EVOIII 16g dyno sheets?

[DSMSpyder99]

I made 262whp and 260 lb-ft w/ 18PSI on SoCAL piss-water 91 octane. Mods and dyno sheet are in profile. I didnt get a good tune because it was a dyno day only got 4 clean pulls. I plan on going back with the ported 2g TB (port matched and on car now), HK$ 264/272 (sitting in my garage), rewired 190lph, and maybe test pipe. Hoping to reach the 300whp level on 91 octane.

Mods i had during dyno run:
| EVO III 16G | JRC FMIC | EVO VIII 560cc | Ported 2G o2 Housing | SBR Manifold | Injen Intake | Greddy Type-S BOV | Thermal R&D 2.5"-3" Turboback w/ High Flow Cat | Walbro 190lph | ACT 2100 | Greddy Profec TYPE-S @ 18 PSI | NGK BPR7ES | Magnecore 8.5mm | Apexi SAFC II |



Things that are owning me:

1. 2.5" Downpipe and 2.5" HiFlow Cat
2. 34mm flapper i cant hold 19PSI to redline it drops to 16-17PSI
3. 91 octane

Well my friend has a TD05H 7cm^2 housing from his s16G(ported and 31mm flapper), i swapped it out now i can hold 19PSI to redline

Things that are owning me:
*2.5 Downpipe and 2.5" Hi Flow Cat
*91 Octane

 

[EnticivEclipse]

Any updates people

 

[ivanr4g63]

Well I'm a little ashamed of posting this , but I recently put down 252whp and 272tq @ 20~psi, this was done on a dynojet running pig rich and with no better way to control the fuel. started with 220whp or so and after a few tweeks got her to run a bit better, we decided we just need better fuel control so we call it a day. More power is there I just need to unlock it!

Mods:
E316g, FMIC, 3" turboback, GM maf and MAF-T, 190lph, 650cc, Aeromotive FPR, race gas and more stuff but overall it was running awfully rich and not much ease on the maft part so couldn't really lean it out the way I wanted. In fact you can tell on the dyno sheet that the A/F curve just deeps down way under 10:0.1... so I'll have to get me an chipped eprom before I go back... fun day nonetheless.

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The shameful dyno sheet! hahaha

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[DSMunknown]

s-gayfc

Funny but so true it's not even funny.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

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Mods in profile.

 

[spyderturbo007]

I love watching videos of Eclipses on Dynos.

On a side note I made my dyno pull at 17.5 psi running a stock cat back and stock UICP. I'll be courious to see what DSMLink estimates my HP at once I get the ECU installed now that I'm running 22psi + Meth.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Another evo3 guy here, once I retune my chip and get the boost steady at 20psi (17currently) with the addition of my fully ported cyclone intake manifold Ill be back to post some numbers and then afterwards will get cams and then do another dyno and see if I can crack the 300whp scrimmage line on pump.. I dont think i will need cams to break 300whp but should least be close.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

What are all of you guys flowing as per lbs/min with 300whp and up? The max airflow I saw was at 23psi, 39.5lbs/min, but I only trapped 111.8. Standard big 16g. My car is a full weight, leather, sunroof, 2g so its a tad bit on the heavy side. I'm starting to wonder If I was clutch limited that last time I was at the track as it started to slip very bad as soon as I left the track. Hopefully it was slightly slipping while racing and I can get the traps my airflow indicates I should next time around with a fresh clutch.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Pump gas or race? With pump gas it's not uncommon to have to flow more air than you think you need for a given power level, since you can't take full advantage of it. My EVO was somewhere around 38 lbs/min, just under 300 whp on an AWD Mustang dyno (reads 15% lower than most dynojets), and 110 mph at 3350 lbs. I don't recall what all of the numbers were on the 2g back when it was at the 300 whp level, but it was similar. And going to race gas, I could run only 1-2 more lbs/min and pick up 5 mph/50 whp pretty easily, because you can take better mechanical advantage of it with more timing. Different people will do better or worse with the same airflow based on any number of variables (larger factors being displacement, cams, and intercooling).

I'm not saying anything new here, just thinking out loud.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

This was on racegas, however the tune was very "friendly". I'm battling some major phantom knock and threw the racegas in to try and cure it. My ET is great but from 21 to 23psi I picked up no mph. AFR's were 11.3 to 11.7 the whole run and max timing was 16 to 17 degrees. Hell, I trapped 109 at 18.5psi, low 11's AFR, and the stock 2g timing map minus 1 or 2 degrees from 4.5k to 6k. To pick up only 2.5mph with 3 more psi, a tad leaner AFR and 1 more degree of timing kinda sux if you ask me. My 1/8th mile trap was 90. I was looking at a few old timeslips of racing with the t25 and I picked up 20mph on the back half of the track. (from 75 to 95mph) With much more power i'm still picking up the same mph on the big end....? 70-90 times are 2.0 seconds.

