Evo 8 ECU In 2g Works!!

[hediki12]

<<< 97' TSI AWD 6 bolt 2.3L, speed density, V7 9653

kool any recommendations that you fixed through trouble shooting?

 

[mike96]

So i have been thinking it over and i think i have come up with the best way to tune a good "universal" rom for the evo8 ecu in a 2G. Problem is that it will be a bit of work to get it done and finding a couple of stock 2G to start with might be a little difficult....

Basically the idea is to take a stock 2G (stock turbo, intake, inter-cooler, piping, BOV, cams, etc. etc.) install an evo8 ecu, injectors, MAF and make whatever changes to the rom needed to get it running. Run it for a while and just tune to get the fuel trims where they need to be for the differences in the engine itself (difference in VE, lower compression and all that good stuff). With the evo maf and injectors in that should reduce the number of changes needed to compensate for.

Then once that is dialed in, change out the evo maf for the 2G and make the necessary changes to get the trims back in check. Once that is under control change out the injectors for stock 2G and use the info available from Ceddys rom to make the necessary changes and again re-tune.

Once that is done we should have a pretty good universal rom to start with. from their people will just need to make changes for the aftermarket parts they have installed in their cars. Ideally it would be a good idea to check this tune in a couple of other stock 2G's just to make sure things are working properly. I would volunteer my car, but mine has been modded to much for this (including port and polish). Being that i have so much done i will be more than willing to help out if some one else in Vegas is willing to participate. One thing i have found is that when i was running my MAFT gen2 with evo8 injectors, all i had to do was change the output settings to EVO8 and the fuel trims were within acceptable limits (+- 2-3%). So if we can get a hold of a good test car we can use a translator to emulate an evo8 MAF so that we don't have to purchase one.

Like i said before though getting our hands on a "stock" car for experimentation might be a little difficult. Most DSM by now probably have something done to them. Biggest benefit to doing this i would think is that once this is done the ecu will be able to compensate better for changes associated with temp and load, not to mention better response and power.

 

[knochgoon24]

I see where you're going with that, but how many people considering this swap have a completely stock car? The biggest goal of this would be to get the MAF scaling to be correct. I think just swapping in the stock injectors and scaling the MAF should be enough to get really close. It wouldn't be any less accurate than setting a MAF-T type device. No matter what, a person installing this would have to do some tweaking to get AFR dead on. As long as we get something close, it should be good enough to start the car and have it drivable enough to do some tuning.

Is anyone running that DMA/Live Mapping? I was going to give it a try, but the evolutionm site keeps timing out for me at the moment. I'm going to swap the stock injectors in here in a bit, then try to get a MAF scaling.

 

[the_mork]

Livemapping seems nice but I haven't had the ambition to set it up yet.

 

[knochgoon24]

Next week is going to be like a finals week for me. I have mid-terms Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. I'm going to need something to work on other than schoolwork next week or I'll go nuts.

The injectors are in. Time to make a rom.

For 450s @ 43.5 base pressure you should use a hex value of 0x0045.
That is from the 98/99 flash ecus.

EcuFlash has a conversion of 29241/x
Which would give you 424 cc/min.

I've found the conversion 31050/x to be much closer.
It will give you 450cc/min.


Basically enter 424cc for 450s.

The Latency I have from the 98/99 DSM ecu are:
4.69v = 3.825
7.03v = 1.815
9.38v = 1.125
11.72v = 0.795
14.06v = 0.585
16.41v = 0.435
18.68v = 0.315


I'm pretty sure the newer evos have 38 psi base pressure.

This is what I'll be following for setting up the stock injectors for this MAF scaling.

And we're doing this to a v7 9653 rom, correct?

_________________________________________________________________________

Ok. So I'm back after some quick test. As far as I can tell, we're getting pretty good with the accuracy of information about setting this up, especially since the 98/99 ecu was cracked.

I used those setting above to setup the injectors. Then all I did was copy all the MAF settings out of the 20550011 from a 98 GST. The V7 roms makes it really easy, since the MAF Scaling in supposed to be included.

