FP68hta trying for 10s, take two

[larrykoren]

Well I just got back from another long day at the strip, 11-5pm. I got 9 runs in today and my goal was to finally break into the 10s. Well long story short is that I did not get it no matter how hard I tried. I cannot get an ounce bit more of power out of this car. I have the wastegate vacuum line pulled off, running 30+ psi and it is still the same. I can only launch at 12 psi or the tires go up in smoke. I am getting a 1.65 60ft almost every time and I am very consistent but I cannot cut this last bit off. If I launch harder then I get no traction. If I had slicks I could launch at 30psi and get a great 60ft and have 10s no problem but a set of 4 are $937 without rims. So I am not doing that yet because of no funds. The track was prepped like crap or should I say not prepped at all. Next week I will be at norwalk and hopefully get better traction so I can hit 10s. The car is doing great and it has great consistency and showing no signs of problems.

I have 6 videos and my times went like this. Not in this order. So close, so many times but no cigar. I tried switching the launch up and it didnt matter. I changed tire pressure a lot and it helped but still not enough for 10s. I think I should start bracket racing.

11.20
11.18
11.14
11.13
11.12
11.08

Best slip (will be scanned later)
60ft 1.6452
330ft 4.6081
1/8 [email protected]
1000ft [email protected]
1/4 [email protected]

I weighed the car at the track too. These are race weights with gas.

2690 with driver
2515 without driver

Here is my 11.08 video. View my channel for the rest of the runs!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0qj5nuyBdo

 

[SosaPerformance]

So close

 

[Nate Crisman]

AWESOME! did you experiment at all with running out 3rd vs clicking OD?

 

[skatershawn]

sick... sorry you could break the 10 second mark!!
really wanting the 68hta!!!

 

[gofer]

Great runs man, now you just need some slicks under that thing to enter the 10's club. A 0.1 faster 60ft is a 0.3 faster 1/4 and you've got the A/T working for you to remain consistent.

 

[larrykoren]

Yea I leaned out third and I experimented. It seems to me that shifting into 4th at about 6800 rpms in third is the best for my setup with stock cams ect. Even though I leaned it out, when trying to hold it in third, as soon as I passed the line it still broke up some even though it wasnt pig rich anymore. For some reason my engine doesnt want to rev that high. And when I stayed in third I hit 119, so that was less than when going to OD. So the moral is that with MY setup, shifting into 4th (OD) helps it out and I shouldnt rev over 7k at all and should shift at 6800 for best results in each gear. I think it may be my stock auto cams or old valvetrain. Its not made for high rpm and maybe that's why the auto with the tcu shifts early (like 6500) stock.

If I had traction, it wouldnt be a problem. I had to baby the launch today (12psi). I cant launch with more or it just lights them up and straight to redline. The track prep was pure crap. I had to let my tires to 15psi to get them to catch as good as they did (which is not great, as you can hear the squealing). I hope norwalk next week has better prep and maybe I can cut the 0.08 sec off this time.

I wish I could leave at full boost or at least more than 12psi. It would be sick and I would for sure have it.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Yea I leaned out third and I experimented. It seems to me that shifting into 4th at about 6800 rpms in third is the best for my setup with stock cams ect. Even though I leaned it out, when trying to hold it in third, as soon as I passed the line it still broke up some even though it wasnt pig rich anymore. For some reason my engine doesnt want to rev that high. And when I stayed in third I hit 119, so that was less than when going to OD. So the moral is that with MY setup, shifting into 4th (OD) helps it out and I shouldnt rev over 7k at all and should shift at 6800 for best results in each gear. I think it may be my stock auto cams or old valvetrain. Its not made for high rpm and maybe that's why the auto with the tcu shifts early (like 6500) stock.

If I had traction, it wouldnt be a problem. I had to baby the launch today (12psi). I cant launch with more or it just lights them up and straight to redline. The track prep was pure crap. I had to let my tires to 15psi to get them to catch as good as they did (which is not great, as you can hear the squealing). I hope norwalk next week has better prep and maybe I can cut the 0.08 sec off this time.

I wish I could leave at full boost or at least more than 12psi. It would be sick and I would for sure have it.

Ok...that's good info. I think a set of cams that might extend your powerband a few hundred rpm might make the difference for you to stay in 3rd and cross traps at about 7300rpm? When you get slicks, you might benefit from the shortest tire possible in order to close up the gearing and get you up into the sweet spot in 4th.

are you planning to keep optimizing this specific setup or do you have any plans to add significant power or bump the trap speed?

 

[larrykoren]

Man I do not really know yet. I would like to hit 10s fist with this setup before I switch everything around. I am also in the process of getting my block machined in my other talon too and I might build this next engine up and swap it into this car. I have a FP3575 with bolt on housing that I got for cheap and it has all oil lines and wastegate, ect. So that whole setup is ready to bolt on. The only problems are that if I swap to this huge turbo I am going to need to raise my stall on my converter, get 2150 injectors, get cams and valvetrain to allow me to rev higher to use the powerband and I should probably have built internals. I was planning on moving to the larger turbo but it seems like I have a lot of extra stuff to run that turbo efficiently and take advantage of it.

