ECMlink Global fuel wayyy off

[lololobster]

You meant the thermal gasket for intake manifold that goes between the intake manifold and cylinder head, correct? Or you meant the throttle body gasket?
If you meant by the intake manifold gasket, then no, because the thermal intake manifold gasket goes to between the intake manifold and the cylinder head, it may possibly get burnt or melted. If you meant by the throttle body thermal gasket, then it has nothing to do with the EGR port.

no i meant from the head i understand what you mean, just a lil jb weld shoud work, no?

 

[DSMPT]

no i meant from the head i understand what you mean, just a lil jb weld shoud work, no?

Well it may work if and/or while it holds. But I recommend to tap and make it physically blocked by a plug. Keep in mind that exhaust side pressure would be higher than intake side.

 

[lololobster]

Ok update, I have fixed the vacuum leaks and installed a new ISC and nothing really changed, the car will still start up okay but shoot to full lean (19.6) with 10 seconds

 

[Justin DuBois]

Ok update, I have fixed the vacuum leaks and installed a new ISC and nothing really changed, the car will still start up okay but shoot to full lean (19.6) with 10 seconds

I noticed that the INJECTORS DO NOT PULSE with a noid light when cranking or spinning the CAS by hand but the plugs fire as they’re supposed to, why would the car run if it’s not getting a pulse?????

What is your front O2 sensor? Are you running a stock sensor for closed loop fuel trims? Can you post a log of this engine start result?

 

[lololobster]

Damn I just took apart my throttle body for shaft seals I didn't get a log, definately should have. I spoke too soon, the noid light WAS activating just VERY dim (potential issue?).
The front O2 is a Bosch 4.9 LSU I have with the AEM UEGO going into pin 76 on the ECU.

I do remember that the global was still at like -54% and deadtime 500 for it to run, using the 1600 injectors which are brand new and came with a data sheet.

The shaft seals are the last vac leak I have to address, in my mind there is no way a small shaft seal leak would require almost 20% more fuel, I have no idea what is wrong.

 

[Justin DuBois]

I went back and opened the log you provided before. There is a feature enabled that will definately disconnect the closed loop fuel trim compensation that should be happening when idling: Turn this off and try staring the car again.

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[lololobster]

That has been turned off since that log, I'll post another one as soon as that other shaft seal gets here, I have a 90 TB and didn't know they were different side to side

 

[93xsg]

Hmm for what its worth, I just got my new build idling. Same setup just new 2.4l motor instead of 2.0l. I had to open up my throttle stop on the s90 to allow enough air in for it to idle. (ISC AND FIAV DELETED). After that, it would lean out as soon as it went into closed loop, it would surge and then go into open loop and repeat. Since it was lean, I added 20% fuel to the MAF COMP sliders and now it idles right around 14.7 cycling up and down on the O2.

Sounds like I may need to adjust my global fuel as well! I have a few small leaks to address before drive.

Get those last boost leaks fixed! I bought like a 60$ amazon kit with like 8 different sizes and a hose, gauge and overpressure release. It came with block off pipes too. So I was able to block off before the TB, and test only turbo to throttle body. Then I was able to even build pressure to the manifold and test the rest of the system. I had to take my intake manifold off 4 times to seal it up. The thermal gasket I tried didn't seal for a damn. Fel-Pro always comes through tho!

 

[lololobster]

Get those last boost leaks fixed! I bought like a 60$ amazon kit with like 8 different sizes and a hose, gauge and overpressure release. It came with block off pipes too. So I was able to block off before the TB, and test only turbo to throttle body. Then I was able to even build pressure to the manifold and test the rest of the system. I had to take my intake manifold off 4 times to seal it up. The thermal gasket I tried didn't seal for a damn. Fel-Pro always comes through tho!

