Failed emissions

[talondsm24]

ok so ive only got 10 days and i really need to get my car to pass. here are the numbers

reading limit
HC 4.9903 2.0
CO 21.1271 20.0
CO2 418.9672
NOx 7.4658 3.5

i put in a few thing before the test like put some lucas oil, fuel injector cleaner, and a seal up additive in the oil as well as drove on the highway to get everything really hot.

What should i do?!!!

 

[talondsm24]

my dad said no on the e-85 and said i should just try with the stuff i had done but since that didnt work maybe hell go for it now. i need to try and find someone i can borrow an safc from though so that i can tune for the e-85 cause disconnecting the boost guage doesnt seem too precise enough

 

[habitatguy187]

my dad said no on the e-85 and said i should just try with the stuff i had done but since that didnt work maybe hell go for it now. i need to try and find someone i can borrow an safc from though so that i can tune for the e-85 cause disconnecting the boost guage doesnt seem too precise enough

I went over this more than once man. Just leave the gauge connected, fill the car up with 40% e85, drive it like a grandma until that tank of gas is empty, and you'll be fine.

You WILL NOT blow your car up. e85 will cool your cylinders also.

 

[talondsm24]

i really just dont wanna do the e85 unless i really really have to. i think i may have found whta was wrong though, first off i couldnt figure out how to do the timing so i just went with it untill today my teacher showed me how to do it, i found out how to rig the timing light up with the long spark plug boots that we have. so i found out first that the place my spark plug wires were plugged into were in the wrong order, the order on the car was 1,4,3,2 so i set it back to what my manual said which was 4,1,2,3. so i changed that then did the timing and found out the timing was set to 20-25 btdc so i set it to 5 btdc and it seemed to run better the idle was a bit lower but i adjusted it again. tomorrow i plan on taking out my mdc and reconfiguring to stock, back through the boost control solenoid.

 

[bomper04]

Smog should have checked your timing according to your emissions sticker under hood. Oh well! Haha, as far as the thermostats are concerned, getting a lower temp thermostat won't help much because you're still going to have to get your car to run closed loop and have the Catalytic converter at desirable operating temp. Yes, the formation of NOx is caused by high cylinder head temp (around 2500F).

 

[habitatguy187]

i really just dont wanna do the e85 unless i really really have to.

Why?

 

[talondsm24]

well im doing more research into it but ive just heard way too many bad things about e85 and i have no experiense with so i need to know alittle more before i just throw it in my car. but how much would e85 really cool the cylinders

 

[talondsm24]

i failed again just by a little, i was runni9ng 1/2 e85 1/2 regular 91 octane. any other suggestions?

 

[boostedjay32]

just pay the dude to pass you! Hehe Just kidding...Maybe not...


Just run e85 without pump gas

 

[talondsm24]

i really wish i could, ive spent about $300 in emissions wish i couldve just handed that 300 to the tech and had this all be over with

can i run all e85 without tuning? id buy a safc but im all out of money now.

 

[habitatguy187]

can i run all e85 without tuning?

Yeah you could but I would BABY it all the way there and back until you can put some pump gas into it. If you have bigger injectors you could borrow from someone it would make it much much safer, just drop them in w/out tuning, all e85, and drive like grandma. Put it all back like it was when you're done.

You really shouldn't be failing since you put a cat on though.

 

[bomper04]

What did you fail for this time around? Numbers please.

 

[rEclipserGST]

Look at your wastegate actuator, it has an arm on it that goes over to the hotside of the turbo, it's held on by a cotter pin. Remove that cotter pin and grab the arm with some pliers, pull it towards the alternator and off the turbo. Voila! No boost no matter how hard they push your car.

Pass.....most likely.

How does not building boost going to make his car pass emissions? The ecu does not know that the turbo's actuator is unhooked, which means it will be dumping the same amount of fuel in if it was in boost, correct? If that is correct, then he would fail emissions.

I would run 50/50 of e85 and 93. That right there should get you to pass emissions. That is all I can suggest besides getting a stock cat.

Water Wetter in the radiator, and use like 80% or 100% e85. I personally used 100% of e85, car does burn alot cleaner, but when in boost... it will buck a bit. Hopefully you know why, but hey... if it passes you it passes you. My car is still running and no leaking hoses. I did that twice by the way on a stock fuel system. I did not know ANYTHING about e85.

 

[habitatguy187]

How does not building boost going to make his car pass emissions? The ecu does not know that the turbo's actuator is unhooked, which means it will be dumping the same amount of fuel in if it was in boost, correct? If that is correct, then he would fail emissions.

You made me think about this one for a second

With the wastegate wide open most of the exhaust gas will pass through the wastegate instead of the turbine wheel, slowing the compressor wheel, lowering the amount of airflow that the turbo (and more importantly the mas) will ingest.

With such a low airflow the ecu won't add much fuel, but if the OP is failing because his cylinder temps are up too high there's a very good possibility that he has one or more vacuum leaks causing him to run a little lean.

