ECMlink Global fuel wayyy off

[lololobster]

hello everyone, ive hit another snag trying to tune my first car, when trying to set my fuel settings it seems i need to set the global fuel to almost half of what is required in order for the car to run

2.0 built 6 bolt
jmf intake with o-rings
43 psi at AFPR (fuel pump always on car not running)
a set of 1050 low-z FIC injectors using the data for voltage scaling and -57% global(-45 or so for it to start)
1600cc low-z AUS injectors with data for voltage scaling and -72% global(-60 for it to start 450 deadtime)
0.24 airflowper rev at 190 degrees
base timing and ignition timing set with timing light
wideband matches my datalog

i was battleing a vacuum leak on the throttle body with the wrong gasket that i have fixed, my thinking is if i still had a vacuum leak it would show in the airflowperrev? maybe im wrong either way im gonna smoke test it tomorrow

ill post a log with the 1050s its pretty consistant throughtout but 500 secs-560 is what ill refer to i suppose

140 secs - 165 secs is when i tried to put it at the suggested global

i didnt log the 1600s as soon as i saw it needed the same fuel correction i stopped

TIA

 

[Ludachris]

@Kevin Jewer
@kenuwine4g63
@dacowgod
@perrytheplatypus157

If you don't get it figured out, you could always reach out directly to those users I tagged. I'm working on collecting a list of all remote tuners who specialized in the DSM platform to make it easier for people to get help:

DSM Remote Tuning

A comprehensive list of currently active remote tuning specialists and local tuning shops that are well known in the DSM community for their services.

www.dsmtuners.com

 

[lololobster]

The thank you I appreciate it, I’m gonna try a couple things today if they don’t work I just might message some of those gurus

 

[Justin DuBois]

The thank you I appreciate it, I’m gonna try a couple things today if they don’t work I just might message some of those gurus

I looked at the log, what I saw was idling.
If you are adjusting your AFR for idle (closed loop operation) Global Deadtime adjustment will help you reduce your Combined FT.

If you are trying to set your Global Fuel - The first and only time you need the calculator is to get a starting Global Fuel value, which will almost always be too lean. To set the Global Fuel value , you need to collect data from a WOT 3rd gear pull, starting below 2000RPM all the way to 5000-6000 rpm. You set the Global fuel based on what is happening on the Wideband at 5000-6000 rpm. Use a conservative boost setting (12-16psi)

 

[lololobster]

So basically I’m just overreacting, not surprised

I set global fuel but it seems to get the correct afr and combined fuel trims I need to set the deadtimes way higher than anyone else with the same injectors, could this be due to different builds? I had to almost double the recommended deadtime of 330 to almost 500

 

[Justin DuBois]

So basically I’m just overreacting, not surprised

I set global fuel but it seems to get the correct afr and combined fuel trims I need to set the deadtimes way higher than anyone else with the same injectors, could this be due to different builds? I had to almost double the recommended deadtime of 330 to almost 500

Eh - 330- 500 its not that crazy, but 1000rpm idle? Can you get an 850rpm idle?

 

[lololobster]

I’ll try, I think it was sputtering when I did, I was told with the bc272 it should be higher but 1000 is too much?

 

[Justin DuBois]

I’ll try, I think it was sputtering when I did, I was told with the bc272 it should be higher but 1000 is too much?

I see -The cams may idle better at 1000 right now, but it is worth trying it lower at some point. Revisit the idle after you have established a Global Fuel fuel setup. I see you are setup up to run Speed Density - but before you switched to speed density were you running on MAF? The MAF Comp corrections in the log look like you were trying to add fuel across the board. Is this a stock MAF?

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[lololobster]

I see -The cams may idle better at 1000 right now, but it is worth trying it lower at some point. Revisit the idle after you have established a Global Fuel fuel setup. I see you are setup up to run Speed Density - but before you switched to speed density were you running on MAF? The MAF Comp corrections in the log look like you were trying to add fuel across the board. Is this a stock MAF?

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So this is fresh build and I’m using part of the tune from a different car so those settings are left over, with “base Maf type” set to SD do I need to bring those sliders down to 0?

 

[Justin DuBois]

So this is fresh build and I’m using part of the tune from a different car so those settings are left over, with “base Maf type” set to SD do I need to bring those sliders down to 0?