I loaded up the 96530706 rom with these changes:

Turned off MAP averaging
Dropped knock flash to 755ms

Injector Scaling 424
Injecto Latency
4.69v = 3.825
7.03v = 1.815
9.38v = 1.125
11.72v = 0.795
14.06v = 0.585
16.41v = 0.435
18.68v = 0.315

MAF Size = 286.0
Changed MAF Scaling to 2gMAF + 64Adder
MAF Compensation from 2g
MAF Sensor Filtering from 2g
Baro Comp from 2g
Knoch Multiplier - Low RPM to 24
Immobilizer Disabled

It ran pretty good. The Low LTFT dropped to -6%, the Mid LTFT was also near -6%. This is consistent with the trims I had with my stock ECU, bothstock and modded.

It would run a bit lean here and there. But I didn't have lean spool turned off. I'd say it's a good enough starting point for anyone. Some tweaking to it would probably yield gains on an individual basis.

________________________________________________________________________________________
Here's the MAF Scaling table from V7. Remember V7 has the adder already in the scaling. Previous versions don't.

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So download the 20550011 rom and xml, then copy all the other MAF related tables in. I think I'm going to use this as my starting point, and retune my car with this as a start for by PTE 680s. Just to give it a shot. Eventually the SD stuff will go in.

 

[hediki12]

Next week is going to be like a finals week for me. I have mid-terms Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. I'm going to need something to work on other than schoolwork next week or I'll go nuts.

The injectors are in. Time to make a rom.



This is what I'll be following for setting up the stock injectors for this MAF scaling.

And we're doing this to a v7 9653 rom, correct?

_________________________________________________________________________

Ok. So I'm back after some quick test. As far as I can tell, we're getting pretty good with the accuracy of information about setting this up, especially since the 98/99 ecu was cracked.

I used those setting above to setup the injectors. Then all I did was copy all the MAF settings out of the 20550011 from a 98 GST. The V7 roms makes it really easy, since the MAF Scaling in supposed to be included.

I loaded up the 96530706 rom with these changes:

Turned off MAP averaging
Dropped knock flash to 755ms

Injector Scaling 424
Injecto Latency
4.69v = 3.825
7.03v = 1.815
9.38v = 1.125
11.72v = 0.795
14.06v = 0.585
16.41v = 0.435
18.68v = 0.315

MAF Size = 286.0
Changed MAF Scaling to 2gMAF + 64Adder
MAF Compensation from 2g
MAF Sensor Filtering from 2g
Baro Comp from 2g
Knoch Multiplier - Low RPM to 24
Immobilizer Disabled

It ran pretty good. The Low LTFT dropped to -6%, the Mid LTFT was also near -6%. This is consistent with the trims I had with my stock ECU, bothstock and modded.

It would run a bit lean here and there. But I didn't have lean spool turned off. I'd say it's a good enough starting point for anyone. Some tweaking to it would probably yield gains on an individual basis.

________________________________________________________________________________________
Here's the MAF Scaling table from V7. Remember V7 has the adder already in the scaling. Previous versions don't.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

So download the 20550011 rom and xml, then copy all the other MAF related tables in. I think I'm going to use this as my starting point, and retune my car with this as a start for by PTE 680s. Just to give it a shot. Eventually the SD stuff will go in.

i thought i was the only one that came uo with athat idea. i wanted to test it but i cant flash read or log my ecu... idk whats up with the drivers..my hd is partition into 3 partitions so its making it even worse... when i had 1.34 it worked fine but 1.42 is causing all this problem... and i tried installing 1.34 and it didnt fix it so im realy confused... ill get back to searching in the mornin when i get off work ...

 

[knochgoon24]

i thought i was the only one that came uo with athat idea. i wanted to test it but i cant flash read or log my ecu... idk whats up with the drivers..my hd is partition into 3 partitions so its making it even worse... when i had 1.34 it worked fine but 1.42 is causing all this problem... and i tried installing 1.34 and it didnt fix it so im realy confused... ill get back to searching in the mornin when i get off work ...

Is it that Tactrix drivers giving you trouble, or is it some other driver? What operating system? I've collected quite a few different types of drivers while trying to track down ones that would work with Windows 7.