 

[420a-t]

I did my 12.3xx @ 109.79 with 25psi and topping out at 25 degerees of timing with my E316g (unported). On dsmlink, the estimated HP was 389 on that run. This was with race gas and 80% meth 20%washer fluid injection with a 13/1 afr. Keep in mind the drivetrain loss of A/T and bone stock internals and tranny.

oh and i was flowing 31lbs per minute

 

[420a-t]

Woah, why is my lbs/min so low compared to others?

 

[Kevin Jewer]

To pick up only 2.5mph with 3 more psi, a tad leaner AFR and 1 more degree of timing kinda sux if you ask me.

I just scanned your post quick, so I hope I'm not missing the point, but a typical well setup car will max out the EVO16g at ~42 lbs at 21 psi at redline. Did boost increase to 23 psi at redline or just at the beginning of each gear? As you reach the point where boost falls, at 42 lbs/min, adding more boost won't increase peak airflow, but will increase airflow for more of each gear. For example, running with no bost line to the WGA on my EVO airflow would completely flatline at 42 lbs for the entire run. This had a very small effect on trap speed, but helped ET somewhat. No huge gains. At this point the turbo is maxed, and you're using race gas and doing all you can to try to squeeze out every last HP. You're reading ~40 lbs, but that's close enough that any differences in your air metering system could be throwing off the number just that much. In other words, you're probably maxed out on airflow. You can test it by running race gas again, lowering timing a couple degrees, and doing what I would call a boost profile on your setup. Keep raising boost, noting changes in your airflow and boost curves as you do so. If you do find that you are maxed out on airflow regardless of its reading, you need to make more power by making better use of that airflow (hard parts, tuning, etc).

 

[Tarantula]

I just scanned your post quick, so I hope I'm not missing the point, but a typical well setup car will max out the EVO16g at ~42 lbs at 21 psi at redline. Did boost increase to 23 psi at redline or just at the beginning of each gear? As you reach the point where boost falls, at 42 lbs/min, adding more boost won't increase peak airflow, but will increase airflow for more of each gear. For example, running with no bost line to the WGA on my EVO airflow would completely flatline at 42 lbs for the entire run. This had a very small effect on trap speed, but helped ET somewhat. No huge gains. At this point the turbo is maxed, and you're using race gas and doing all you can to try to squeeze out every last HP. You're reading ~40 lbs, but that's close enough that any differences in your air metering system could be throwing off the number just that much. In other words, you're probably maxed out on airflow. You can test it by running race gas again, lowering timing a couple degrees, and doing what I would call a boost profile on your setup. Keep raising boost, noting changes in your airflow and boost curves as you do so. If you do find that you are maxed out on airflow regardless of its reading, you need to make more power by making better use of that airflow (hard parts, tuning, etc).

/\ /\ /\ Excellent Post!!!

 

[Black95TSIawd]

I just scanned your post quick, so I hope I'm not missing the point, but a typical well setup car will max out the EVO16g at ~42 lbs at 21 psi at redline. Did boost increase to 23 psi at redline or just at the beginning of each gear? As you reach the point where boost falls, at 42 lbs/min, adding more boost won't increase peak airflow, but will increase airflow for more of each gear. For example, running with no bost line to the WGA on my EVO airflow would completely flatline at 42 lbs for the entire run. This had a very small effect on trap speed, but helped ET somewhat. No huge gains. At this point the turbo is maxed, and you're using race gas and doing all you can to try to squeeze out every last HP. You're reading ~40 lbs, but that's close enough that any differences in your air metering system could be throwing off the number just that much. In other words, you're probably maxed out on airflow. You can test it by running race gas again, lowering timing a couple degrees, and doing what I would call a boost profile on your setup. Keep raising boost, noting changes in your airflow and boost curves as you do so. If you do find that you are maxed out on airflow regardless of its reading, you need to make more power by making better use of that airflow (hard parts, tuning, etc).

I have a standard big16g with a nicely ported turbine housing and a 2.5in o2 and a tial 40 hanging off of it. Boost control is not an issue. It doesnt spike, a tad when its Cold out, and holds boost to redline. Being that I do have just a regular b16g, i'm not sure if I can get anymore airflow out of this thing without upgrading the intake manifold. I have a stock 2g mani with a ported head and BC 272 cams. You do prove a very valid point though. I am very timing limited. I'm on the verge of saying that all of my knock is just mechanical "noise", but I haven't had the balls to up it into the lower 20's where peak power would be achieved. It just strikes me odd how i'm trapping 91 in the 1/8th, have a 2.0sec 70 to 90 time, but only muster 111mph in the quarter.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

You're at the flow limit of the big 16g. You won't get any more airflow, so it's time to do what you can to make the most of it. Things that would normally increase airflow, like an intake manifold, won't be as helpful. Rather than increase flow, they will just lower the boost it takes to make that flow. This is good on pump gas, since it reduces heat (which leads to knock), but usually on race gas you don't see huge gains.

