Failed emissions

[talondsm24]

ok so ive only got 10 days and i really need to get my car to pass. here are the numbers

reading limit
HC 4.9903 2.0
CO 21.1271 20.0
CO2 418.9672
NOx 7.4658 3.5

i put in a few thing before the test like put some lucas oil, fuel injector cleaner, and a seal up additive in the oil as well as drove on the highway to get everything really hot.

What should i do?!!!

 

[habitatguy187]

dont i have to have a tuning system to run any e85? when i take the actuator arm off that would just be running all my exhaust gasses out the wastegate therefore not getting as much air to my intake so, wouldnt i run too rich even with the boost guage disconnected?

You are supposed to have a tuning system, but that's the point, without a tuning system it will lean you out, running a 50/50 mix for a little while won't hurt, just don't go romping on it.

And you don't run rich due to boost (in a sense), it's just that if you have a boost leak/vacuum leak and you go boosting around, then it will make your car run rich. Which is why I said to remove the arm.

Removing the arm will prevent you from being able to boost at all, and any vacuum leak/boost leak you have will lean you out instead of richen you up.

Don't mess around the octane boosters and lucas, it's a waste of money, just do as I said and you'll PROBABLY be ok, even with no cat.

It also might help to do a simple tune-up if you haven't already, at least buy new spark plugs and gap them to the right size. (.028)

 

[talondsm24]

i got new plugs yesterday and i was going to get plug wires but could decide on which ones. im looking to spend around $50 maybe a little more on the wires.

 

[Pirrofab]

e85 is 85% alcohol, any more then 15% alcohol in a standard fuel system can cause corrosion to any rubber and steel lines not designed to handle it. Hence the reason why alcohol injected race cars wether fuel injected or carb have to flush out the fuel system. Even if you are to run 50/50 mix it still puts alcohol content above 15%. Its risky I don't recommend it.
High flow cats are made with larger openings for more airflow but I beleive are also made a bit denser to help clean and keep emissions legal providing the car is running the way it should.

For arguments sake you can get what they call "G2P" or "Garunteed To Pass"
Should be able to get it from napa or any sort of car parts store. Supposed to pour some in your fuel system, and crankcase. I never tried it but they say it will work or you get your money back.

 

[habitatguy187]

e85 is 85% alcohol, any more then 15% alcohol in a standard fuel system can cause corrosion to any rubber and steel lines not designed to handle it.

Tell that to the majority of people on here who run e85 on stock fuel lines. I actually just had this argument two days ago on the local forum.

People seem to get ethanol mixed up with methanol. e85 will however clog your fuel filter fairly quick after making the switch.

 

[Pirrofab]

Yea i know the argument is ongoing, I just took a delphi fuel management class last week and they preached about the e85 doing alot of harm if the system isn't designed for it, It may hold up for some time but eventually it will break down. look at what alcohol will do to aluminum parts if left alone for a few hours, It will have a white chalky build up that same corrosion clogs injectors, thats why e85 vehicles have all stainless fuel systems with gold plated sending unit assemblys to fight the corrosion,

 

[habitatguy187]

Yea i know the argument is ongoing, I just took a delphi fuel management class last week and they preached about the e85 doing alot of harm if the system isn't designed for it, It may hold up for some time but eventually it will break down.

I've been hearing stuff like that lately but how does that explain people like jrohner who's been using e85 on all stuck lines for a couple years now and daily driving it?

I remember reading something about how the rubber fuel hoses changed in the 80s and that all post 85' or somewhere around there year cars could take e85 no problem.

I just wish I could get some real answers. For now though I'll rely on the guy's who've been doing it in real life with no issues.

 

[eazy2g]

Double cat, I had to do that once to pass. Not on this car but one I had a while back.

 

[habitatguy187]

Double cat, I had to do that once to pass. Not on this car but one I had a while back.

Lol, that's hilarious. I'm so glad I live in a state with no emissions. If I lived in Cali I'd just have to save up for a fast car from the factory. I couldn't deal with putting stock parts back on once a year or w/e it is, I'm fixing crap enough already as it is.

 

[bomper04]

ok so ive only got 10 days and i really need to get my car to pass. here are the numbers

reading limit
HC 4.9903 2.0
CO 21.1271 20.0
CO2 418.9672
NOx 7.4658 3.5

i put in a few thing before the test like put some lucas oil, fuel injector cleaner, and a seal up additive in the oil as well as drove on the highway to get everything really hot.

What should i do?!!![/QUOTE\]

correct me if i'm wrong but your numbers don't add up...at least not what i've been taught.

 

[Pirrofab]

Lol, that's hilarious. I'm so glad I live in a state with no emissions. If I lived in Cali I'd just have to save up for a fast car from the factory. I couldn't deal with putting stock parts back on once a year or w/e it is, I'm fixing crap enough already as it is.

