Getting Ready for the 2006 Race Season...................

[Greg Collier]

California Speedway NASA schedule just came out. The testing schedule shows in Super Unlimited (4) GT3 Grand AM Porsches, (2) 993 twin turbo Porsches, (4) GTS Vipers, (1) EVO-8, and a frigging Plymouth Laser WTF This is just Friday testing, who knows how many more cars will be actually racing on Saturday and Sunday.

Looks like the Super Unlimited race group is running with the American Iron Mustangs and the Viper/Vette Challenge... a rousing group of racers

Greg

 

[Slow old poop]

I bought my wife a Dodge Stealth R/T, so twin turbo and AWD. The car had 3 inch straight pipes and sounded bitchen! I loved driving that car and even thought about racing it when she lost interest. The damn thing just weighed so much. It definitely took the corners with ease but it just didn't have the response that I've been use to.Greg

When properly set up, those TT AWD VR4/Stealths are truly "bitchen" track cars. All they really need is brakes. In stock form, they run with stock 911s, M3s and Z06es; when modified, they really honk, and there ain't many license-plate cars that can keep up. The jury is still out on which is faster --my old VR4 or my 90 Eclipse. My VR4 was pulling about 550-600 hp, and it would scream down the straights. The Eclipse doesn't have the massive hp, but it comes on strong and steady. I was hitting about 120 into Turn 1 at Midamerica Motorplex with the VR4; with the Eclipse, I was hitting about 115. And that's with the old engine. Who knows, with the 2.3 stroker?

I never passed a Viper with the VR4; I passed two Vipers with the Eclipse.

Because the VR4 weighed so much, it ate brake pads. That was just about the only track problem I had, other than the high cost of keeping it running (one engine, five transmissions). I finally decided that I could not afford to campaign a VR4, so I bought the Eclipse. I wonder, every now and then, whether that was the correct decision. Gawd, did that car FLY! I sold it to a guy in California, who loaned it to a buddy who was in contention for a NASA TT 1st place trophy, but broke his car. He ran my old VR4 in the last race, and won his regional trophy. So, if you see a low, mean-looking black VR4 (see photo) in your mirrors out there in Californy, that's my old car.

Rich

 

[Slapnut]

All My problems are solved!!!! HAHA not really, I found a 91 mits eclipse 2.0dohn n/t 5spd that runs with a bad trans in Cali Now I have to figure out how to get there, fix the car and get it home. It is for sale for $100 GAAHHH and this sucks cause I can not find a car here in MN or WI for under $1000 that runs

 

[tstkl]

you do know that the 1996 dodge stealth rt/tt dropped like 200 lbs over the 1994 model just from removing pointless crap. they tried to lower the price to better sales, they ended up making a 200 lb lighter car that was cheaper, but now worth more than any other stealth, and since it was lighter, better overall in my opinion. no aws (who wants same phase all wheel steering at the track anyways, do you guys agree that that would hurt performance rather than help at the track? or am I wrong?) no more rear trunk cover, (go to http://www.daveblack.net/asp/3SiSpecs.asp and looks for what else was cut)

I'm sure a fully stripped 3/s could get near 3000 lbs, and they can make so much power too. I mean the world record holder in the 1/4 mile didn't even have cams or anything, thats why no one talks about them, because there so expensive, no one mods them much. they are like us, except they have no cheap options, so they have to wait to get the money for each mod. its sad that such a good platform has only gone 10.7 or something in the 1/4 mile. I'm sure a decked out stripped tt could drop into the 9's easy.

btw, anyone know of some way I could race that doesnt cost 149 dollars per race. I mean, I'm sure I could do my HPDE 1 this year, then by next year my HPDE 2, and so on. maybe theres something out there (thinking autocross) thats cheaper that I could do more often. Ill deffinatly do the HPDE 1 asap though. need the funds for it though.

 

[Slow old poop]

you do know that the 1996 dodge stealth rt/tt dropped like 200 lbs over the 1994 model just from removing pointless crap. they tried to lower the price to better sales, they ended up making a 200 lb lighter car that was cheaper, but now worth more than any other stealth, and since it was lighter, better overall in my opinion. no aws (who wants same phase all wheel steering at the track anyways, do you guys agree that that would hurt performance rather than help at the track? or am I wrong?) no more rear trunk cover, (go to http://www.daveblack.net/asp/3SiSpecs.asp and looks for what else was cut)

I'm sure a fully stripped 3/s could get near 3000 lbs, and they can make so much power too. I mean the world record holder in the 1/4 mile didn't even have cams or anything, thats why no one talks about them, because there so expensive, no one mods them much. they are like us, except they have no cheap options, so they have to wait to get the money for each mod. its sad that such a good platform has only gone 10.7 or something in the 1/4 mile. I'm sure a decked out stripped tt could drop into the 9's easy.