Thanks for the response! I have done the boost leak test and this throttle body shaft seal is the last one to hit off the list

Side note I have a 1990 throttle body with my ISC and FIAV still and at 190F with ISC at 30 and lrndidle at 144 the global fuel still needs to be almost 20% higher than it should, reguardless of the what size I put in

 

[CrackedDSM]

Everyone's got you on the right track, I just wanted to pipe in that my BC272s absolutely hate life below 1000rpm idle. There are people who have dialed their cams in with adjustable gears and gotten better idle, and others who seem to have gotten lucky but most people I know and most of my research says these cams hate idling below 1000RPM. I can force mine to idle at like 850 but it feels like it could die at any moment.


Anyway, just thought I'd pipe in with some experience so you're not too concerned.

 

[lololobster]

Everyone's got you on the right track, I just wanted to pipe in that my BC272s absolutely hate life below 1000rpm idle. There are people who have dialed their cams in with adjustable gears and gotten better idle, and others who seem to have gotten lucky but most people I know and most of my research says these cams hate idling below 1000RPM. I can force mine to idle at like 850 but it feels like it could die at any moment.


Anyway, just thought I'd pipe in with some experience so you're not too concerned.

thats good to hear, ive tried 850 and staged all the way up to 1500 rpm trying to see if would make any difference to the global but no luck
but i definately noticed that below 1000 it becomes unhappy so thats great to know!

 

[nice97civic]

Your alternator is not working at idle. It does come to life with some RPM. Does the alternator have a large pulley on it?

The TPS is not calibrated correctly, it is a .22 instead of .63. This may be related to above but I'd bet it needs attention regardless.

Your SD table needs to be reverted back to 'stock'. You are not at peak VE, which is scaled wrong anyways, at 7000rpm. I also don't see you carrying, as your table suggests, a VE in the mid 90s from 3000 to 10000rpm.

Your timing table is nuts and on top of that you're applying the timing sliders. I was wowed looking at it.

If I were you I would fix above which is put in all stock tables and zero out all sliders and sort out the alternator. After that it's a pretty easy process. Put the base fuel pressure where you think it should be, put the global fuel % where you think it should be, add some recommended deadtime I guess (this deadtime value will be incredibly temporary), be sure the spark plugs are correct and the boost is turned down.
Then do a WOT pull to minimum 5500rpm.
Adjust global fuel % and/or base fuel pressure until AFRatioEST = AEMWBGaugeR1 at 5500rpm and the value used on the SD table at that moment has the value of 100.
Then use only deadtime to make AFRatioEST = AEMWBGaugeR1 during idle.

That would get you like 90% the way there. Aggressive changes to the sliders or tables, very specifically the SD table, will put you in the weeds quickly.

I wanted to ask a question here without hijacking, but: Will the SD table show cell value 100 if the AFRatioEST and Wideband match after adjusting global or should the table be adjusted to 100 in those cells around 5500rpm and then global adjusted to get AFRatioEST and Wideband in line?

 

[Justin DuBois]

I wanted to ask a question here without hijacking, but: Will the SD table show cell value 100 if the AFRatioEST and Wideband match after adjusting global or should the table be adjusted to 100 in those cells around 5500rpm and then global adjusted to get AFRatioEST and Wideband in line?

"or should the table be adjusted to 100 in those cells around 5500rpm and then global adjusted to get AFRatioEST and Wideband in line"
Yes - the second statement is the process.

Where to put 100 in the table is a process of discovery. The stock VE peak with all the intake restrictions is closer to 4500-5000. With modifications, the VE peak changes. The trick is to locate the new peak through trial and error. Set the global fuel for AFR alignment when crossing over the 100 peak.

 

[nice97civic]

In that case, how much of the VE table should be at 100? Just a few cells in the 5500-6000rpm range?

 

[Justin DuBois]

In that case, how much of the VE table should be at 100? Just a few cells in the 5500-6000rpm range?

Also something you discover. Generally I see 1-2 rpm columns with 100, The Peak generally ramps up 100 and first achieves it somewhere around 13-16 psi. I typically run 100 (full rich) all the way into the highest boost range until I can get a max boost pull to discover how much it falls off above 13-16 psi.

