Honda vs. Mitsu

[Phatty95GSX]

Hey, all now really a newbie been on the boards for a while now , just have a few questions i think are kinda easy to answer.... Why the hell are dsm's so complicated.. honda's have so much room under hood.. anyway to clear up under the hood .. like cna you get that vaccuum box that all your vacuum lines run into ?

Why do DSM's break down so much? ... Lets say you build a motor for eclipse.. like 1g 6 bolt motor for a 2g... if you build it right will you have a b unch of dump ass nickel and dime problems? because everyone knows mitsu break down alot.... is it mainly on the stock cars.....

really considering a honda because seems that they dont break as much or as often... the main question i want answered is.... If you were to build a honda motor w/turbo and an eclipse motor ... just because the honda motor is honda.. will it have less problems? i know stock honda are reliable and stock mitsu arent... just post what you think... Thanks for the input also, well if you leave some.

 

[dsmayhem]

Any car you mod will in all likely be less reliable then its stock conterpart.

 

[DSMvroom]

First of all, try to form better sentences because it helps stupid people like me understand what you are saying.

Second, yes Hondas are more reliable.

Third, DSMs have problems because yes, Mitsubishi sorta puts the Japanese brand to shame in terms of reliabilty.

Fourth, what dsmmayhem says.

Fifth, people buy DSMs because there is something elite about them despite their "poor" reliability. Don't you want to be elite? Sure, some Honda guys can say they have a b16 under the hood and even a turbo to go along with it if they are lucky, but a stage I DSM can still beat that

I just recently joined the elite ranks afte EXTENSIVE use of the search button; it was either a DSM or a Subaru 2.5 RS. My goal was a 300hp car and both of those could reach it, and despite the DSM can do it better (read more reliably) than a 2.5 RS . . . but that's not why I picked the DSM. I picked it 'cause DSM is the coolest.

 

[Generation1JeY]

ok well any turbo car will run into a lot of problems along the lines of 100k miles, just because there's so much more to them than just a intake and an exhaust, constant pressure throughout the internals.

As far as breaking down u just need to know YOUR car personally, if u take good car of the car it shouldn't be having numerous problems, the problem is people who don't understand that dsms are sports cars, or i consider the turboed cars sports cars, and u cant just put gas in them and take them to jiffy lube on ur free time and have everything in order, u need to keep an eye on the engine and make sure everything is working properly, and the percise moment that something starts acting funny, u get on it right away to make sure it gets working asap so it doesn't cause any further damage.

If there is any reason why a honda motor would be more reliable maybe because it isn't 13 years old like my car is, i know the 2gs are a lot newer, but a lot of the people who have those like to drive them hard like they know everything about them and their restrictions, which would be even worse than 13 years from the dealership. Also u have to understand that typical stock hondas are not made to be "fast" cars, almost all of them are made with little horsepower bar the nsx and s2k and perhaps prelude. They are just designed to be economical machines for commuting, not for racing. Take a look at honda engines in real drag racers, theyre just as unreliable now as our cars are just because when u get to having massive ammounts of power, things are meant to break.

If u want a honda then go for it, but i find it actually hillarious that in one point in my life i was about to spend 7 thousand dollars on a 4th gen prelude that had 160 hp and took premium gas because of its high compression pistons that don't even give it reasonable power. I mean i stopped myself from that and did some research and payed 3 thousand dollars for a car with more than twice the potential and power. Turbo engine vs all motor, AWD vs FWD its not even a decission to me anymore, GSX all the way baby!

 

[Denji]

1. DSMs are "complicated" because there is more to them. No honda is offered with turbo as far as i know and none are offered with all wheel drive.. all the components needed to run an awd turbo car is what makes the car more "complicated". There is just more things to break and more things that could go wrong.

2.i dont think mitsubishi's break down a lot.. not if you were to compare a turbocharged honda to a turbo dsm. An all motor honda is going to be more reliable than a turbo honda.

3. I believe that stock turbo cars are the most reliable when turbocharged and least expensive to get effective power gains out of forced air induction due to the fact that the motor is built for it. Any time you have a motor making power above what it was designed to handle then you are simply going to have more problems.

All in all Hondas are generally fuel economy vehicles

P.S. I heard the 3 cylinder geo metros break down much less than the average honda. maybe you should look into one of those instead.

 

[Phatty95GSX]

thanks for the input, what i was tryin to say to the guy who says he is dumb.... If you build a motor for your honda and build a motor for a mitsubishi... will one be more reliable then the other.... ?

