

I personally like to use the term "Positive boost" because spool seems way to overused, generic, and can mean a million different things to a million different people.

Have any of you guys tried the BEP S366? its a little pricier ut will deliver over 80lbs/min in a T3 frame turbo.

I do like the holsets but I just think that for the guys pullin 30psi there could be a little more power made. Essentially the hx35 and variants were designed for a diesel, most of them ran pretty close to these boost pressure ratios and was picked because of its efficiency, yes they can make a bit more if pushed a tad harder but once you get to that point its just out of efficiency.

I have been doing alot of research on the new 67mm class(6765 and 6768) and honestly its purely amazing that precision can squeeze 850+ from a 67mm "S" compressor cover turbocharger. Their new billet wheels are very impressive. AWDmotorsports made over 720 with their smaller 6262.

just my crappy 2 cents

 

[dsm-onster]

Well for the OPs goal and anything between that and 700whp. I don't see there being much better for spool and flow. But yep the higher flowing PTE turbos with a t3 housing seam very nice. But for someone to remain bolton, there's nothing that does as well as the hx40 so far.

 

[Boug]

This is a very interesting thread. Awesome information!

 

[red1993gsallmt]

well ive had both turbos and i must say the hx40 is hands down faster spooling, harder hitting and pulls up top way more( and thats in a .55 bolt on housing) then the red any day. the red was a good turbo in its day, you could call the hx40 "todays red", and i was right under your goal at 26psi with 475 whp on 93 pump with only 9* of timing

 

[bsbllfit7]

Now what would you recommend for someone wanting to stay in a stock flanged setup, would you go with a hx40 in the bep or an fp red in a 7cm housing.