FMIC short route vs long route...Personal preference or actual difference??

[AlaskanDsm]

This topic has been beaten to DEATH!! I have spent the last 2-3 hours reading as many of the post as i could find. In the future I hope to be doing some upgrading on my car and I just want to look into the options I have for running the piping on my car. From what I have read...

Long route:
-Cheaper (doesn't require the slim fans and some other minor modifications)
-Retains stock fans (Some of the Larger FMIC don't aways allow for enough cooling on the already smaller stock radiators
-Is longer (*suggested* lag time in spool)
-Still gets you into the 11's and 12's
-Seems to be more common for larger FMIC
-Someone already has a hard UICP (doesn't want to pay for the extra to replace)
-More bends (making pressure have a longer "walk" to the TB)
-Possibly makes BOV louder (more air to circulate?)
-More of a "BOLT-ON" feeling
-Has more chances of boost leaks (longer w/ more couplers and piping)



Short Route
-More expensive and requires some minor modifications
-*bragging rights* (as someone had mentioned for an indifference between)
-Shorter route ( *suggested* faster spool time)
-Seems to be less common Larger FMIC
-Clears the wheel well area (SMIC area can be utilized EX. auto tranny cooler)
-The turbo is as close the the TB as possible (For a more responsive spool and engine)
-Has a cleaner look for you car and engine bay
-BOV seems to make a lot less noise (less air to circulate?)
-A/T transmission coolers need to be moved sometimes because the hot pipe is in the way
-Harder to install on a 1G (not sure about a 2G)
-uses smaller fans on radiators that might already have some issues getting air through the FMIC
-Has much sharper transitions(worse for airflow)




I can't seem to point too many other things out. The only other major thing that popped out was that long route and short route really aren't too much of a difference. DSMlink and AFC, Now you are talking about a big difference.
A lot of people that talked in the threads talked about how you might want the short route in the long run. Or how you bought the 2.5 exhaust and wished you had bought the 3. Another would be about removing the cat and running a straight pipe there. Both aren't necessary but something can slightly increase performance.

Ludachris:
I believe that less piping will always be better than more piping. The shortest distance to the throttle body will always win out. Now, the only way to test this of course is to try both on the same car with the same setup. I doubt that many people have done this. Trying to test two different cars won't tell you anything. There's too many other factors involved, and we all know the golden rule - all cars are different.

So my question stands? Is the the difference routes more personal preference or does it really have enough gains to spend the extra few dollars besides looks and space saving...to get the short route? I'm not asking which is better in your opinion. I already read a lot of that haha. Just if its a personal thing or if there are actual gains equivalent to the extra money spent.

Wow..sorry it was so long.

 

[1992awdlaser]

I would take the short route (which I have) with the couple of positives over saving a few bucks by going with a long route. One thing you didn't mention is that with the long route there is more of a chance for a boost leak because of more couplers and piping. Ludachris is right worst to best would be long route, short route, water to air. Water to air shouldn't be used on the street though and should have ample time to cool before another run when at the track.

 

[mach4g63t]

It just depends on whether or not you wanna spend the extra 150 bucks now and get the short route or go cheap now and pay later.

It's like buying DSMLink but only getting 660cc injectors. Might as well shell out the extra 50 bucks or so and have 1000cc injectors that can support your future mods without being replaced and costing more money.

Short Route FTW. It's true though, that generally you can't get a very large core for short route very easily, or cheap. But it also all depends on your overall goals for the car? 450hp? Go short route and be done.

 

[xxShaneOmac]

24x10x3 is a pretty decent sized core
Short route with no cutting on an 2g.


<3 ETS

 

[1992awdlaser]

Ummmm, not able to get a big core?

https://secure.buschurracing.com/ca...d=236&osCsid=32ea6b44804a900bede1e35b2f4b1a95

I would say that is a big core.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Well between short route and long route, i recall reading a long time ago that the differences in spool time werent negligable.... Meaning you probably wouldnt notice the difference.

 

[Dsm2nr89]

I yet havent seen anyone with any problems running a long route vs. short route. I think they both work fine but the short route does help in the long run due to the air getting to the TB in less time. I am getting a long route just cause i like to be different and i will customize it myself and have a shop fab it up for me

 

[welfle18]

I have short route IC piping in my car and didn't have to switch from my factory fans! The only real modifications that I had to do was to cut a hole on my radiator support bracket and move my coolant overflow reservoir. And my bov was louder compared to my stock setup which I would consider a long route (not same bov but both were forge motor-sports bov's). This could have to do with the rubber piping but it is still louder.

 

[mach4g63t]

Okay, well it isn't very hard to get one, but it sure as hell isn't cheap. Not as cheap as a long route of the same size or equivalent.

 

[JayRolla]

Im running a long route kit and realistically I hit the same boost at the same rpm as my brother on his 16g and short route piping. Mathematically it takes less than a point of a second for the turbo to spool the extra piping. The velocity of the air is so high the longer piping really dont cause more spool time.

 

[1992awdlaser]

Well between short route and long route, i recall reading a long time ago that the differences in spool time werent negligable.... Meaning you probably wouldnt notice the difference.

