Gas tank swap options.... let's discuss this

[All_Boost16G]

yea welding on a gas tank is very safe, if you make it safe. If i remeber right you have to let it air out for so long then wash it with water, or some other solution, but it is possible.

 

[MarcVIII]

Not sure on fitment, but I know its big. Look at a Lincoln MarkVIII (93-98) gas tank. They are plastic and have a larger capacity. They have two segregated sections for a driveshaft to fit between them.

 

[Savage Talon]

I've been in Vegas for the last week on business and I will get picks of the inside of the tank asap. It will give you guy's a better idea of what is going on in there. There is a baffle spot welded on the top and a bowl that the pump sits in welded to the bottom. Thats it, the return dumps into the bowl and thats how it keeps fuel in there on the left hand turns. But when the bowl runs dry due to slosh so does the return, so no more new fuel in the bowl. Thats why in right handers it runs out of fuel.

 

[Savage Talon]

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Let's brainstorm and come up with some idea's, some will be good, some will be bad, it does'nt matter.

 

[All_Boost16G]

Well my idea won't work i think. If you weld a bung in the bottomw corner of any side, when you turn the oppsite way the fuel will starve the pickup unless you have 1/2 a tank or so. It also looks like a pickup throught the top would not work. How about a welded 10an or bigger bung in the bottom in the middle of the tank front or back. the bowl should not matter because the fuel will still be around the out side. Unless you can gut that tank and take the baffles and that center section out and well it shut.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Why not just get rid of the bowl all together. My idea would be to weld a piece of metal on a 30* angle or so, and run a an fitting out the back of the tank. So the return and send fuel always to the back of the tank, and your natural momentum would force the fuel back as well. I can photoshop a side view. Give me a little while

James

 

[donk]

Why not do this?

The Fuel Sump

/A

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Thats basically what i was trying to say. Not just not with the dual pump. Im not sure that is necessary.

James

 

[Savage Talon]

A sump forces you to go external pumps. I might do that for the future but I am happy with my dual in tank Wally's right now. What if I mounted a stock pump on the right and had it pump into the bowl. It seems like that would be a simple solution. Another question... will a sump fix the starvation issue? If it didn't it would happen on both right and left corners instead of just left handers making the problem worse.

 

[turbotalon1g]

Maybe if the sump was wide enough then it would be fine even on turns, plus how low do you guys plan on running the fuel down.

 

[Ludachris]

Maybe if the sump was wide enough then it would be fine even on turns, plus how low do you guys plan on running the fuel down.

I'd like to run it down to 1/8 of a tank without issues. A friend of mine can do this in his Integra (with stock fuel system) with no problems. I'd like to be able to run low fuel loads. As it is right now I get fuel starvation in left-hand turns starting at a hair under half a tank. That means I have to start out with at least 7/8 of a tank before a 20 minute run on a road course if I want to avoid that - which makes the car pretty heavy.

This is why I asked about the possibilities of swapping in a different tank, like maybe one from an Integra.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

I'd like to run it down to 1/8 of a tank without issues. A friend of mine can do this in his Integra (with stock fuel system) with no problems. I'd like to be able to run low fuel loads. As it is right now I get fuel starvation in left-hand turns starting at a hair under half a tank. That means I have to start out with at least 7/8 of a tank before a 20 minute run on a road course if I want to avoid that - which makes the car pretty heavy.

This is why I asked about the possibilities of swapping in a different tank, like maybe one from an Integra.

I think it would much easier to get rid of the baffle and add a sump than swap a different tank in. Then your holes for accessing the pump will be different. You will have to make a new panel. Seems a lot easier to do the sump. Thank god i dont road race.

James

 

[turbosax2]

I'm concerned that the sump wouldn't be efficient enough for hard cornering. It works great for drag racing since the fuel moves towards the rear of the tank, but might not work as great for road racing. The surge tank is the best idea I've heard yet and should be relatively easy to fab and plumb.

