FMIC short route vs long route...Personal preference or actual difference??

[AlaskanDsm]

This topic has been beaten to DEATH!! I have spent the last 2-3 hours reading as many of the post as i could find. In the future I hope to be doing some upgrading on my car and I just want to look into the options I have for running the piping on my car. From what I have read...

Long route:
-Cheaper (doesn't require the slim fans and some other minor modifications)
-Retains stock fans (Some of the Larger FMIC don't aways allow for enough cooling on the already smaller stock radiators
-Is longer (*suggested* lag time in spool)
-Still gets you into the 11's and 12's
-Seems to be more common for larger FMIC
-Someone already has a hard UICP (doesn't want to pay for the extra to replace)
-More bends (making pressure have a longer "walk" to the TB)
-Possibly makes BOV louder (more air to circulate?)
-More of a "BOLT-ON" feeling
-Has more chances of boost leaks (longer w/ more couplers and piping)



Short Route
-More expensive and requires some minor modifications
-*bragging rights* (as someone had mentioned for an indifference between)
-Shorter route ( *suggested* faster spool time)
-Seems to be less common Larger FMIC
-Clears the wheel well area (SMIC area can be utilized EX. auto tranny cooler)
-The turbo is as close the the TB as possible (For a more responsive spool and engine)
-Has a cleaner look for you car and engine bay
-BOV seems to make a lot less noise (less air to circulate?)
-A/T transmission coolers need to be moved sometimes because the hot pipe is in the way
-Harder to install on a 1G (not sure about a 2G)
-uses smaller fans on radiators that might already have some issues getting air through the FMIC
-Has much sharper transitions(worse for airflow)




I can't seem to point too many other things out. The only other major thing that popped out was that long route and short route really aren't too much of a difference. DSMlink and AFC, Now you are talking about a big difference.
A lot of people that talked in the threads talked about how you might want the short route in the long run. Or how you bought the 2.5 exhaust and wished you had bought the 3. Another would be about removing the cat and running a straight pipe there. Both aren't necessary but something can slightly increase performance.

Ludachris:
I believe that less piping will always be better than more piping. The shortest distance to the throttle body will always win out. Now, the only way to test this of course is to try both on the same car with the same setup. I doubt that many people have done this. Trying to test two different cars won't tell you anything. There's too many other factors involved, and we all know the golden rule - all cars are different.

So my question stands? Is the the difference routes more personal preference or does it really have enough gains to spend the extra few dollars besides looks and space saving...to get the short route? I'm not asking which is better in your opinion. I already read a lot of that haha. Just if its a personal thing or if there are actual gains equivalent to the extra money spent.

Wow..sorry it was so long.

 

[JayRolla]

Short route is better...

Example every notice how your stock turbo spools quick on a 8 in front mount (small) or side mount, V.S. a 30 in core with 3 in piping.

Now longer piping (a few inches or a foot or 2) wont have a drastic flow difference like the above statement but i think you get the point.

Not to mention shorter route usually will cost less if you plan ahead when you add a power steering cooler, tranny, oil cooler. Not to mention longer route usually involves more couplers piping, etc more potentals for boost leaks.

Though a long route piping for a front drive car might help with lauch if the boost takes a few hundred rpm to reach max boost.

Actually its been proven mathematically that it doesnt really take longer to spool. He did the test on 5 feet of extra piping at 2.5 inches. It took the turbo less than a fraction of a second to fill up the extra piping and not even 100rpm difference on spool.\

Now the best thing about short route in my opinion is it does look a lot cleaner and better. Also less places for boost leaks as mentioned.

Also short route cost a lot more if you buy a kit. I got my intercooler, all piping, couplers and clamps for $150 shipped and is working as good as any $800 short route kit. My core may not flow like a $600 core but its not worth the cost in my opinion.

 

[BeatupVR4]

Well between short route and long route, i recall reading a long time ago that the differences in spool time werent negligable.... Meaning you probably wouldnt notice the difference.

Have you seen the intercooler piping for a front mount on a WRX/STi? It's like 15 ft of piping. I'm guessing the lag isn't much of an issue from longer pipes.

