Green XL aka 76HTA

[5150DSM]

I'd like to discuss (if possible) the Green XL (76HTA) I've searched and searched and found very little DSM related info on this turbo. I picked one these up back in December and expect to have the car on the road in the next 6-8 weeks; at which time I'll have my own info to work from. In the mean time, I would like to absorb any available info and/or related educated speculation.

I anticipate late 3k early 4k full spool, solid mid-range and a 3-5 psi drop off from 6k-7.5k (rev limit) on my set-up. (In profile) I plan to run 32-38 psi on E-85 as a max power/racing target and expect the turbo to do it. And, realistically expect 480-520awhp. My research, math, word of mouth, etc.. say I'm on par with this turbo choice but some "real world" experience would really help. Thanks in advance for the replies, please discuss away.

 

[project98dsm]

I will be following this, with possibly some input, as I'm in the process of getting my car tuned throughout the next week. I'm currently running an FP Green XL and I'll be on 93 octane until I decide on my meth injection. Mods in my profile are current. I should have some feedback hopefully before the weekend.

 

[kchaazz]

^^Nice, Im in the market myself, but I only want to run 93 octane pump piss, since E85 isnt availible in my area. Cant wait to see your results!!! Also, did you get the turbo internally gated, or are you running an external wg?

 

[5150DSM]

^^Nice, Im in the market myself, but I only want to run 93 octane pump piss, since E85 isnt availible in my area. Cant wait to see your results!!! Also, did you get the turbo internally gated, or are you running an external wg?

Kept it internal. As I understand it, FP's internal set-ups are really good. Also, I live in Cali so the Mod Nazi's here really frown on external gates and obvious "race parts". I'm fairly confident the internal gate will do what I need it to do.

 

[AK Maniak]

I'm running a Green XL with a built bottom end at 8.5 CR and a stock head with HKS 272 cams. So far I have only driven the car once since I finished my build and with the worst tune imaginable I started to see boost at 3700-3900rpms and full spool at 4200-4300. Pulls very very hard.

 

[T is for TURBO]

I'm running a Green XL with a built bottom end at 8.5 CR and a stock head with HKS 272 cams. So far I have only driven the car once since I finished my build and with the worst tune imaginable I started to see boost at 3700-3900rpms and full spool at 4200-4300. Pulls very very hard.

Just out of curiosity, does it hit hard?

 

[5150DSM]

I'm running a Green XL with a built bottom end at 8.5 CR and a stock head with HKS 272 cams. So far I have only driven the car once since I finished my build and with the worst tune imaginable I started to see boost at 3700-3900rpms and full spool at 4200-4300. Pulls very very hard.

I understand that you're not tuned yet... But am I understanding that you don't see any boost propagation below 3700?? One of my largest concerns is getting this thing up on a stock converter, which means I need to make at least some boost (5+psi) at 2-2.2K Maybe I'm pissing in the wind here. Also, since I run an auto, I'm starting to be concerned with drivability on the street. I know "big" turbo autos can be dogs down low but I wouldn't consider the Green XL as anything but a medium frame turbo. I'm running a fairly small cam to help keep the street manners reasonable but I didn't anticipate not making any power down low.

 

[kchaazz]

I'm running a Green XL with a built bottom end at 8.5 CR and a stock head with HKS 272 cams. So far I have only driven the car once since I finished my build and with the worst tune imaginable I started to see boost at 3700-3900rpms and full spool at 4200-4300. Pulls very very hard.

^^ I hate to get too far off topic, but... How are your cams set up? Did you degree them per the cam card on install, or did you install them "straight up"? How much vacuum do you pull at idle? Im just curious cause there is definitely room for improvement on spoolup by retarding the intake and advancing the exhaust a degree at a time until you find the sweet spot.

 

[AK Maniak]

I understand that you're not tuned yet... But am I understanding that you don't see any boost propagation below 3700?? One of my largest concerns is getting this thing up on a stock converter, which means I need to make at least some boost (5+psi) at 2-2.2K Maybe I'm pissing in the wind here. Also, since I run an auto, I'm starting to be concerned with drivability on the street. I know "big" turbo autos can be dogs down low but I wouldn't consider the Green XL as anything but a medium frame turbo. I'm running a fairly small cam to help keep the street manners reasonable but I didn't anticipate not making any power down low.

The tune currently on the car was for a 16g setup with E85. I bought the car in the states and had it shipped up here and the previous owner literally "tuned" it hours before the transport truck showed up. And when I say tuned it I mean, made it able to kind of run on gasoline.
What I should have said originally is that the car really starts to pull at 3700 but I am seeing boost much earlier than that. IIRC I saw 22-23 psi at 3700.