You don't HAVE to change the MAF setup, because you enabled the checkbox to disable MAF Comp with speed density. I would zero it out myself. This way if there is a glitch with the checkbox control, you will still have the same result with 0 corrections applied.

 

[lololobster]

You don't HAVE to change the MAF setup, because you enabled the checkbox to disable MAF Comp with speed density. I would zero it out myself. This way if there is a glitch with the checkbox control, you will still have the same result with 0 corrections applied.

I’ll definitely do that, another question, is there a way see or get a hint of a vacuum leak in the datalog?

Also I was thinking yesterday with the slightly bigger cans maybe I need to bring airflowperrev up a little bit (.28-.32) and see what that does for deadtimes

 

[Justin DuBois]

I’ll definitely do that, another question, is there a way see or get a hint of a vacuum leak in the datalog?

Also I was thinking yesterday with the slightly bigger cans maybe I need to bring airflowperrev up a little bit (.28-.32) and see what that does for deadtimes

Vacuum leak would impact several areas, there is no one thing that would point you at a leak (IMO). A boost leak test will also identify vacuum leaks. Have you done a boost leak test before? If not, you can make a fitting from Home Depot parts for your air compressor. Mine looks like this:

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[lololobster]

Vacuum leak would impact several areas, there is no one thing that would point you at a leak (IMO). A boost leak test will also identify vacuum leaks. Have you done a boost leak test before? If not, you can make a fitting from Home Depot parts for your air compressor. Mine looks like this:

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Yes I tested up until the throttle body, i couldn’t get a way to properly seal the valves past the TB, im going to smoke test it once i get home in a few hours

Also thank you for the quick replies I really appreciate the help

 

[Justin DuBois]

Yes I tested up until the throttle body, i couldn’t get a way to properly seal the valves past the TB, im going to smoke test it once i get home in a few hours

Also thank you for the quick replies I really appreciate the help

Sure, slow work day.
The piston rings should hold any air leaking past the intake valves. Maybe you have a large leak around your injectors or the intake manifold gasket?

 

[lololobster]

Sure, slow work day.
The piston rings should hold any air leaking past the intake valves. Maybe you have a large leak around your injectors or the intake manifold gasket?

The injector seals are new but I’ll do another test to verify, the intake manifold is a JMF unit with the orings and I have a torque solutions thermal gasket for the intake I’m gonna throw on to make sure

So what it sounds like is I need to bleed the brakes and go on a low load road test and see what she does

 

[Justin DuBois]

The injector seals are new but I’ll do another test to verify, the intake manifold is a JMF unit with the orings and I have a torque solutions thermal gasket for the intake I’m gonna throw on to make sure

So what it sounds like is I need to bleed the brakes and go on a low load road test and see what she does

I had new injector seals that leaked, mostly due to a difference in injector design.

 

[lololobster]

I had new injector seals that leaked, mostly due to a difference in injector design.

Yea I’ll double check but the seals came with the new injectors custom from AUS, they’re local fortunately

 

[Stapl3]

Your alternator is not working at idle. It does come to life with some RPM. Does the alternator have a large pulley on it?

The TPS is not calibrated correctly, it is a .22 instead of .63. This may be related to above but I'd bet it needs attention regardless.

Your SD table needs to be reverted back to 'stock'. You are not at peak VE, which is scaled wrong anyways, at 7000rpm. I also don't see you carrying, as your table suggests, a VE in the mid 90s from 3000 to 10000rpm.

Your timing table is nuts and on top of that you're applying the timing sliders. I was wowed looking at it.

If I were you I would fix above which is put in all stock tables and zero out all sliders and sort out the alternator. After that it's a pretty easy process. Put the base fuel pressure where you think it should be, put the global fuel % where you think it should be, add some recommended deadtime I guess (this deadtime value will be incredibly temporary), be sure the spark plugs are correct and the boost is turned down.
Then do a WOT pull to minimum 5500rpm.
Adjust global fuel % and/or base fuel pressure until AFRatioEST = AEMWBGaugeR1 at 5500rpm and the value used on the SD table at that moment has the value of 100.
Then use only deadtime to make AFRatioEST = AEMWBGaugeR1 during idle.

That would get you like 90% the way there. Aggressive changes to the sliders or tables, very specifically the SD table, will put you in the weeds quickly.

 

[lololobster]

Your alternator is not working at idle. It does come to life with some RPM. Does the alternator have a large pulley on it?