 

[CTP]

Have you seen the intercooler piping for a front mount on a WRX/STi? It's like 15 ft of piping. I'm guessing the lag isn't much of an issue from longer pipes.

Exactly. The air is moving through the pipe at 250-300+mph. How much of a difference is 2-3 extra feet really going to make?

 

[AlaskanDsm]

is it seriously that much longer than ours??? wow.

 

[Larry L]

I ran long route on my 16G set up, and I felt a real difference when I switched to the short route set-up.

 

[AlaskanDsm]

where did your long route go? also did you switch anything else out besides the piping?

 

[ETS Tom]

The difference in spool time between piping lengths will not be noticeable by the driver without looking at a log of boost vs. RPM, it's just not enough of a difference as has been posted above. Theoretically (without doing the math) it would seem logical that there would be a fairly significant difference in driving experience with the shortest possible routing, but in practice there just isn't. We developed the shortest route kits for 2Gs for those wanting the absolute minimum piping length, however, our original 2G short route kits that require no cutting on the core support and retain 97-99 fog lights while still being very short total length will offer nearly identical performance.

Tom

 

[CTP]

I ran long route on my 16G set up, and I felt a real difference when I switched to the short route set-up.

The placebo effect at work.

 

[Asimmons90GSX]

I prefer the short route piping

 

[AlaskanDsm]

The difference in spool time between piping lengths will not be noticeable by the driver without looking at a log of boost vs. RPM, it's just not enough of a difference as has been posted above. Theoretically (without doing the math) it would seem logical that there would be a fairly significant difference in driving experience with the shortest possible routing, but in practice there just isn't. We developed the shortest route kits for 2Gs for those wanting the absolute minimum piping length, however, our original 2G short route kits that require no cutting on the core support and retain 97-99 fog lights while still being very short total length will offer nearly identical performance.

Tom

Awesome!!! So basically it is really just preference over difference...Although the pros and cons are evident as to the beginning to the thread! Ok so depending on if I ever get the money to ever do ANYTHING with my car...I can decide at that time which route and FMIC i will go with!!! But if anyone still has more to add please do! pictures welcome and even diagrams to how they have routed the IC pipes.

 

[the1cov]

I'm not arguing that point at all! And of course it makes sense that being the shorter piping would constitute for a shorter spool time but the amount of air pushed through those pipes would fill that extra space in an almost unnoticeable time difference.



ok so how about some of the longe routes? I would think that there are a couple variations...

I have read alot of Forums and this is the first 1 I am responding to. I agree with JAYROLLA not only with this forum but on alot of forums. Anyways I have changed my piping 3 times. As you can see in the horribal pic i have the piping actually going between the intercooler, and the radiator. Which i ended up not liking since the piping was basucally smached between the 2 coolers. So i changed the route to what Selser420 is running from the cooler to the intercooler, then long routed around since my intercooler is so Big (long) 34x11.5x3. And since the intercooler was off center, which I didnt like especially once I put the bumper back on.I decided to go long route all the way along the radiator support strait to the drivers side bumper and back around.

I think this is probably the longest route possible. I could have done it differently if I didnt keep the front bumper brace intact,but with my driving I figured it would be safer leaving it in. HaHa So since I have done the short and long route all my self I can tell you from personal experience I do not notice a bit of a difference in lag. But I also have a A/T that breaks boost up to 3500, 4000 if I really want to, on stock stall converter (I think it is getting ready to go out though). I am also pushing 26 psi. Don't get me wrong if I am at a dead stop and floor it without touching the break I do get lag but that is not from the piping that is from the turbo, which dosent last long at all anyways. SO me personally I think it is more the turbo you use not the lenght of the piping you use.

 

[Black_Bullet]

If you want quicker spool here are two parts that in my opinion do an excellent job -

Fp race exhaust manifold, cyclone intake manifold...

The rest is all in turbo selection, displacement, and tuning, and whether or not your set up is air tight...

 

[1992awdlaser]

^ You forgot nitrous.

 

[2gGSX]

Higher compression helps out too.

 

[Black_Bullet]

^True that... ( last two posts.)

Dont forget spraying WD-40 on your compressor blades helps it spin up easier...
400 Rpm quicker spool guaranteed !