Ohh and my friend is runnin b16 with turbo, motor is built and he is runnin low 11's.. like 11.2 and is still tuning... riding in his car makes my car feel hella slow... probably hate my car because im having major issues with my new turbo but im runnin like 17's when i should be running low 12's easy....

 

[Denji]

thanks for the input, what i was tryin to say to the guy who says he is dumb.... If you build a motor for your honda and build a motor for a mitsubishi... will one be more reliable then the other.... ?

Yes.

 

[Generation1JeY]

and also u want a test of engine capabilities? have u ever seen an almost stock honda boost 20psi?

Most people that actually spend the 5thousand dollars for a decent turbo setup on their integra can only boost like 6psi from the start, they have to do some massive internal work to be able to support the pressure, our engines are like that from the lineup and u can still upgrade them.

and another thing, lets say u buy a used dsm for like 2thousand$, u spend less than another 2thousand$ and u got almost 300AWD WHP!

or u can spend 11k on a used integra, 4k on a turbo set up, 2k on internal parts to actually support the boost, another thousand on the awsome catback exhausts that import tuner just loves to sell u for "added Power"

Despite having some set backs every now and then from servicing the dsm engine which do u think is a better deal?

Lol people here my gsx without even seeing it and they can tell its not a honda, these cars are just a lot better for speed, they dont sound like suped up lawn mowers.

 

[Phatty95GSX]

if i could figure out how to convert a stock turbo setup from internal to external wastegate i would "definately" keep my dsm... i mean AWD is extremly fun.

 

[Generation1JeY]

this is just what u do alright, build up ur engine a little bit for low end power, boost ur car to 20 psi, put the baldest tires u've ever seen in ur life on ur gsx, roll up to a nopi event and head over to the burnout contest and light up all 4 tires, while ur at it do some twirlin awd donuts.

YOU WILL WIN!

 

[dsmayhem]

if i could figure out how to convert a stock turbo setup from internal to external wastegate i would "definately" keep my dsm... i mean AWD is extremly fun.

Why would you want an external gate on a T25?

 

[Phatty95GSX]

well i have a Super 20g on my car atm... and the wastegate is stuck... max boost i can push is 5psi... the wastegate looks similar to the stock one thats why i just said "stock turbo".... is there a way to convert to external, like buy new manifold... someone said i had to cut out the internal wastegate and get a manifold with external built in.... not sure what the hell i have to do.... i mean.. how do people convert there shit to external wastegates?... let me know

 

[Generation1JeY]

internal wastegates are mounted on the turbo, u just take it off and mount the external wherever u want, whether it be on the manifold, or the o2 housing. Its good to get an o2 dump tube with the wastegate on the end, that way it's less crammed around ur turbo area.

u put the turbo in didnt u? shouldnt u know where the wastegate is.

 

[boostedinaz]

Any car that you make fast will be less reliable no matter who made it. If you want a reliable car then get a slow car. Everyone wants a 10 sec car that never breaks parts or breaks down. When you find it let me know.

As far as going to an external gate you will need a few pieces. The first will be the gate itself and they you have to either buy a new O2 housing from a place like www.victoryperformance.com or butcher your stock O2 to make it work. You could also go the ghetto way and just have it welded on the manifold. The last option is to use the SEARCH button and you will find all the answers you could ever use.

Michael

 

[BlackbirdOfPrey]

Everyone wants a 10 sec car that never breaks parts or breaks down. When you find it let me know.

Spoken like a true wiseman!

I'll throw in my .02 cents since everyone else is opining. You have to consider, most of the dsm's "reliability problems" come from idiots who take 10+ year old cars, slap big turbos and upgraded parts without doing basic maintenance, are generally ignorant about cars, and wonder why things break. Any car will perform well and not break down as much if it is maintained. Honda, Mitsu, Nissan, Ford, GM whatever. You maintain it, it won't break down. And yes if you run a car hard, you can expect to break things, its the same way with every car, not just one manufacturer.

Ill borrow a quote from a local DSM club member

"Low Cost, Reliability, Performance. Which two would you choose?" Easy choice for me.

 

[AWDTireSmokeTsi]

Heres an old saying I go by

"If you want something fast and cheap, then it isnt going to be reliable.
If you want something cheap and reliable, then it isnt going to be fast.
If you want something fast and reliable, then it isnt gonna be cheap".
You ask if DSMS are reliable, compared to a Honda....no. Compared to a Ford...yes.