If I throw it on now, I wont be able to spool it and it will be a dog out of the hole. I cant rev high enough for a turbo that is no at full spool til 5k, and I will probably destroy the stock engine.

So either I will build this other engine and put it on that or keep my setup. I should really sell this 3575 turbo and get slicks. But I dont think I will be happy with this 68hta setup for long. I do want to go much faster. I just really dont know what to do and need to make up my mind.

I also would like to be able to compete in the dst class at the shootout and have a chance to win. Last year low 11s/high 10s won it with the evo3. If I am allowed in with this billet evo 3 (68hta) and I have slicks, I feel I can win it or come close. I dont think I will break because I have ran this setup so many times so far without a hiccup and also I am consistent.

SO I really would like to keep it til the shootout. But with rebuilding this engine, cams and slicks are out of the question. I will be broke, unless I sell the turbo...but I do kinda want to try a big turbo.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Man I do not really know yet. I would like to hit 10s fist with this setup before I switch everything around. I am also in the process of getting my block machined in my other talon too and I might build this next engine up and swap it into this car. I have a FP3575 with bolt on housing that I got for cheap and it has all oil lines and wastegate, ect. So that whole setup is ready to bolt on. The only problems are that if I swap to this huge turbo I am going to need to raise my stall on my converter, get 2150 injectors, get cams and valvetrain to allow me to rev higher to use the powerband and I should probably have built internals. I was planning on moving to the larger turbo but it seems like I have a lot of extra stuff to run that turbo efficiently and take advantage of it.

If I throw it on now, I wont be able to spool it and it will be a dog out of the hole. I cant rev high enough for a turbo that is no at full spool til 5k, and I will probably destroy the stock engine.

So either I will build this other engine and put it on that or keep my setup. I should really sell this 3575 turbo and get slicks. But I dont think I will be happy with this 68hta setup for long. I do want to go much faster. I just really dont know what to do and need to make up my mind.

I also would like to be able to compete in the dst class at the shootout and have a chance to win. Last year low 11s/high 10s won it with the evo3. If I am allowed in with this billet evo 3 (68hta) and I have slicks, I feel I can win it or come close. I dont think I will break because I have ran this setup so many times so far without a hiccup and also I am consistent.

SO I really would like to keep it til the shootout. But with rebuilding this engine, cams and slicks are out of the question. I will be broke, unless I sell the turbo...but I do kinda want to try a big turbo.

I hear that, and have been in the same thought process regarding support mods to run a higher power level coupled with juggling the combo that works with a stock trans, stock engine, stock converter. You don't have much choice other than spraying it (which works awesome btw) to stay with a stock converter, as the FP68 is about as large as you can go. Lucas proved there was very little to gain going up to the next level in turbo (50 trim t3t4, FP green size stuff) as what you gain up top, you lose in low end to where it's somewhat a wash for ET and your putting that much more stress on the engine to make higher peak power but less powerband.

DST class....see you there

I think there are going to be quite a few cars faster than last year though. I went 11.1 last year without nitrous, Im expecting this year to be quite a bit improved. Im sure a few of the 5sp cars will be showing up and going 130mph+, but typically inconsistent and unreliable.

 

[bmoha7321]

How much do those wheels you're running weigh? They look like they might be kinda heavy. And then the next question is; what width tire are you running? You're not looking for huge amounts of time so lighter wheels might help. Maybe some of those 16x8 mazda rx7 wheels. They are ridiculously light and cheap if you can find them used. And if you're frying the tires @ anything more than 12 psi maybe if you get a wider rim you can go to a 235 width tire?

 

[larrykoren]

My rims are 16x7 and weigh 20.0lbs a piece when I weighed them on my scale. The tires I have on there are 225/50/16 toyo extensa hp.

Yea man see you there. What is your best without nitrous? DST cant have nitrous correct?

 

[Nate Crisman]

My rims are 16x7 and weigh 20.0lbs a piece when I weighed them on my scale. The tires I have on there are 225/50/16 toyo extensa hp.

Yea man see you there. What is your best without nitrous? DST cant have nitrous correct?

DUDE 20lb wheels! a set of 14lb wheels would get you the 10 alone!

I only made one single pass with the nitrous off last year, it was 11.1 @ 122 on a 1.48. It was my first pass with the automatic trans after doing the swap. BUT I accidentally shifted it from 1st gear directly to 3rd gear (skipped over second on the shift lever due to it not having a detent). I didn't have OD hooked up yet, so I had to run out 3rd gear to 7400rpm. The car was basically in 3rd gear from 60' to the trap. I would guestimate with last years power/weight that on a run with all 4 gears, it would go 10.8 @ 124.

For 2011, it's going to be 150lb lighter, with shorter/lighter slicks. Motor will have improvements to nearly every part: more compression, 2g head, evo3 intake, bigger cams, fp exhaust man, external gate, bigger injectors allowing more methanol.

Im realistically expecting the car to go mid 10's without the nitrous and a high 9 on the bottle.