The AWS actually works. I had a 94 VR4, which had all the techie goodies. The AWS helps on turn in, and it is transparent to the driver.

A fully stripped VR4 gets down to about 2800 lb.

The record holder is Jack T, with a 9 something at 145 mph. Lots of 3000GTs are in the low 10s. Jack was the first to get into the 9s.

Max power is about 1000 hp, with huge turbos, NOS, etc. Mine was about 550-600 hp w/o NOS and only 15G turbos.

They are expensive to run, but a stocker is a wonderful track car. Like I said, all it needs is brakes.

3000GTers are like DSMers -- they are starting to get into road racing big time, so you'll undoubtedly see more of them at NASA events and HPDEs. Parts are more expensive, but those sumbitches really fly.

 

[Slow old poop]

btw, anyone know of some way I could race that doesnt cost 149 dollars per race. I mean, I'm sure I could do my HPDE 1 this year, then by next year my HPDE 2, and so on. maybe theres something out there (thinking autocross) thats cheaper that I could do more often. Ill deffinatly do the HPDE 1 asap though. need the funds for it though.

I don't want to bust your bubble, but track racing ain"t cheap. Figure on $1,000+ for a two-day weekend far from home. That covers gas ($100), hotel for two nights ($150) , meals ($100) , entry fee ($300-400), brake pads ($200), 1/4 of a set of tires ($200 for an $800 set of tires).

That assumes you drive to and from the track and don't break nuttin'.

Rich

 

[Greg Collier]

I don't want to bust your bubble, but track racing ain"t cheap. Figure on $1,000+ for a two-day weekend far from home. That covers gas ($100), hotel for two nights ($150) , meals ($100) , entry fee ($300-400), brake pads ($200), 1/4 of a set of tires ($200 for an $800 set of tires).

That assumes you drive to and from the track and don't break nuttin'.

Rich

NO COMMENT!!






x's 4

 

[Zero Bar]

This is why for now autocross is still my mainstay, budget restricts HPDE to just the 3 closest tracks I can drive to until I get a truck and trailer(and more money).

 

[Slow old poop]

This is why for now autocross is still my mainstay, budget restricts HPDE to just the 3 closest tracks I can drive to until I get a truck and trailer(and more money).

I agree. That's why I like the one-day events with outlaw groups. For example, we can run for one day at Midamerica Motorplex near Omaha for $100 per car, one night in a hotel, half the meals and gas, and less wear and tear on the car, pads and tires. One day like that is more like $300 instead of $1000. Unfortunately, it's not any kind of organized deal, just hot lapping, so there's no fender-to-fender racing.

 

[tstkl]

guess this site needs to be updated then:
http://dynamicracing.com/customer/home.php
I always thought matt had the fastest 3/s out there. Hes a god on 3si.org.

I guess its all autocross for me then. I'll do my HPDE 1 sometime in the summer maybe.

any autocross leagues I should know about? like nasax, .

 

[eclipse2via]

I guess its all autocross for me then. I'll do my HPDE 1 sometime in the summer maybe.

any autocross leagues I should know about? like nasax, .

Since you're in the BA check out some local open track groups that run at less expensive tracks like Thunder Hill and Buttonwillow. I spend $150 to $200 in fees for open tracking 3 to 5 times a year. That's for 6 or 7 20 to 30 minute sessions, that's a lot of track time. I usually mix pump and race gas which increases my out of pocket costs. Stick to aggressive street pads and tune for pump to keep costs down and it's fairly manageable.

IMO NASA isn't such a great deal unless you really need basic instruction or you run in the non-HPDE competition classes. There's just too many idiots and too little track time.

Auto-x is cheap but a lot of downtime for just a couple of minute long runs and the skills don't necessarily crossover to open tracking.

 

[Slapnut]

I just wanted to say, to the Guys going racen this weekend, be safe... God's speed and don't break...



and BTW Win!

 

[terefic181]

I just wanted to say, to the Guys going racen this weekend, be safe... God's speed and don't break...



and BTW Win!

