help! 420a problems

[chris447]

idles kinda funny like it wants to drop off and usually dies. wont rev above 3500rpm. changed timing belt and yes its in time, throttle body sensors, ordered map sensor, changed crank and cam sensor too... this problem has been driving me bizark!!!
thanks,
chris

 

[bullettdsm]

Intake air leak, something didn't get plugged back in (IAC, TPS and MAP all plugged in?) or timing off (I know you hate to hear that one). Are you throwing a cel?

MB

 

[LD25Delta9]

Check your plug wires...

 

[chris447]

coil pack and all the way to the plug gap and color is great and new, timing is good, cant hear a leak anywhere, tried using snoop leak detector on it all too, it couldnt b leaking at the hondata thermal gasket on the manifold could it??? all my sensors are in properly too... i really just hope its not the computer, i cant wait to go turbo and thats just somthin i dont want to buy till im boosted.... valve train seemed great too... thanks guys!!!

plus if the timing was off even a tooth, the car "shouldnt start" at all but who is to know, im most defently my timing is good, i think its electrical but cant figure that out... possiby because my front o2 sensor is broke???

 

[LD25Delta9]

Limp mode!

 

[DsMgIrL078]

Definately sounds like limp mode! No CEL?

 

[chris447]

really? never really thought of that... would that b due to the front o2 sensor? i just picked up a new one and the map sensor so i have fingers crossed... always have had cel due to no rear o2 sensor and my fuel set up and other such things... symptoms of limp mode? thanks guys i really apriciate the help

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Please try using better grammar in your posts. It only takes a fraction of a second more to write "be" instead of "b."

Read all of the stored codes, especially since you've had a CEL for some time now... you have no other way of knowing whether there are new codes, or whether there's just the same one you've known about.

2GNT.com - PCM_Error_Codes

 

[chris447]

it doesnt have the obd system, i have to check it via key method... sorry about the grammer guys

 

[VelocitàPaola]

All 420A's are accessible via an OBD-II ISO scanner... even the 95's. If you don't have a scanner or can't find one, then do the key dance method.

 

[chris447]

i just swaped the two sensors and gave it another try, rpms bounced all over, wouldnt idle down and wont rev up like supose to... i noticed a horrible sucking noise so i think im gonna tear into the intake manifold, unless you think it just may be because the cold air intake is disconected from the throttle body? do those thermal gaskets need retorqued after being ran for a bit?

the codes i pulled from the key dance befor changing the sensors were 12 14 and 55

just now pulled 11 12 and 55

 

[VelocitàPaola]

What two sensors did you swap?

Codes 12 and 55 are basically meaningless for your purposes. Code 14 tells us something is up with the MAP sensor (it's either bad, or the connection to it is bad). Code 11 tells us your timing is off or either the crankshaft angle sensor or camshaft position sensor is malfunctioning.

Begin by inspecting the wires near the EGR dumptube for burnt insulation and electrical shorts. If that checks out, find a code scanner and determine exactly what the key dance code 11 represents: it can mean either OBD-II code P0335, P1390 or P1391.

 

[bullettdsm]

idles kinda funny like it wants to drop off and usually dies. wont rev above 3500rpm.

Faulty MAP will do this.

plus if the timing was off even a tooth, the car "shouldnt start" at all

Car will still start and run off by a tooth. Depending on which cam/crank/amount off you will idle funny and not be able to rev up

... possiby because my front o2 sensor is broke???

This is one of the items you want to have on your car, . It basically tells the ECU about what's happening with the fuel. If the ECU gets no reading (or a steady reading), it is not happy and you will run rich with pulled timing because it is scared

Those codes are your "helpful Henry". Try to get them read so you can isolate the problem.

MB

 

[chris447]

changed map sensor, front o2 sensor, crank and cam sensor, aic, throttle position sensor... wires sould be good, i just changed the loom on them a month or so ago...

 

[pgarland]

A 95 Eclipse is OBDII compliant (or are we talking about a different car than the one in your profile?), get the car to an Autozone or Advanced Auto Parts shop and get them to read the codes for you (they will do this for free). Like Paul said above, check the wires (even if they were put in recently) especially around the EGR tube, that's a very common trouble spot for our cars as the heat off the tube tends to melt down wires with extreme prejudice.

As for the timing thing, my car was 4 teeth off when I changed the belt (I changed it about 3 weeks after I bought the car). The car started and ran without too many noticeable problems, other than a bit of a sloppy idle and a total lack of power. My case was pretty extreme (and I am very lucky that my motor wasn't destroyed), but I mention it just to show that one tooth off might not stop the motor from running.

 

[chris447]

wow, u really did get lucky... i checked manifold last night befor the rain and it seemed fine but im gona tear it down and double check today... as for the egr, can i just block it off and completely remove it? what would i do with the little vacoom line on the bottom of it? just block it off too and remove the whole unit?

 

[bullettdsm]

... as for the egr, can i just block it off and completely remove it? what would i do with the little vacoom line on the bottom of it? just block it off too and remove the whole unit?

Yes you can block it off and remove. Just plug up/block off any thing you take off or unplug, . There are "kits" out there for this, but I generally just cut up a piece of metal and make a plate.

But you will throw a code. There are ways to trick the ECU from throwing the code, but those aren't always successful. Search around on here for those.

Not to beat a dead horse, buutttt..... are you sure you did the timing correct? Its just that I have seen multiple occasions where people are sure that they did the timing right, only to discover that they didn't.

Here's a couple of links just to be sure;

2GNT.com - Timing_Belt_Replacement
2GNT.com - PROPER_TIMING_MARK_ALIGNMENT

Though you have a 95 (they are much more prone to ECU failures than the other years), you symptons don't sound like the normal "my ECU is going" symptons. Though it could still be ECU, I'm not turning that way....yet

MB

 

[chris447]

i liked the beating of the horse icon ...thank you for the links, im gona look at it better, i first timed it just by putting marks together then it wouldnt start and i looked again in my haynes manual and realized they have to b set at that strait line from thermastat to back of motor... this has been my first timing belt job on a car, but iv done them on dirtbike and quad motors my whole life.... as far as the ecu, if that is the problem, where would i be able to get a good one for a relatively decent price.. thank you for your help

 

[tec_41]

I second the timing...It's way too easy to mess up on the 420a. I've done 4 now, and have a 50% success rate with timing

 

[chris447]

where exactly do the marks line up to? as close as possible to each other or up just a smidge

update.... ecu had been updated or changed in 1999, were the 95's recalled or somthing? mostly everything back together, taking a break befor a make some egr block off plates

ok im quite excited!!! after retiming, retorqing the thermal gasket on my intake manifold.... car still on stands and no power steering hooked up... she started !!!! thank you for all of your help guys, theres alot of nice people with good knowledge, defently glad i joined