Sadly we can't laugh to much about a "double cat" as some california emission legal ford econoline vans that came out had up to SEVEN catalytic converters to pass smog tests becuse the triton v-10 series engines were so dirty. This was what "UTI" taught us when I was there in 06-07 though I never saw it in real life. I have seen double cats already though.

 

[bomper04]

Sadly we can't laugh to much about a "double cat" as some california emission legal ford econoline vans that came out had up to SEVEN catalytic converters to pass smog tests becuse the triton v-10 series engines were so dirty. This was what "UTI" taught us when I was there in 06-07 though I never saw it in real life. I have seen double cats already though.

double cats aren't unheard of, in fact a lot of manufacturers utilize warm up cats in addition to reduction catalysts and oxidation catalysts, BMW especially. I've posted twice before on this thread and see that noone has responded to my comments. if he had real numbers then we would be better able to determine areas that need to be fixed..IMO. those numbers simply don't make sense, unless you guys use some random form of measurement for your gases.

 

[Pirrofab]

double cats aren't unheard of, in fact a lot of manufacturers utilize warm up cats in addition to reduction catalysts and oxidation catalysts, BMW especially. I've posted twice before on this thread and see that noone has responded to my comments. if he had real numbers then we would be better able to determine areas that need to be fixed..IMO. those numbers simply don't make sense, unless you guys use some random form of measurement for your gases.

What I think he means is his readings are on the left and the limits were on the right Depending on the state im sure its different but some readings use a Parts Per Million read out and others are a percentage readout. I know its esentially the same thing but the smog machine has it listed differently.
reading \ \limit
HC- 4.9903 \ \2.0
CO- 21.1271 \ \20.0
CO2- 418.9 \ \672
NOx- 7.4658 \ \3.5

Please correct me if this isn't right with your actual readings on the left and state limits on the right.
When I look at it like this it shows the car didn't fail by much which shows thats its running pretty decent. Installing a cat should definatley put things in spec were they need to be. At this rate water injection would almost garuntee it to pass since the computer would subtract the fuel which would lower hc's and cool down the egts which would lower NOx. BUT thats a hole other ball game so lets just stick to the usual ways to pass an emissions test.

 

[talondsm24]

ya when i typed it in like a chart it was all nicely spaced apart and easy to read, i didnt even realize it smasehed together like that.

anyway i just ordered a magnaflow high flow cat, and cleaned all the oil build up out of my intercooler. now for plug wires, what kind should i get? also ive heard guarenteed to pass is just a fuel systems cleaner, nothing special so ive heard.

 

[bomper04]

What I think he means is his readings are on the left and the limits were on the right Depending on the state im sure its different but some readings use a Parts Per Million read out and others are a percentage readout. I know its esentially the same thing but the smog machine has it listed differently.
reading \ \limit
HC- 4.9903 \ \2.0
CO- 21.1271 \ \20.0
CO2- 418.9 \ \672
NOx- 7.4658 \ \3.5

Please correct me if this isn't right with your actual readings on the left and state limits on the right.
When I look at it like this it shows the car didn't fail by much which shows thats its running pretty decent. Installing a cat should definatley put things in spec were they need to be. At this rate water injection would almost garuntee it to pass since the computer would subtract the fuel which would lower hc's and cool down the egts which would lower NOx. BUT thats a hole other ball game so lets just stick to the usual ways to pass an emissions test.

Yea, now I see what he meant by the measured and limit. It still doesn't make sense to me. Hydrocarbons and oxides of nitrogen are measured in PPMs. CO and CO2 are measured in percentages, if it were a 5-gas, then O2 too. None of those numbers make sense. 4.9903PPM of HC, 21% of CO and 7.46 of NOx. Well okay, the HC and NOx numbers here seem plausible. What screws with my head is that CO2 is apparently from what's been put on here..418%..that's one damn efficient engine hahah...but from the CO it's super, super, super rich. If that were the case, that would drive up HC's so these numbers don't correlate. I live in California and the limit there is more strict than ours apparently, limits like the 2PPM of HC and 3.5 PPM of NOx. I think I'm missing something here...

 

[Pirrofab]

ya when i typed it in like a chart it was all nicely spaced apart and easy to read, i didnt even realize it smasehed together like that.

anyway i just ordered a magnaflow high flow cat, and cleaned all the oil build up out of my intercooler. now for plug wires, what kind should i get? also ive heard guarenteed to pass is just a fuel systems cleaner, nothing special so ive heard.

When it comes to plug wires the factory style ngk wires work well for guys building daily driver dsms or for guys making moderate power. I could have got by with stock wires but decided to go with taylor 10.4mm race wires and have loved them since day one. and its been over a year now.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-parts-feedback-reviews/307456-taylor-10-4mm-plug-wires.html
Thats the link for my write up on them. If your interested in them I believe I got them from extreme psi. I paid just over 100 with shipping.