 

[Ludachris]

I'm concerned that the sump wouldn't be efficient enough for hard cornering. It works great for drag racing since the fuel moves towards the rear of the tank, but might not work as great for road racing. The surge tank is the best idea I've heard yet and should be relatively easy to fab and plumb.

I'm starting to lean that way too.

 

[Ludachris]

If gas weighs somewhere near 6 lbs per gallon, and you have to start your runs with a full tank, you'll be running somewhere around 90 lbs of fuel. Imagine being able to run 1/2 a tank of gas and run it down to 1/8 of a tank - that would save you 45 lbs right off the bat, and you'd run it down to about 18 lbs or so.

That's a good amount of weight savings right there... I'll have to start planning this. Maybe we can get someone like JMFab to make up some surge tanks for us.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Can you inform me on this surge tank and what it does, where it would be put, and how they work? Thanks

James

 

[snowborder714]

See the links in post #9.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Surge tanks look very complicated. You have to run two fuel pumps, a helluva lot of line and make room for it. And do you really know how much fuel you have left with that surge tank? Seems more like a backup rather than trying to fix the problem.

James

 

[cioc]

The weight savings sounds like a reason to move to the surge tank option however the weight of that option was not taken into account. The extra wiring/tank/pump and lines has to be good for another 10lbs no?...even still it would be worth the 35lb savings. Somebody needs to make one of these...I don't have the time.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Explain how you are saving weight?

James

 

[cioc]

See post #40...you don't read through these very well do you?

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

No. That doesnt save you any weight. No way. That means you just have to fill up sooner. I think the surge tank is just a bandaid of the real problem. And yes i can read, so keep making snide remarks when you arent solving any problem, just covering one up. Plus, having another tank in the car is another chance to run into having a leak. Having to buy more stuff for the car. Just doesn't seem worth it. And do you honestly think 30 pounds is going to make your car that much quicker?? I'll stick to the sump.

James

 

[Savage Talon]

In road racing that 30 pounds will make a difference. It could be the difference between staying on the track or putting it in a flat spin heading out to sea. (Top Gun reference)

 

[cioc]

Yes. Yes it does save you weight. Yes way. I'm not doing any competitive racing so if I have to bring gas with me so that I need to fill up after each session I'll do it gladly to have more fun. As for the "snide" remark, you've now asked two questions that were previously answered in this single thread. The obvious real solution is to buy an ATL or Fuel Safe racing cell. Ever price one out? Making a surge tank that will cost you less than a TENTH of a racing cell...seems like a pretty good idea to me. As for the sump idea, great for drag racing but what happens under hard braking in a straight line?...I'll tell you...no more fuel in the sump area. As for removing 30 lbs...that's a pretty nice weight savings in my book. And now for some useful commentary.....

....what about creating a baffle that has a moveable trap door kind of like the Moroso oil pans? You could probably combine the sump idea and create a "box" inside the tank that's a few inches tall. Each side of the box could have a hinged piece of sheet metal. So let's say under a hard right, the right door swings in to the "box" and the left door has a positive stop which would keep fuel in the sump area. The front of the box would be rigid so under heavy breaking the fuel would also stay put....maybe flow over the top of it since it's only a few inches tall but that could be compensated for by adding height if it were a problem. Or, hinge the front of the box as well such that under acceleration it swings in and under braking it closes against the other walls.

 

[Ludachris]

No. That doesnt save you any weight. No way. That means you just have to fill up sooner. I think the surge tank is just a bandaid of the real problem. And yes i can read, so keep making snide remarks when you arent solving any problem, just covering one up. Plus, having another tank in the car is another chance to run into having a leak. Having to buy more stuff for the car. Just doesn't seem worth it. And do you honestly think 30 pounds is going to make your car that much quicker?? I'll stick to the sump.

James

James, if you can start a 20 minute session on 1/3 or a 1/2 of a tank instead of a full tank, that will save you a lot of weight and should definitely help your lap times. Yes, you will have to fill up at the end of the session but I have to do that anyway, even after a full tank, since I get fuel starvation right around a half a tank.

Relative to most other weight reduction ideas, I would see this as one of the most effective ways to reduce weight for road racers.