Tim, it could be interesting at Cal Speedway this weekend. They're calling for a snow level of 1500 ft and the track is about 1200ft. I'm not racing of course but do plan on runnning HPDE. Greg and the race groups could possibly have snow races if it comes down any further. BRRRRRRRRRR!!! in Southern California!WTF


Tom

 

[Slow old poop]

guess this site needs to be updated then:
http://dynamicracing.com/customer/home.php
I always thought matt had the fastest 3/s out there. Hes a god on 3si.org.
.

I stand corrected. Jack T broke Matt Monet's record last year, but it wasn't a 9. It was in the 10s. Looks like Matt got it back. Not bad for a 4000 lb car, though.

Rich

 

[tstkl]

I stand corrected. Jack T broke Matt Monet's record last year, but it wasn't a 9. It was in the 10s. Looks like Matt got it back. Not bad for a 4000 lb car, though.

Rich

I love how cam gears are a big mod to these guys,
"This car also had a stock shortblock, stock cams, and stock camgears!"

btw, how much does it cost to watch my good man greg if he ever comes to any events up my way? super unlimited sounds interesting, and it would be great to see a bunch of vipers, with a laser in the midst of it all. Did you choose yellow so people could at least recongnize you as, "THAT YELLOW BLURRR THAT PASSED ME" once they finally make it to the finish line too. We all know you'll be waiting there for them, and I'm sure they will hate to find out that a 4 cylinder fwd car just whooped on them.

I find it hillarious that these nascar guys have it down to a science and make little changes here and there to their chassi/suspension mods, and then do hours of testing, while you just changed your entire car, and have had (as far as I know) one day of practice and plan on racing on used tires. And we all know that if you won last year, with all the new power you'll have you should do very well this year as well. I think we need to remember this thread is about gregs racing season this year, as I keep getting off topic, along with a few others on here. Greg, hope you do well in your first race of the season, good luck!!!!

 

[Slow old poop]

I find it hillarious that these nascar guys have it down to a science and make little changes here and there to their chassi/suspension mods, and then do hours of testing, while you just changed your entire car, and have had (as far as I know) one day of practice and plan on racing on used tires.

The NASCAR guys have specific cars for specific kinds of tracks. Each driver on a top team has 18-24 cars. I forget exactly how it breaks out, but he has three cars each for superspeedways, speedways, mile tracks, short tracks and road courses. One car of each track type is a fully instrumented test vehicle (240 sensors!). A testing team runs that car at "similar" tracks. For example, if there is an upcoming race at a mile track, the team will go test at a mile track that is not on the schedule, such as Milwaukee. Two cars go to the race.

From what I saw during a tour of Joe Gibbs Racing, the cars are set up according to how it ran on a particular track the previous year, plus any demon tweaks discovered during testing. Obviously, if the car won and suffered no damage, it is set up exactly the same way the following year. When the car returns from a race, it is measured up one side and down the other, and all readings are recorded for posterity. Then it is completely torn apart and rebuilt.

There are only a half-dozen teams (with 12-18 drivers) in NASCAR capable of winning -- Rousch, Gibbs, Childress, Penske, Ganassi, and one or two others. The rest, like Petty, are window dressing. They will never win again. It costs $12 million for a major sponsorship on one car (hood, fenders and paint scheme), plus more for the lesser locations. The budget for a top race operation is more than $100 million a year. And this is really first-class stuff, too. Gibbs, for example, has a CMM (ccordinate measuring machine) for checking parts. The same CMM is used by only two other teams in the world--Ferrari and McClaren.

The era of the greasy NASCAR backyard race shop is over. NASCAR racing operations are on a par with F1 teams in terms of facilities, equipment and personnel. It is no longer a sport, it's a business.

What we do is still a sport.
Rich

 

[underradar92]

All that science for a field of identical cars with a choice of headlight stickers btw. Jack went 10.41 @138.76... so far.

 

[Slow old poop]

All that science for a field of identical cars with a choice of headlight stickers btw. Jack went 10.41 @138.76... so far.

Yes, except for the engine and some body panels, the various cars --regardless of make and model --are virtually identical. One fabricator (Hollman & Moody? Not sure.) builds about 90% of the rolling chassis (frame, cage, suspension) used in NASCAR. One or two teams build their own, but Gibbs and other top teams buy chassis from that one supplier. The engines resemble Ford, Chevy, and Pontiac only because the basic dimensions are similar. Most of the engines are fabricated by the teams from scratch.