The TPS is not calibrated correctly, it is a .22 instead of .63. This may be related to above but I'd bet it needs attention regardless.

Your SD table needs to be reverted back to 'stock'. You are not at peak VE, which is scaled wrong anyways, at 7000rpm. I also don't see you carrying, as your table suggests, a VE in the mid 90s from 3000 to 10000rpm.

Your timing table is nuts and on top of that you're applying the timing sliders. I was wowed looking at it.

If I were you I would fix above which is put in all stock tables and zero out all sliders and sort out the alternator. After that it's a pretty easy process. Put the base fuel pressure where you think it should be, put the global fuel % where you think it should be, add some recommended deadtime I guess (this deadtime value will be incredibly temporary), be sure the spark plugs are correct and the boost is turned down.
Then do a WOT pull to minimum 5500rpm.
Adjust global fuel % and/or base fuel pressure until AFRatioEST = AEMWBGaugeR1 at 5500rpm and the value used on the SD table at that moment has the value of 100.
Then use only deadtime to make AFRatioEST = AEMWBGaugeR1 during idle.

That would get you like 90% the way there. Aggressive changes to the sliders or tables, very specifically the SD table, will put you in the weeds quickly.

The alternator is used with a stock pulley, I noticed it wasn’t giving proper voltage at idle but since the problem a lean issue I thought the low voltage, if anything, would increase fuel, regardless it requires addressing

The tps has been fixed since this log

Context for the MINoct timing table, I live in AZ (120° in summer) and we only have 91 oct and on the car that this tune was previously set for it had a SMIC all resulting in my Dyno tuner pulling a bunch of timing, I then upgraded the turbo and did some “tuning” by further reducing timing whenever I saw knock with the bigger turbo, the car ran 10.9 afr still would knock some with that table, further showing that I’ve probably never had a proper tune on my cars, also the slider table is news to me I just assumed that was stock

The maxoct timing map was recommended my Evan’s performance to get a baseline timing table set up

I will reset the VE table, I used EvansPerformanceAcademys table because he was tuning a car with similar mods

My biggest issue is that for the car to idle at 14.7 i have to bring global fuel from -57 to -42ish than the calculated value with higher deadtimes than recommended
either way I’m gonna fix all these issues and see what happens

Thank you so much for the input

 

[Stapl3]

91oct in 120*f, wow. I would be running as rich as I could at wot. You're at 11.2 now, I'd be going back to a stock 9.6 table and seeing how fat I could from there without making smoke out the tailpipe.

 

[lololobster]

91oct in 120*f, wow. I would be running as rich as I could. You're at 11.2 now, I'd be going back to a stock 9.6 and seeing how fat I could from there without making smoke out the tailpipe.

11.2 is what I changed it to for this car, I think was 10.1 or 10.9 but yea she was pingin

 

[Justin DuBois]

11.2 is what I changed it to for this car, I think was 10.1 or 10.9 but yea she was pingin

91oct - I would target 10.5:1 for WOT

 

[DSMPT]

I tested up until the throttle body, i couldn’t get a way to properly seal the valves past the TB,

That's normal. There is no moment that all cylinders get seal by valves. It depends on cams and valve timing but usually it would be able to keep the air pressure for about 30 sec to 1 min or so. If you hear a lot of air coming from the exhaust pipe, then one cylinder is still in overlap event, that's where you should avoid to run a boost leak test because the air pressure gets dropped faster. In that case you would advance the cams a little bit, probably you would see that it would start keeping the air pressure a bit longer.

I have a torque solutions thermal gasket for the intake I’m gonna throw on to make sure

Don't forget to block off the EGR port on cylinder #4, otherwise it may burn/melt the thermal intake manifold gasket.

 

[lololobster]

on't forget to block off the EGR port on cylinder #4, otherwise it may burn/melt the thermal intake manifold gasket.

shouldnt the JMF intake take care of that?

also i did anothe BLT and found the BISS leaking a little bit but not enough to explain what i need to do to get the car stoich

 

[DSMPT]

shouldnt the JMF intake take care of that?

You meant the thermal gasket for intake manifold that goes between the intake manifold and cylinder head, correct? Or you meant the throttle body gasket?
If you meant by the intake manifold gasket, then no, because the thermal intake manifold gasket goes to between the intake manifold and the cylinder head, it may possibly get burnt or melted. If you meant by the throttle body thermal gasket, then it has nothing to do with the EGR port.