^^ I hate to get too far off topic, but... How are your cams set up? Did you degree them per the cam card on install, or did you install them "straight up"? How much vacuum do you pull at idle? Im just curious cause there is definitely room for improvement on spoolup by retarding the intake and advancing the exhaust a degree at a time until you find the sweet spot.

My cams are installed straight up. I'm seeing about -14 at idle.

Just out of curiosity, does it hit hard?

I don't have much experience with different turbo set ups but for what its worth it pulls way harder than the built 20g DSM I rode in.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
I get home from work on the 4th and as long as the roads aren't pure ice I will take a quick video of a few pulls as well as a dsmlink log. The car will hopefully be getting dyno tuned the week I get home.

*EDIT*

Found a thread of a guy who dyno'd his Green XL. gives a much better idea of what to expect in regards to spool time. The OP states that he started seeing boost at mid 2k's.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/452018-76hta-dyno-93-vs-ww-fluid-vs-meth.html

 

[5150DSM]

Yeah, thanks Maniak. I've read Matt's post over and over. That (and yours) is the only info I have been able to find. Matt and I have similar set-ups but the differences should allow me to make more power... E85, SD, bigger cams, more compression, FP mani, more pump, more injector, bigger (not necessarily better) intercooler.

As far as I know there is not really a comparable turbo out there so everything else is speculation. The 3065 wheels are similar but being BB and having different covers change a fundamental aspect and makes the comparison more or less moot.

I wish I had a better understanding of FP's 8cm cover, such as it's flow characteristics and flow capabilities... The wheel is rated for 59lbs/min but is the cover optimized for that kind of flow?

 

[AK Maniak]

Yeah, thanks Maniak. I've read Matt's post over and over. That (and yours) is the only info I have been able to find. Matt and I have similar set-ups but the differences should allow me to make more power... E85, SD, bigger cams, more compression, FP mani, more pump, more injector, bigger (not necessarily better) intercooler.

As far as I know there is not really a comparable turbo out there so everything else is speculation. The 3065 wheels are similar but being BB and having different covers change a fundamental aspect and makes the comparison more or less moot.

I wish I had a better understanding of FP's 8cm cover, such as it's flow characteristics and flow capabilities... The wheel is rated for 59lbs/min but is the cover optimized for that kind of flow?

To be honest I'm not to sure. I would call up FP and try talking to Michael. Every time I've had a question about one of their products he has helped me out quite a bit.

 

[project98dsm]

I wish I had a better understanding of FP's 8cm cover, such as it's flow characteristics and flow capabilities... The wheel is rated for 59lbs/min but is the cover optimized for that kind of flow?

This is a concern of mine...I'm looking for a turbo I can see 500awhp on methanol injection and being advertised at 59lbs/min it raises an eyebrow when I'm seeing such low numbers on dyno charts. I'm also seeing ~20-23ish psi and I'm wanting to run this turbo max-effort. I guess we'll see. I won't be fully tuned for a couple of months but I'm sure I'll see what I can get out of it on 93 for the time being.

 

[agentorange313]

I wish I had a better understanding of FP's 8cm cover, such as it's flow characteristics and flow capabilities... The wheel is rated for 59lbs/min but is the cover optimized for that kind of flow?

Do you mean turbine housing?

the 8cm housing from FP is a direct copy of the 8cm housing used with the greddy 18g. Its a MHI 8cm housing.
I actually posted on one of FPs vendor announcements about the 8cm housing, to see if it was an improvement over BEP 8cm housing. It doesn't seem like it. Its just a direct copy, dont get me wrong, its still a great housing.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/ven...es-what-would-you-like-see.html#post153123322

the TD06 style compressor cover has been proven to flow that much, the same style cover is used with the FP red which we know is a 65lbs wheel.

I will try and find a graph of the comparison between td05 vs td06 style compressor cover

those of you with the FP green XL, can you guys post a picture of the turbine wheel? I wanna see the 65mm blade design. I am assuming its like there new evoX 18k turbhine wheel, 9 blades with 65mm inducer.

 

[Tooltrt87]

I also have a green xl stock block other mods in profile. Ill be getting tuned this spring and wanted to share what happens(hp tq spool time ect...) Iv found little detail on the xl as well just mainly the old school green.
Looks like the lot of us can pioneer our turbos and give the results we were looking for.

 

[5150DSM]

Do you mean turbine housing?

Yes, sorry. I was using "cover" as a blanket term, I'll be more specific in the future.
I didn't realize FP was using a Mitsu turbine housing, I figured it was theirs.

The turbine wheel is actually an 11 blade design. Not sure on the source.

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And here's a couple shots of the compressor. Billet, 7 blade HTA.

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[Tooltrt87]

5150dsm
Isnt that the housing for the new ball bearing green?
The housing for my hta 76 looks like this...

 

[5150DSM]

5150dsm
Isn't that the housing for the new ball bearing green?
The housing for my hta 76 looks like this...