For the DST race, I can remove the nitrous kit all together, no biggie, but realistically just unplugging the noids, no bottle, no input line, and plugging the nitrous solenoid inlet should be enough to prove to everyone I'm not spraying it without going through the trouble of taking the intake manifold off to remove the kit. Besides...it's dead weight at that point.

 

[bmoha7321]

ow.... Lighter wheels would get you into the 10s. The rxy wheels I was refering to are 16X8 and weigh 13 pounds. My 17X8s weigh 16 pounds as do my 16X7s. what is the total weight of your wheels with tires on?

 

[GDNF2ET]

I think a cam change is all you need..The auto cams are the least desirable of any dsm cam....If you go with HKS 264s, you won't loose any bottom end or spool...

 

[crash89]

Great runs man, now you just need some slicks under that thing to enter the 10's club. A 0.1 faster 60ft is a 0.3 faster 1/4 and you've got the A/T working for you to remain consistent.

This is exactly what I was thinking! Buy some or borrow someones and welcome to the 10s. Great runs nonetheless!!

 

[cantgo2fast]

Beg and borrow for some wheels!!! SO close

 

[gofer]

Thats pretty sweet they were letting you run deep 11's with no roll cage. The track I ran my 11.65 at was warning me that I better not be pedaling because if I cut an 11.49 I'd get the boot.

 

[94_TSi]

I love seeing the "little" guy's doing this. Average guy's that dont have all the money in the world to throw at their cars and yet still make them run and do it consistantly. Just goes to show you what some hard work and dedication will get you, oh and knowledge. Best of luck to you guy's!

 

[larrykoren]

Thanks all. I definitely would love some light rims and slicks. It would get me there. Cams I expect would too. Rims and tires are 42 lbs a piece I believe. I think rims are 20 and tires are 22. So some rx7 wheels with slicks would be awesome.

Well last year its was 11.49 for a cage. This year the new rule book says 10.99. So you wont have any problem running low 11's. My track had the new rule book out when inspecting my car thoroughly. All I needed way a fire jacket (sfi certified) and a 5 point harness (sfi) and that is it. If I run 10.99 I will get kicked for no cage..

 

[pantherballhp]

those are awesome times and runs, especially from a very streetable setup. that car can easily go 10's

 

[SBstar]

Dang, wish I had known I would have tried to make it to Milan. Great car and good runs, 10's are around the corner with a few select things mentioned. Good job.

 

[larrykoren]

Ok, for slicks I am looking at the MT ET Drag 24.5x8x15. Is this the widest people usually get? Is it the widest that will fit? I have stock suspension so I want to make sure it will clear that.

Also the biggest question is about the rims. If I get like 15 weld wheels or something of that sort, what rear spacing will fit a stock suspension 1g? I know my rims on my car currently are about a 5.5 in rear spacing with 225 tires and I have less than a 1/2 inch to the strut tower in the front.

On my 3000gt I had 26x10x15 slicks and 15x8 cragars with 4.75 rear spacing and it fit without any spacers. But I am not sure about the dsm.

The 225 is 8.8 section width and the 8in MTs are 9.6 so I think I will need less rear spacing than 5.5. Maybe a 4.5?

I just want to know what people have and what can fit on a dsm. I know a local (bill lowe aka showdown motorsports) has 24.5x8x15 (i am 99% sure) when he went 8s in his 1g dsm. ANd I think he had weld draglites too but I dont know what rear spacing ect.

And he closed up shop and moved far away, so I cant swing by and look at his rims/slicks any time soon.

If I buy them in the future I am going to not ever want to upgrade again and dont want to cheap out. I hate buying things twice. (like I have with fuel injectors , I thought 1150s were huge when I bought them but with e85 I am at 83% IDC already)

 

[pantherballhp]

I'll be going with the rota slipstreams when i get my car to that power level

 

[larrykoren]

Okay well I measure my wheel I have on there now and it is about 5.5 backspacing and with the 225 (8.8in tire) It has less than 1/2 in clearance to strut. So I am thinking a 5.5 rear spacing wheel would be great to sit in the wheel well like stock BUT it might not clear the strut especially at low psi. So I am thinking maybe 4.5 rear spacing to be safe BUT it will stick out some. Which I am not against as long as it fits.

However, I think with the extra inch I could maybe go to 8.5 in slick.

Is 8.5 overkill or is 8 plenty for quite a while? I mean my 10in slicks didnt even hook well on my fwd 3000gt (1.8 60gt, 11.8@124 1/4 mile). So 8's seem very small to me. But with AWD I assume they do very well. But I also think many use 8s to look stock.

I plainly just want something I dont have to worry about hitting my suspension and will get me traction.
Here are slick options
Mickey Thompson ET Drag Slicks - JEGS

Wheels
Weld Racing 90-58350 Weld Racing Draglite 90-Series Wheel
or
Weld Racing 90-58348 Weld Racing Draglite 90-Series Wheel

I have seen rotas break and these weld rims seem to be 11.5 lbs and I see a ton of muscle cars at the strip with them and everyone talks them up. I am not against other options but I want to be able to find the rims and buy replacements if needed.