Gibbs employs a bunch of tin benders to make the body panels. These mostly old grizzled gray-haired farts spin those English wheels and tin snips to fab up steel body panels that fit to within a few thousandths of an inch. Gibbs has complete sets of NASCAR templates. He pays those old tin benders $100,000+ per year, because metal bending is a lost art.

The area around Charlotte has become similar to Woking, England, where most of the F1 cars are built -- dozens of specialty race shops exist in the Charlotte area to build parts, fab stuff, blend specialty lubricants*, etc.

In NASCAR-- the ultimate in spec-car racing-- testing, instrumentation, data logging, car preparation and setup really pay off. It costs millions to do it, which is why the lesser operations -- like Petty -- don't win any more.
---------
*No NASCAR cars actually run the oil they have on their fender decals. All lubricants are custom blended from a witch's brew of synthetic stuff by specialty lubricant shops, and don't even resemble the oil on the fender decals. Havoline and Mobil 1 make fine oil, but they are not used in any race cars.
----------
Sorry about this NASCAR rant. I got to see the inside of a NASCAR operation once, and have been waiting to tell the story to people who might care (like you folks, I hope). In our racing endeavors, all kinds of weird information like this might come in handy some day, in some perverted manner. Ya never know.

 

[mavisky]

There's a good article by Brock Yates in one of the new motor trend's or car and driver's or whatever where he talks about the cost of racing nowadays in these spec classes like nascar and f1 and such.

The rulebooks make them all look alike and act alike and do everything alike that you have to spend millions of dollars to find the little percentages that people in other racing series wouldn't care about and that makes it ungodly expensive to win.

A nascar guy will cringe at the loss of 1hp, a LMP car in the alms or similar wouldn't even notice it. The nascar and other spec classes like F1 are picking up that .001% improvement that costs them $100,000 because it may actually be that .001% that wins the race. The problem is that only 4 teams and 8 cars can truly spend the money to find those last few percentage points which means repetitive winning streaks. Nascar is now about the drivers, it used to be about the cars.

ALMS, NASA, SCCA, BTCC, DTM for life.

 

[Slow old poop]

The rulebooks make them all look alike and act alike and do everything alike that you have to spend millions of dollars to find the little percentages that people in other racing series wouldn't care about and that makes it ungodly expensive to win.
ALMS, NASA, SCCA, BTCC, DTM for life.

\
I am so old I remember the Chapparalls and UOP Shadows from the old days of Can-Am racing, where these cars would show up with so many innovations that the tech inspectors went crazy trying to find ways to ban them. Problem was, guys like Jim Hall could read the rules, too. They had to write new rules to ban:

Moveable wings. I watched the Shadow bang on the brakes at the end of a straight and the front and rar wings angled up to apply downforce. As soon as he got back on the gas, the wings went back down.

Vacuum car: The Chapparal had a lawnmower engine mounted in the back driving two huge fans that sucked air from under the car and pretty much glued it to the track.

Those were the two I remember most, but those cars were legends. Today, such innovation is banned in pro racing.

Now, how can I install a lawn mower engine in the DSM?
I see moveable wings in the JC Whitney catalog. A simple electric motor and...

Rich

 

[terefic181]

Here's a picture from Greg's 1st warm up run at Cal Speedway this morning with the new engine and setup. Mitch flew in this morning and got to the track around 9:00am , Scott Grey got there about the same time. Surprisingly we actually had some sunshine for a while but it was misting rain as I left the track. Everything is going pretty well, and Greg seems to be very pleased with the setup. I've got to finish packing and head back to the track. Maybe I'll have some new photo's tonight.



Tom

 

[mavisky]

Best of luck guys.

 

[terefic181]

Best of luck guys.

Thank's Kyle. I just went outside to load up the tool box etc., and it started hailing.WTF

I guess this is going to get interesting.

Tom

 

[logic]

Here's a picture from Greg's 1st warm up run at Cal Speedway this morning with the new engine and setup.

Kickass. Did Greg manage to actually get some dyno time, or are they tuning it out on the speedway?

Good luck, guys!

 

[terefic181]

Kickass. Did Greg manage to actually get some dyno time...

I don't want to take away from Greg's upcoming commentary, So I'll just say, yes they dyno'd prior to putting the car on the track today.

I'm outa here.


Tom