Yours looks like the picture from the website. Apparently I got the "Flow advancement port" compressor cover. Funny enough, I didn't even notice until you pointed it out; the plate on the turbo says DSM GreenXL and that's what I my receipt says. The turbo is definitely not BB. I do wonder how I ended up with that cover though... but I certainly don't mind.

 

[Tooltrt87]

Im gonna call fp tomorrow. Im very interested now. No reason not to get a flow advancement.

 

[project98dsm]

I'd like to see FP chime in on this thread, seems there's been some changes and some input from the source would surely be beneficial.

 

[AK Maniak]

Hey guys, bit of an update. Got the car tuned today so I figured I would report back with some more accurate details.
On a load bearing butt dyno the car made WHP and Jesus Christ ft/lbs torque.

All joking aside I am running 26-27psi, I start to see small amounts of boost (5ish psi) at around 2700-2900rpms. It comes on really strong at about 3700rpms with full spool around 4100rpms.

All mods are in my profile but the relevant ones are as follows:

Ported 76HTA
built 6 bolt 8.5:1 CR
stock head w/ HKS 272's installed straight up

Huge old SBR/Kinetic FMIC ultra short route kit. 2.5" piping
FP 4" intake
FP Race manifold
PR o2 housing w/ MVS recirculated.
3" Buschur turbo back exhaust.

This was on a stock 2g MAF and was tuned with DSMLink v2 on 90oct (Alaska has awesome fuel )

This turbo is a potent mother ####er. I was worried about it being a bit too laggy but now that i've been driving it around a bit it doesn't bother me at all. I can't recommend this turbo enough if you are looking for something that has relatively quick spool while still being able to flow damn near 60lbs/min.

 

[5150DSM]

Hey guys, bit of an update. Got the car tuned today so I figured I would report back with some more accurate details.
On a load bearing butt dyno the car made WHP and Jesus Christ ft/lbs torque.

All joking aside I am running 26-27psi, I start to see small amounts of boost (5ish psi) at around 2700-2900rpms. It comes on really strong at about 3700rpms with full spool around 4100rpms.

All mods are in my profile but the relevant ones are as follows:

Ported 76HTA
built 6 bolt 8.5:1 CR
stock head w/ HKS 272's installed straight up

Huge old SBR/Kinetic FMIC ultra short route kit. 2.5" piping
FP 4" intake
FP Race manifold
PR o2 housing w/ MVS recirculated.
3" Buschur turbo back exhaust.

This was on a stock 2g MAF and was tuned with DSMLink v2 on 90oct (Alaska has awesome fuel )

This turbo is a potent mother ####er. I was worried about it being a bit too laggy but now that i've been driving it around a bit it doesn't bother me at all. I can't recommend this turbo enough if you are looking for something that has relatively quick spool while still being able to flow damn near 60lbs/min.

Nice! I about spit my focking beer all over the screen. Great numbers!!

Good stuff though. I appreciate your continued contribution to the thread. If we could get you out of that frozen wasteland of pisswater fuel, you could really push your set-up with some E-fuel. I'm really looking forward to getting on the road so I can get some info out there. You just made me even more anxious. Thanks Maniak, you rock.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Nice! I about spit my focking beer all over the screen. Great numbers!!

x2. Good stuff.

 

[TJCTalon]

Man you guys are making me all jealous.

I picked up one of FP's 71 HTA with the tdo6sl2 turbine. I tried selling it to pick up the green xl but FP stopped there big sale and now its out of my price range. Oh well I guess Ill just run this turbo for now

If any of you sell one of these things PLEASE pm me. I want one

 

[AK Maniak]

Nice! I about spit my focking beer all over the screen. Great numbers!!

Good stuff though. I appreciate your continued contribution to the thread. If we could get you out of that frozen wasteland of pisswater fuel, you could really push your set-up with some E-fuel. I'm really looking forward to getting on the road so I can get some info out there. You just made me even more anxious. Thanks Maniak, you rock.

Yea it's really sad because I spend half of my life in the oil fields freezing my ass off and in return I get 90oct for 4.20 a gallonWTF

But i'm happy with the results. Scares the shit out of my girlfriend and this is my first DSM with anything bigger than a 16g so i'm having a blast. This is why I never gave up on DSM's. Can't help but smile all the way to redline

 

[Michael@FP]

Yes, sorry. I was using "cover" as a blanket term, I'll be more specific in the future.
I didn't realize FP was using a Mitsu turbine housing, I figured it was theirs.

The turbine wheel is actually an 11 blade design. Not sure on the source.

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And here's a couple shots of the compressor. Billet, 7 blade HTA.

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Looks like whoever built it put a Red compressor cover on it by accident. You got lucky that should have been a $200 upgrade.

-Michael