J/K

Dnt take it serious, I dont want to hear about anything coming loose tommorow.

 

[1992awdlaser]

^, who would try that. I mean seriously pb blaster works so much better. Just kidding Newbs don't try it.

 

[the1cov]

Higher compression helps out too.

Especially if you are running E85

 

[AlaskanDsm]

I have read alot of Forums and this is the first 1 I am responding to. I agree with JAYROLLA not only with this forum but on alot of forums. Anyways I have changed my piping 3 times. As you can see in the horribal pic i have the piping actually going between the intercooler, and the radiator. Which i ended up not liking since the piping was basucally smached between the 2 coolers. So i changed the route to what Selser420 is running from the cooler to the intercooler, then long routed around since my intercooler is so Big (long) 34x11.5x3. And since the intercooler was off center, which I didnt like especially once I put the bumper back on.I decided to go long route all the way along the radiator support strait to the drivers side bumper and back around.

I think this is probably the longest route possible. I could have done it differently if I didnt keep the front bumper brace intact,but with my driving I figured it would be safer leaving it in. HaHa So since I have done the short and long route all my self I can tell you from personal experience I do not notice a bit of a difference in lag. But I also have a A/T that breaks boost up to 3500, 4000 if I really want to, on stock stall converter (I think it is getting ready to go out though). I am also pushing 26 psi. Don't get me wrong if I am at a dead stop and floor it without touching the break I do get lag but that is not from the piping that is from the turbo, which dosent last long at all anyways. SO me personally I think it is more the turbo you use not the lenght of the piping you use.

HA! Someone who actually has done both routes and sounds like even three routes! Someone was very dedicated it sounds like. I have like a half page list of things i need to do BEFORE i can even start after market mods...but I have no money and I am sad!

^ You forgot nitrous.

nice!! And whats with the pb blaster and the WD-40? does that really work...not saying for anyone to actually try it...i'm just wondering who was crazy enough to actually try that?

 

[1992awdlaser]

We were just joking about the wd-40 and pb blaster. If you want to be the guinea pig go ahead though.

 

[AlaskanDsm]

Haha, with the way my turbo has been bothering me...I don't think I want to try that....but eventually when I get a new turbo...I think i could have some fun with the turbo....

 

[kchaazz]

If anyone's still interested, I have just recently swapped from the XS Power long route fmic kit, to the Punishment-Racing/Lan "Budget" short route fmic kit.

This is the only thing I will have changed about my setup. The new kit is all bolted up, and all I have left to do now is a boost leak test and then bolt the bumper on and then I will run the car a couple times before I begin the body work and I will post the spoolup results if there are any differences.
I run the Forced Performance 18g5h, not the new 18g they offer with the TD06 turbine wheel, and I used to get full 21psi spool by 3400 rpms or so and that was with no boost leaks, 11:1 afr, timing beginning at 9 degrees and peaking at 19- 20 degrees with no knock, if it matters. There are a few other small things with the car that I must attend to, so it may be a few days before I post the results, but I'll get the info posted as soon as I can.

 

[kchaazz]

Completely forgot about this, but everything has been in for some time now. I have no way to log boost, but Im 99% sure my boost characteristics are identical with both the long and short route kits and not only did I swap piping, but also went to a smaller core. So, in my case, no difference. Anyone else?

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Did you not read the posts in this forum? The only between in the short route vs. the long route is that the longer route has more air volume which leads to turbo lag, but I doubt anyone can notice a fraction of a second lag. So the only use of have a short route is to make it look cleaner and/or having a cold air turbo intake.

 

[Dsmj89]

I have a short route system as can be seen in my photo gallery and i got it mainly for the cleanliness and fact of having less chances/points of a boost leak.
Not saying it's less prone, just less areas to check or have a leak happen.
Plus it opened up quite some space in my bay.
As for spool, i have a evo3 16g and i have full boost (14psi) by around 3400 rpm, i do have a small exhaust leak but i will be fixing that shortly.

 

[1990AWD]

Here are pics of Punishment Racing's short route on a 1g. http://www.punishment-racing.com/Picture-2.jpg