 

[lololobster]

a little update

i found my throttle body had ALOT of leaking air around the butterfly valve
OLD:

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NEW:

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i have also done another boost least test with no issues found

i will post a log that is showing the car now wants to surge at idle from 1400-1800 rpm
i have tested the ISC, im pretty convinced its in the tune but at this point i dont know where to look.

ive put the FIC 1050s back in it, and youll notice a cel THAT I FIXED AFTER THIS LOG from the TPS that changed nothing once i adjusted it after

 

[Justin DuBois]

Your ISC is still trying to remove air as your engine warms up.

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I saw this secondary map checkbox enabled

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You can enable the Lock MDP checkbox

I think the most concern I have for your tune is with the modified DA tables - Like this one:

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and this one:

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And why are your open loop threshold tables modified?

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What is up with those DA tables?

 

[lololobster]

Your ISC is still trying to remove air as your engine warms up.

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I saw this secondary map checkbox enabled

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You can enable the Lock MDP checkbox

I think the most concern I have for your tune is with the modified DA tables - Like this one:

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and this one:

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And why are your open loop tables modified?

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What is up with those DA tables?

this was how EvanPerformanceAcademy recommended to set these tables in order to get a baseline idle set with speed density

 

[Stapl3]

Can you link where they said to make the timing table like that?

 

[lololobster]

this was how EvanPerformanceAcademy recommended to set these tables in order to get a baseline idle set with speed density

i cant link it to you as its a paid for subscribtion but i can give a screenshot of him editing

basically, his point is that in boost (~1.00+) he wont have to worry about engine damage from too advanced of timing and he adds it back in as needed, the 20 degrees at vacuum portion is to account for the slightly larger cams, he notes it will lose torque with that much advance but will again bring it back as needed

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[Justin DuBois]

20deg ignition timing at idle isn't helping your idle surge, I'll say that.

I don't know the process this tuner is using- but you don't want to leave it as is. What are your plans?

 

[Imback]

You have a lot going on as far as getting the car tuned . I would recommend resetting the ecu back to stock and start with basic adjustments. The method that evan is taking is the approach of making a timing table from scratch. This is commonly used on stand alones that don't have a base map to work off of. I know sometimes it's discouraging hearing this but your getting confused with so many changes. If your set on tuning this yourself watch some of the videos explaining how to get the car or set up or read through the wiki.

 

[lololobster]

20deg ignition timing at idle isn't helping your idle surge, I'll say that.

I don't know the process this tuner is using- but you don't want to leave it as is. What are your plans?

I was using EPA to see if i could get it running smooth enough to put some test miles on before i get it tuned, i dont want to bring the car and say its ready to test with a problem still lurking, rix racing will be tuning it once its ready i just dont want to waste his time

would recommend resetting the ecu back to stock and start with basic adjustments.

Ive been thinking about trying this and dont know why i havent yet, and im not really set on tuning it myself, im just trying to make sure its ready when someone does tune it

Thanks for responding guys!!

 

[Justin DuBois]

You have a lot going on as far as getting the car tuned . I would recommend resetting the ecu back to stock and start with basic adjustments. The method that evan is taking is the approach of making a timing table from scratch. This is commonly used on stand alones that don't have a base map to work off of. I know sometimes it's discouraging hearing this but your getting confused with so many changes. If your set on tuning this yourself watch some of the videos explaining how to get the car or set up or read through the wiki.

Stock is a good place to start for the ECU. I think of it like this... Stock was made to be good enough to hit the marketing targets, and safe for total bone heads behind the wheel. Should be safe enough.

(and you can calibrate it, and leave the tuning part for the dyno)

 

[SixBolt_16G]

Ive been thinking about trying this and dont know why i havent yet, and im not really set on tuning it myself, im just trying to make sure its ready when someone does tune it

Thanks for responding guys!!

I had a shop give me back a half-assed tune and starting completely over with stock maps was the best move. Didnt take long to get the car running right with help from here and the path I went down was way less complicated than what youve got going on, nor have i had to make any of the changes that the shop was making. Im just now getting into making slight adjustments to the timing map. Otherwise, the car has been running really well just with adjust global fuel, deadtime and the VE map adjustments.