They have worked really good for me but now on my AWD build I'm planning on going coil on plug. Its a nice upgrade as long as you get an ignition amplifier for the coils. coil on plug doesn't net any upgrades by themselves and in some cases has actually made cars run worse without an ignition amp.

 

[DSMified92]

well from the sound of it all you need is a cat. and yes i know for a fact 96-98 4.6 mustangs have 6 cats on the factory h-pipe. and as for plug wires get whatever you want there is no real better wire because with a good set of wires your coil will only put out whatever its suppose to so its not like you will be getting a hotter spark with bigger wires or whatever. i think its like 10,000 volts per foot. i think that is rule of thumb correct me if im wrong. also you can not clean a o2 sensor all you can do is replace them.

 

[bomper04]

well from the sound of it all you need is a cat. and yes i know for a fact 96-98 4.6 mustangs have 6 cats on the factory h-pipe. and as for plug wires get whatever you want there is no real better wire because with a good set of wires your coil will only put out whatever its suppose to so its not like you will be getting a hotter spark with bigger wires or whatever. i think its like 10,000 volts per foot. i think that is rule of thumb correct me if im wrong. also you can not clean a o2 sensor all you can do is replace them.

Correct, getting new wires won't make much of a difference. Coil output will still be the same, but remember, it only takes X amount to jump that gap. Once it jumps that gap it grounds and the cycle starts all over again. It's just like the multiple electrode plugs. Electricity likes to follow the path of least resistance, whichever has least resistance, the spark will jump from the center to the selected outer electrode. As wear occurs, guess what? Resistance for that electrode increases, so now the spark jumps to the one with least resistance. So, in reality there really isn't (to me) performance gains from wires/performance plugs or whatnot. Only IMO is longevity altered. What are the emissions standards like in Colorado. I still want to figure out those readings you have there.

 

[DSMified92]

exactly electricity follows the ath of least resistance so i would say just get stockers or buy some 8mm from advance or autozone for like 40.00 there all good and get you a cat pass emissions then ut the test pipe back in. but thats just me

 

[talondsm24]

Yea, now I see what he meant by the measured and limit. It still doesn't make sense to me. Hydrocarbons and oxides of nitrogen are measured in PPMs. CO and CO2 are measured in percentages, if it were a 5-gas, then O2 too. None of those numbers make sense. 4.9903PPM of HC, 21% of CO and 7.46 of NOx. Well okay, the HC and NOx numbers here seem plausible. What screws with my head is that CO2 is apparently from what's been put on here..418%..that's one damn efficient engine hahah...but from the CO it's super, super, super rich. If that were the case, that would drive up HC's so these numbers don't correlate. I live in California and the limit there is more strict than ours apparently, limits like the 2PPM of HC and 3.5 PPM of NOx. I think I'm missing something here...

i looked at the sheet a little closer and it appears i passed co2. there is no limit for it though which is a bit confusing. ill put in the graphs so you can look at them, i scanned them in but they got deleted somehow

 

[Pirrofab]

i looked at the sheet a little closer and it appears i passed co2. there is no limit for it though which is a bit confusing. ill put in the graphs so you can look at them, i scanned them in but they got deleted somehow

Yea I probably should have also mentioned that plug wires would really only help out if there is a true issue with the ignition system. but as wires break down over time resistance will build up in the wires and not allow for optimum spark output. Thats why when it gets damp and wet out sometimes you can see the spark jump off the wires onto nearby metal because the wires are going bad and not able to insulate as well.

 

[bomper04]

Yup, there shouldn't be a maximum limit for CO2 as it's not related to photochemical smog production. However state officials and all these global warming fanatics are trying to cap production of CO2 because it "causes" global warming. It's a load of poopoo if you ask me. Just take a look at the warming trends over these couple hundred of years and look at CO2 levels. They don't match up, at all.

Here's something cool. If you ever just have a split spark plug wire and just happen to have some vacuum hose of proper length, put that in it's place. Works just fine =)

Post the smog results! Puhleassseeee haha

 

[talondsm24]

so i put the new cat in, cleaned the egr, got new plugs, cleaned the ic and piping, and took it down to emissions just a few minutes ago. i failed nox!!! i got 6.3 and the limit is 3.5, passed everything else with flying colors though.

So now what do you guys think i should do? ive got 10 days again, and this has to be my last one.

 

[One Equals Two]

Correct me if I am wrong, but running hot will increase your NOx. So, lower temp t-stat and a flushed cooling system should help with that, but then again, this is coming from a Saturn SL2 which failed NOx.

 

[habitatguy187]

I'm guessing you didn't use an e85 mix huh?

 

[Pirrofab]

Nox is formed from running hot cylinder head temps. try a colder thermostat, It will lower nox but will raise everything else slightly. There is a fine balance for emissions. I wish I had a scanner to post the 5 gas chart for the "happy medium". play with the timing slightly to decrease this. Now that everything else passed so well.you should be able to sacrifice a little bit.