And no, you cant throw a turbo on a Honda and have it be reliable, remember,
Honda engines arent made to handle turbos like are engines are, thats why Hondafiles have to build there block before they turbo it.

 

[Generation1JeY]

ya a great wiseman once told me something very special that i try and live by everyday:

"Mitsubishi may suck balls now, but DSMs own Hondas"

yes, great advice from a very insightful and intelligent man.

 

[Mack]

"Mitsubishi may suck balls now, but DSMs own Hondas"

Nice

 

[99gst_racer]

A stock 2G DSM is 210 HP. Pump a Honda up to 210 HP and it will be much less reliable than a DSM. That's where you trade reliability for perofrmance.

-Paul-

 

[Generation1JeY]

Moral of this story is, half the people with riced out hondas and acuras probably have no idea that they ARE MADE to be economy cars, not performance race vehicles, sure u can make them into good engines, but when u do that u drop ur reliability aswell.

I bet u anything a lancer(nonturbo) suped up is way more reliable than a built hatchback.
its not that mitsubishi makes unreliable cars its just that for one thing 1g cars are 10-15 years old with over 100k on them, so if u r wondering why they are unreliable there's most of ur asnwer. It's also because turbos arent exactly gentle bolt on upgrades.

1gGSX = 16psi with minimal upgrades, (very reliable)

Integra = 6psi with aftermarket internals, (how is ur turbo lawn mower doing?)

 

[Generation1JeY]

Moral of this story is, half the people with riced out hondas and acuras probably have no idea that they ARE MADE to be economy cars, not performance race vehicles, sure u can make them into good engines, but when u do that u drop ur reliability aswell.

I bet u anything a lancer(nonturbo) suped up is way more reliable than a built hatchback.
its not that mitsubishi makes unreliable cars its just that for one thing 1g cars are 10-15 years old with over 100k on them, so if u r wondering why they are unreliable there's most of ur asnwer. It's also because turbos arent exactly gentle bolt on upgrades.

1gGSX = 16psi with minimal upgrades, (very reliable)

Integra = 6psi with aftermarket internals, (how is ur turbo lawn mower doing?)

 

[Generation1JeY]

Moral of this story is, half the people with riced out hondas and acuras probably have no idea that they ARE MADE to be economy cars, not performance race vehicles, sure u can make them into good engines, but when u do that u drop ur reliability aswell.

I bet u anything a lancer(nonturbo) suped up is way more reliable than a built hatchback.
its not that mitsubishi makes unreliable cars its just that for one thing 1g cars are 10-15 years old with over 100k on them, so if u r wondering why they are unreliable there's most of ur asnwer. It's also because turbos arent exactly gentle bolt on upgrades.

1gGSX = 16psi with minimal upgrades, (very reliable)

Integra = 6psi with aftermarket internals, (how is ur turbo lawn mower doing?)

 

[tsi4ya]

haha yeah DSM only have bad names because people treat them sooo bad i mean everone is right. . . Honda's can only handle what they were bread to do and thats save gas. . .yeah u have your type R or GSR but for these guys to get were we are they have to do a hell lot more work. . .and well once u buy your dsm . . its funny watching it grow back into the Honda kickin V8 ass kickin car . .changeing the face of mustange everywhere one V8 at a time. . .

 

[2gGSX]

Think of it this way, your best bet turboing a honda will probably be LS-turbo, in which case you will probably need to have it sleeved (just my opinion) to be safe, and even so will still not hold up to boost as well as a 4g63.

in this case, cast iron closed deck > honda

 

[paranoidTSi]

As much as I love my DSM and stuff, I get kinda tired of the excuse the cars are unreliable because they are often abused (thats what I used to say), This is true to a extent, but the cars were built with one killer engine (the 4g63) and with crappy components.

Essentially to me the DSM was built with a stronger motor than what the chasis/suspension can handle. My car was near stock when I bought it (exhaust, blitz bov were the only mods) and it was falling apart.

Now, on the other hand I see turbo honda's go through motors like I do underwear, Honda motors do NOT support turbos NEARLY as well as the mitsubishi 4g63 can handle. On stock internals a 4g63 can handle 450HP - 500HP....now do that to a stock honda motor and see what you have.

If I had to pick between the two, I would pick a unreliable DSM to a trendy Honda...at least a DSM gets a little respect out of the box, Hondas don't.