As with anything though, add up all the variables and you will notice one. For example your new exhaust manifold, short route piping, and exhaust. You see what I mean? It all makes a difference, but if you are not trying to make a set up that can be as good as possible and would rather save some money then go with long route.

 

[CTP]

JayRolla hit the nail on the head. Someone on this board actually did the math awhile ago and the difference to fill the extra air volume was in the fractions of a second range.

It's like buying DSMLink but only getting 660cc injectors. Might as well shell out the extra 50 bucks or so and have 1000cc injectors that can support your future mods without being replaced and costing more money.

Yea, that logic is outstanding. Why not just get 1600's while you're at it.


The thing that no one really considers in long route vs short route (and all you're going to get is opinion because, like everything else, no one has actually done a back to back test) is that short route may be shorter, but it also has much sharper transitions and hence worse flow. Then there's also the fact that you can't use a proper side to side flow intercooler and you get stuck using some poorly made backdoor which hurts your flow even more.

Also, where are you getting 4-6ft MORE piping in a long route? I have long route and I didn't even have 6ft of TOTAL piping, let alone 6ft MORE piping.

And "bragging rights"? "More bolt on feeling"? Why is that stuff even being taking into consideration for a performance modification? I thought all that matters when making performance mods is what performs better.

 

[Dsm2nr89]

A-men to that

 

[CompuBob_TSi]

It's like buying DSMLink but only getting 660cc injectors. Might as well shell out the extra 50 bucks or so and have 1000cc injectors that can support your future mods without being replaced and costing more money.

yah, and pay that 40 bucks in waisted gas in the first week

 

[68442]

I think a pic of short and long would be nice in this thread.

 

[1992awdlaser]

yah, and pay that 40 bucks in waisted gas in the first week

It won't use more fuel by having 1000's over even stock injectors if tuned correctly. Think about it. The car will have the same fuel pressure, same boost, and same air/fuel ratio regardless the different size injectors. That means it will be using the same amount of fuel whether it be 450's or 1000's. The 1000's just wouldn't have to work as hard to supply the fuel.

 

[dalatinromeo]

It won't use more fuel by having 1000's over even stock injectors if tuned correctly. Think about it. The car will have the same fuel pressure, same boost, and same air/fuel ratio regardless the different size injectors. That means it will be using the same amount of fuel whether it be 450's or 1000's. The 1000's just wouldn't have to work as hard to supply the fuel.

Exactly. With the right tuning you can have even better gas.

 

[AlaskanDsm]

And "bragging rights"? "More bolt on feeling"? Why is that stuff even being taking into consideration for a performance modification? I thought all that matters when making performance mods is what performs better.

I can agree with this statement. I was deff tired last night and was making sure I posted what I found to be the more common of the said features of each route. I don't really remember where the 4-6ft longer thing came in..... I'll be prompt to remove that haha.

So far this thread is much better than the last ones I have read!!

The thing that no one really considers in long route vs short route (and all you're going to get is opinion because, like everything else, no one has actually done a back to back test) is that short route may be shorter, but it also has much sharper transitions and hence worse flow. Then there's also the fact that you can't use a proper side to side flow intercooler and you get stuck using some poorly made backdoor which hurts your flow even more.

This is exactly the type of stuff I am looking for and it does make sense that the sharper transitions would be a somewhat worse for air flow. Even if it only take a fraction of a second difference! ...I should add that!!

I will try to find a couple of really good pictures on the site here to add

 

[1992awdlaser]

I think a pic of short and long would be nice in this thread.

These are the best I have. And yes they are cell phone pics.

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[Dsm2nr89]

How is the gm maf treating you ?

 

[1992awdlaser]

JayRolla hit the nail on the head. Someone on this board actually did the math awhile ago and the difference to fill the extra air volume was in the fractions of a second range.



Yea, that logic is outstanding. Why not just get 1600's while you're at it.


The thing that no one really considers in long route vs short route (and all you're going to get is opinion because, like everything else, no one has actually done a back to back test) is that short route may be shorter, but it also has much sharper transitions and hence worse flow. Then there's also the fact that you can't use a proper side to side flow intercooler and you get stuck using some poorly made backdoor which hurts your flow even more.

Also, where are you getting 4-6ft MORE piping in a long route? I have long route and I didn't even have 6ft of TOTAL piping, let alone 6ft MORE piping.

And "bragging rights"? "More bolt on feeling"? Why is that stuff even being taking into consideration for a performance modification? I thought all that matters when making performance mods is what performs better.

How does the short route have sharper transitions? Im' not arguing just want to see what you mean. Because my licp is just two L's and the upper well you can see that in the pics I posted.

 

[dalatinromeo]

How does the short route have sharper transitions? Im' not arguing just want to see what you mean. Because my licp is just two L's and the upper well you can see that in the pics I posted.

Yeah I would like to know about the sharper bends too.

 

[JayRolla]

Here is a front pic of my long route. Its a little cleaner now but you get the idea. The upper pipe is the same as any other.

 

[Dsm2nr89]

Looks a litle too long. I would have routed the pipe that connects to the compressor behind the fans and around the fenderwell. My opinion..

 

[1992awdlaser]

Seems to me the long route would have worse transitions by the looks of that one.