And my 680cc injectors are back in with new o-rings. No more fuel leak.
_________________________________________________________

EDIT:
So with nothing better to do tonight, I set about getting my car decently tuned before I attempt to get it inspected tomorrow. Instead of jumping straight to adjusting the MAF Scaling, I adjusted the injector size and latencies. For the moment, both my low LTFT and mid LTFT are zero. They were at -6% and -4% before the adjustment and both dropped to zero. Under higher air flows in open loop, it starts to go lean, so I'm going to have to adjust the MAF Scaling now. The drive is nice and responsive.

 

[clockworktoy]

<<6bolt block, 7bolt head, evo 8 ecu ;]. And i don't know why you've had such a hard time with your trims. Ive managed to get both my LTFT and MTFM within 6% after scaling my maf. Im thinking its those PTE injectors you have. Im running stock evo 560's so that might of helped me a bit.

 

[knochgoon24]

<<6bolt block, 7bolt head, evo 8 ecu ;]. And i don't know why you've had such a hard time with your trims. Ive managed to get both my LTFT and MTFM within 6% after scaling my maf. Im thinking its those PTE injectors you have. Im running stock evo 560's so that might of helped me a bit.

I really haven't had too much trouble. I was able to get my trims to stay within 5% on most days. It just seemed that the weather was affecting my tune more than it should with a stock MAF, so I decided to take an other route tuning. Instead of pulling the extra fuel out by adjusting the MAF Scaling, I've increased the injector size and decreased the injector latency. The Ralliart rom does something similar.

I don't plan on keeping the MAF for much longer. I'd rather run SD. Apparently, the SSQV BOV works better vented. So I just want to get a proper setup first.

 

[clockworktoy]

Oh well i don't worry too much about the weather since im in socal where its always like above 80*. But that sounds like a plan, i just ordered my map sensor this week so i should be going with speed density soon too.

 

[knochgoon24]

Yeah. This time of year in PA, the weather goes from a high or 30° one day to 65° the next.

 

[hediki12]

Is it that Tactrix drivers giving you trouble, or is it some other driver? What operating system? I've collected quite a few different types of drivers while trying to track down ones that would work with Windows 7.

And my 680cc injectors are back in with new o-rings. No more fuel leak.
_________________________________________________________

EDIT:
So with nothing better to do tonight, I set about getting my car decently tuned before I attempt to get it inspected tomorrow. Instead of jumping straight to adjusting the MAF Scaling, I adjusted the injector size and latencies. For the moment, both my low LTFT and mid LTFT are zero. They were at -6% and -4% before the adjustment and both dropped to zero. Under higher air flows in open loop, it starts to go lean, so I'm going to have to adjust the MAF Scaling now. The drive is nice and responsive.

windows xp sp2... i cant get rid of the drivers i have and its annoying rite now.... the wont uninstall from the add/remove...

also is it just me or is there no global injector scaling? do we have to use the alt inject scaling?

 

[knochgoon24]

windows xp sp2... i cant get rid of the drivers i have and its annoying rite now.... the wont uninstall from the add/remove...

also is it just me or is there no global injector scaling? do we have to use the alt inject scaling?

There are two spots for injector scaling. If you're not using the alt maps, the only one you have to worry about is under "Main Fuel Settings".

As for the drivers. Plug your cable in. It will load up whatever driver it's trying to use with the cable. Go under the device manager, select the cable/device, right click to open the menu, then click "Uninstall". Reboot the computer then try to reinstall the drivers.

 

[hediki12]

all im getting from ecuflash is unable to connect to vehicle interface... and evoscan just keeps retrying as well as mitsulogger... im praying the cable isnt bad... or the ecu isnt shot... because the battery died and isnt enough to crack the car but the lights come on. i was looking over the pinout diagram there isnt a pin that directly conects the obd2 port to the ecu is there? im starting to just lean to the fact that because dsmlink was in here it was tampered with.. but i dont know much about dsmlink so eh..

 

[knochgoon24]

Try to put some sort of battery pack or charger on it. I use a cheap booster pack to help boost the voltage when the battery is low.