Although fuel trims should take care of any of that.

 

[Pirrofab]

I'm still thinking there might be a vacum leak or timing adjustment that needs to be adressed. I know someone brought it up before that they ran 2 cats to pass since I mentioned how some ford trucks used 7 of them. Its not correct for a dsm to use 2 cats but if it gets the job done... When theyre doing this test are they making it comply to 2009 emissions standards or the limit for the vehicle during the year it was produced?

 

[talondsm24]

well i did a boost leak test because i dont have a vac pump and i dont wanna pay $60 for one and i found a few boost leaks but fixed them so i dont think its a vac leak. the only thing im failing for is nox at 4.5 and the limit is 3.5 i have 2 cats in, an old one, and a brand new magnaflow high flow. my very first test was 7.9 so i have made much inprovement but its still not quite good enough. the timing is set at 5btdc my dad double checked the timing today and thats what it was at. the limits are the same for every car so i think im having to comply with 2009 standards. any thoughts on my problem being the 02 sensor? im not sure how old it is, or if it works. is there any way to test it?

 

[bomper04]

Again, 4.5PPM of NOx is already low. I don't see how the limit could possibly be 3.5PPM. Anyways, to answer your question, it's highly doubtful that it's your 02 sensor. Only when in closed loop will it start to modify your STFT and LTFT, but not enough to produce NOx, UNLESS your 02 sensor is said to be biased rich, causing your PCM to command lean. If you have an DSO you can check 02 response time as well as switching voltages to determine a bias. Switching should take no longer than 100ms otherwise you can trash it. Find a way to make the engine run a little cooler, because it seems like your reduction catalyst is already working. Unless you want to opt for an OEM cat and not a "high flow" one and see how that turns out. But definitely try and get that thing to run cooler as that's the only way other than utilizing the cat to reduce NOx production.

 

[talondsm24]

the hottest my coolent temps get is just under half the way up on the guage nowere near the danger zone.

about the e85... a guy i know said e85 will cause my car to run pretty lean even at a 1/2 and 1/2 ratio and the octane rating is higher causeing higher combustions temps. is this true?

 

[bomper04]

Octane numbers or ratings were developed by the petroleum industry so the antiknock quality of fuel could be rated. All it is, is a measure of the fuel's tendency not to experience detonation. It has nothing to do with fuel economy or engine efficiency. I don't know what applies to e85 but all I know about that is that it's approx. 85% ethanol, which in that form is alcohol so it carries de-icing properties. Anyways, if what he said is true about running leaner while on e85 then I have no idea why anyone would recommend using it to lower NOx. A lean mixture burns slower than a rich mixture so the longer burn times increase COMBUSTION CHAMBER temps (not coolant temp). This promotes the tendency for unburned fuel in the flame front of the spark ignition flame to detonate.

Here's what I found in my old notes from a class I took about Ethanol.

"Ethanol blending with gasoline by 10% results in an increase of 2.5-3% in octane points"
"It also decreases CARBON MONOXIDE emissions at the tailpipe due to higher 02 content of the fuel"

Sooo, if anything, run E85 if you're failing for CO emissions.

 

[talondsm24]

ya thge problem is my nox number. the co and hc are very low much under the limit

 

[Pirrofab]

whats new with the nox level? ever get this thins to pass yet? has the mechanic offered any suggestions on how to get it to pass? I know in pa in emissions counties if the car is driven under a certain mileage it can be exempt. Exemptions are also possible if you can prove over a certain dollar amount of repairs has been spent to fix the problem and it still won't pass.

 

[talondsm24]

i tried all the ways i could find around this whole ordeal like if i get food stamps i wouldnt have to do emissions, if my repairs have totalled over like $750 not including labor then i can get around it so basically im stuck having to get it past no ways around it.

i went today with the wastegate disconnected and 1/2 e85 and it ran 2.3 HC limit 2.0 9.6 CO limit 20.0 4.8 NOX limit 3.5


so im thinking of running 100% e85 with the wg disconnected

 

[habitatguy187]

Does it cost money everytime you go? How long does it take?

The only problem you may run into running straight e85 is that you'll be running lean, which will raise your exhaust gas temps. It may raise them so high that the e85 will be doing more harm than good. I have no math or exact formulas to give you for this but I thought I'd let you know. Maybe try a 70% mix and go from there if it's not much of a hassle to get tested.


Either way, you should be passing with two cats........

 

[Pirrofab]

Are you still using the maf translator or did you ever switch it out for the stock maf? Did you have an safc in the car?

 

[talondsm24]

i ran 90% e85 with the wg connected without an safc or any tuning and passed! e85's claim to fame is lower exhaust gas temperatures even if your running it much leaner, sure it may have raised them a little but e85 makes entirely less nox. dropped mine over 4ppm

 

[habitatguy187]

Finally!