What are you using for race gas? With normal AFRs and timing, on the small turbos, with good high octane fuel, it's pretty tough to get real knock. It's probably time to get into the more PITA stuff. Searching out potential causes for mechanical knock, reading plugs, and doing some testing (different fuels, plugs, etc).

 

[FonZ454]

My big 16g put down 300awhp and 299ft/lbs a few months ago. 21psi spike, stock motor minus balance shafts, fmic, dsmlink, 2.5" BR exhaust , maf-t etc...

I suspect it to be around 325whp now due to it's 113.8xmph traps. Still on pump gas, lowish boost (23 psi spike at the most, dropping to 19psi where I shift at), fat AFR and conservative timing. My car just loves to knock and I have a hard time tuning it out.

 

[Black_Bullet]

I just scanned your post quick, so I hope I'm not missing the point, but a typical well setup car will max out the EVO16g at ~42 lbs at 21 psi at redline. Did boost increase to 23 psi at redline or just at the beginning of each gear? As you reach the point where boost falls, at 42 lbs/min, adding more boost won't increase peak airflow, but will increase airflow for more of each gear. For example, running with no bost line to the WGA on my EVO airflow would completely flatline at 42 lbs for the entire run. This had a very small effect on trap speed, but helped ET somewhat. No huge gains. At this point the turbo is maxed, and you're using race gas and doing all you can to try to squeeze out every last HP. You're reading ~40 lbs, but that's close enough that any differences in your air metering system could be throwing off the number just that much. In other words, you're probably maxed out on airflow. You can test it by running race gas again, lowering timing a couple degrees, and doing what I would call a boost profile on your setup. Keep raising boost, noting changes in your airflow and boost curves as you do so. If you do find that you are maxed out on airflow regardless of its reading, you need to make more power by making better use of that airflow (hard parts, tuning, etc).

This was an excellent post.
I wish more ppl understood that simply increasing boost more and more doesnt mean you gain x amount of power. Its all a system of how well everything flows as a whole. Like the chain is only as strong as its weakest link theory.
Just because you can run high boost doesnt mean your granted this type of hp out of a 16g ( or a set up incapable of flowing the air for those numbers).

So considering that; when one or more parts on your system restricts the efforts of possible air flow gained; turning the boost up further will give less and less gains each time till you are maxing out the flow of whatever part(s) are holding you back; while having a hell of a time trying to tune out the heat in running the boost that high in the first place...

Anyways a little off subject but how do you calculate estimated whp with trap speeds?
For instance If im trapping between 110-115 in the 1/4 on a 2850lb car (w/ driver) for instance how do i figure out traps.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

Anyways a little off subject but how do you calculate estimated whp with trap speeds?
For instance If im trapping between 110-115 in the 1/4 on a 2850lb car (w/ driver) for instance how do i figure out traps.

If you're trapping 110-115, it's easy to figure out your traps, they're 110-115

There is too much variance from driver to driver to be able to guess whp from a trap speed, how fast you shift, if you NLTS, etc.

 

[Black_Bullet]

If you're trapping 110-115, it's easy to figure out your traps, they're 110-115

There is too much variance from driver to driver to be able to guess whp from a trap speed, how fast you shift, if you NLTS, etc.

haha yea i mean how to figure out whp, not traps. Wow.
Yea i figured thered be too much variance, but i keep hearing ppl say oh i trapped 110 so i have an estimate of this much hp, and i always wondered how they concluded to that.

 

[FonZ454]

http://www.dsm.org/tools/calchp.htm

 

[Black_Bullet]

http://www.dsm.org/tools/calchp.htm

Thanks... I would give you rep if i could but guess your past the point of recieveing points from other average proven members. Anyways

Hm, so according to this my car had a estimated 344hp with its fastest trap speed.

I know this formula is very basic and not at all specific to car/ driver/ and other variables.
But how does this work though considering some cars are awd and can get good traction vs the ones who spin thru some of their gears which i know hurts E.T. Would those variables have a significant relevance to trap speeds?

 

[Bmxr152]

That estimates hp at the motor and not to the wheels

 

[Boosted98gsx]

That estimates hp at the motor and not to the wheels

Not really, I make 401tq and 385hp on the evo3 at 23 psi and race gas, put in the numbers (ET of ~11.8 and trap of ~115 weight of 3150lbs) and it will come out to damned close to that. My best time to date is an 7.65 @ 91 in the 1/8th (passing the line in 4th gear so a missed gear shift being out of the equation) which equates to about an 11.8 @ 113ish.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Not really, I make 401tq and 385hp on the evo3 at 23 psi and race gas, put in the numbers (ET of ~11.8 and trap of ~115 weight of 3150lbs) and it will come out to damned close to that. My best time to date is an 7.65 @ 91 in the 1/8th (passing the line in 4th gear so a missed gear shift being out of the equation) which equates to about an 11.8 @ 113ish.

Funny on race gas with no passenger seat this car has gone 7.66 @ 91.52 mph with 1.7 60ft in the 1/8th !
But your making more power because your 2g is heavier, mines only weighs a little under 2750 w/o driver.