 

[clockworktoy]

If ## battery is low the ecu won't have enough voltage and ecuflash or evoscan won't work.

 

[Ceddy]

i was looking over the pinout diagram there isnt a pin that directly conects the obd2 port to the ecu is there?

Yes the K-Line.

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Connects to ECU Pin 62 OBD Data (Pink Wire)
ECU Pin 56 is also connected, but don't think it is needed for datalogging.


Edit: I have Pin 56 connected to the L-Line in my bench harness, but not 100% sure thats how its connected in the car.

 

[hediki12]

kudos ill try 2morow heading out for work in a bit. my friend is bringing over his laptop ecu n cable from his evo8 2morow, so ill try his stuff after i jump my car

Yes the K-Line.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Connects to ECU Pin 62 OBD Data (Pink Wire)
ECU Pin 56 is also connected, but don't think it is needed for datalogging.


Edit: I have Pin 56 connected to the L-Line in my bench harness, but not 100% sure thats how its connected in the car.

thnx ima make sure the pink wire is going to pin62

 

[tenks03spyder]

I just got my wideband installed in the car and I have a couple things that don't make sense. Fuel trims are maxed positive +24stft and +12.5ltft only thing is at idle it was running 11:1 afr and still saying it needed +24 on the fuel trims. leaning out the maf scaling makes the afr's go up but it's definately not right it still says +24 no matter what the afr is. This is 90550001 rom fyi .

Lol yea now I'm kinda scared... has any1 done this w/a 6 bolt...? But ill keep u guys posted. Took like 20 mins to get the ecu plugs oriented properly n like 10 mins 2 swap out the pins .

it has 1 less bolt on the flywheel will it still work ?

 

[knochgoon24]

I just got my wideband installed in the car and I have a couple things that don't make sense. Fuel trims are maxed positive +24stft and +12.5ltft only thing is at idle it was running 11:1 afr and still saying it needed +24 on the fuel trims. leaning out the maf scaling makes the afr's go up but it's definately not right it still says +24 no matter what the afr is. This is 90550001 rom fyi .

Is your front o2 sensor working properly? Are you sure your injector scaling and latencies are correct?

 

[tenks03spyder]

Is your front o2 sensor working properly? Are you sure your injector scaling and latencies are correct?

I'm pretty sure the O2 sensor is fine the trims were ok with the 95 ecu I was running before. The settings for the evo injectors are known copied from a stock evo 8 rom.

 

[hediki12]

I'm pretty sure the O2 sensor is fine the trims were ok with the 95 ecu I was running before. The settings for the evo injectors are known copied from a stock evo 8 rom.

well that makes no sense ... so your running stock evo inj, 2g maf? is your wbo2 good?if you cant figure it out just throw it in ft open loop. thats what im going to do as soon as i get my wbo and use the maf scaling in the "problem" zones...

 

[tenks03spyder]

well that makes no sense ... so your running stock evo inj, 2g maf? is your wbo2 good?if you cant figure it out just throw it in ft open loop. thats what im going to do as soon as i get my wbo and use the maf scaling in the "problem" zones...

yeah I did that to scale it to 14.7 so it corresponds to the fuel map but the idle is just stupid makes no sense at all. I'm wondering if the rear o2 has anything to do with it. The wb is an innovative LM-1 i also calibrated it and it has a brand new sensor.

 

[mike96]

yeah I did that to scale it to 14.7 so it corresponds to the fuel map but the idle is just stupid makes no sense at all. I'm wondering if the rear o2 has anything to do with it. The wb is an innovative LM-1 i also calibrated it and it has a brand new sensor.

may be try clearing the ecu memory and re-flashing. i have had a couple problems with that in the past where my car wouldnt run correctly after a flash. if not, have you tried a different rom, 9653?

 

[knochgoon24]

My idle is also stupid in open loop. The AFR Map swings wildly between 13.8 and 16.5. I just try to tune idle off closed loop idle LTFT. I just let the car sit and idle for a while. The first idle LTFT doesn't happen until after the car has been at operating temperature for 4 minutes. I just let it idle for half an hour then check and adjust.