Evo 8 ECU In 2g Works!!

[the_mork]

I'm using a GM 3bar and the GM AIT (only one real option on that one). The stock tables will work to get the car around but you'll want to edit them. Mine is running pretty well right now without touching the RPM VE table but I have a very different MAP VE table. You can basically follow the evos in their tables for idle and cruise but above about 5psi it looks like our cars are a little bit less efficient (what a big surprise...). After you get those dialed in you can use your impressive MAF hacking skills to fine tune it the same way that you did with the 2g MAF though it should already be much closer and easier, I haven't even touched the actual MAF tables and so far I'm happy with everything except for cold low throttle and even that is getting pretty close to working well.

When you get that far you should have plenty of help available here.

9.9462          6.98438
24.112          21.9775
50.0324        50.0081
66.0066        59.0412
110.915        109.981
187.169        181.687
263.725        253.3
339.979        325.006

The long decimals come from using interpolation for smoothing.

I've also been meaning to ask you since you seem to have become to some degree or another the local expert on 2g MAF tables, do you have a set of tables that you consider "good enough" for distribution? I'm finally a little bit motivated to start producing a few stock roms for anyone who feels like swapping into the evo ecu.

 

[hediki12]

Hmmm..interesting. I'm not even really sure what version of tephra mod I'm running. Stupid question, but how would I upgrade to tephra v10? How do you upgrade?

no v10 out yet . umm count the tephra adons you have and go here... and just see ### tephra mods you currently has and correlate it to the lists on the site... and boom! yo got it ll

 

[knochgoon24]

...
I've also been meaning to ask you since you seem to have become to some degree or another the local expert on 2g MAF tables, do you have a set of tables that you consider "good enough" for distribution? I'm finally a little bit motivated to start producing a few stock roms for anyone who feels like swapping into the evo ecu.

Thanks for the input on the SD. I figured that we would have a lower VE. That's why cam upgrades net us such nice gains.

I'll probably order the MAP and IAT later this week so I can do the swap over my Thanksgiving break. I won't have classes, but I'll still have work. I live close enough to work that I can ride my bike.


As for the 2g MAF tables:
I have the table that I'm currently running right now. It seems to work fine for me. I've put more than 3500 miles on my car while using this scaling. I'm currently running 95630006 v5.10. I tried running v7 with all the stuff I know changed over to the 2g stuff, but it didn't drive as good as with my current scaling. I haven't really mess with v7 since then. I've been too busy trying to get my car ready for inspection (stupid exhaust leaks and such).

I used to dual boot XP and Vista. I've upgraded from Vista to Windows 7. It wiped out my drivers for my usb-serial cable that I use to log my LC-1. I can't get XP to boot up anymore because it wiped out all the boot information with the new installation. Until I can get XP working or Win7 to accept the driver, I can't log my wideband, and I can't tune. That's my project for this week.

If you want the MAF scaling I'm using now, I can send it to you. I'm not 100% confident in it though. I've had too many odd situations arise. My tune fluctuates with IAT. On really cold days, it runs one way. Hot days another. The MAF temperature compensations don't seem to be correct. Maybe Ceddy could give you all of the 2g MAF tables he can find and Tephra could give you all the matching Evo locations. That may give you (an me) the best results. I don't think we can get away with just changing the MAF compensation from evo numbers to 2g numbers.

My MAF scaling works fine, but I don't want any one to try running it without testing it out for themselves. I'm not running the stock 450cc injectors. I'm running PTE 680s. I plugged in some generic PTE numbers I pulled off the evolutionm injector scaling thread. I've since seen 2 or 3 other latency scalings since then. I have used my MAF scaling tables in the same way as an SAFC. If I have to pass around the equivalent of SAFC settings, maybe I should get numbers with as stock of a setup as I can.

I still have my 450cc injectors. I could probably put them back in and turn the boost down and try to get a scaling that way. It won't be perfect, but it may be a better scaling to use for distribution. I'll have to get my logging setup all squared away first. If you want, I can try to get a MAF scaling for distribution before switching to SD. I just have to get my WBo2 logging to work again. It might take me 2 weeks to get you those numbers.

 

[the_mork]

Which usb adapter are you using FTDI or PL203? I'm using a PL203 adapter right now with vista64 and I could be mistaken but I'm pretty sure that the same driver works for win7(64). I'm not confident about that though so I haven't made the switch to win7 yet. If you tested them and they worked then I would switch. Also you will need to do some funky stuff with evoscan. I'm currently running evoscan 2.7beta2 which is the latest beta that still does maptracing for me. It appears that up to 2.7beta5 are somehow broken or else something changed that I'm not aware of.

Picking up some tables for a stock car would be great. I'm not sure they need to be perfect at all and I would rather leave it up to you to decide what works well and doesn't as well as how much effort you are willing to put into it since I have really never messed with the MAF tables at all as a result of going SD fairly early.

 

[knochgoon24]

I'm running a Radioshack Gigaware USB-Serial adapter. It seems to be one of the most poorly supported cables out there. I think I'm going to try to find a FTDI based usb-serial adapter.

 

[GSXDNA]

no v10 out yet . umm count the tephra adons you have and go here... and just see ### tephra mods you currently has and correlate it to the lists on the site... and boom! yo got it ll

Ah yes...I was confusing v5.10 with V7 for some reason.
So I don't see a V7 for 96530006. Is there one?

And how do I tell what version I'm running now?

 

[the_mork]

96530006 is THE tephra v7 rom. It has its own nomenclature to determine what modifications are in it such as SD, livemapping, etc so you end up getting 96531706 for SD v7 tephramod or 965341706 for SD, livemapped, v7 tephramod.

 

[GSXDNA]

96530006 is THE tephra v7 rom. It has its own nomenclature to determine what modifications are in it such as SD, livemapping, etc so you end up getting 96531706 for SD v7 tephramod or 965341706 for SD, livemapped, v7 tephramod.

Ah, thank you. That makes perfect sense.

 

[clockworktoy]

Hey gsxdna have you changed the rom that was originally flashed into your car? If you haven't your still running an edm rom.

 

[knochgoon24]

I've finally found a driver that works with my USB-Serial cable and Windows 7. Only 4 hours of searching. If I get some free time, I'll swap in the stock 450cc injectors and try to see what I can get for a MAF scaling.

 

[hediki12]

I've finally found a driver that works with my USB-Serial cable and Windows 7. Only 4 hours of searching. If I get some free time, I'll swap in the stock 450cc injectors and try to see what I can get for a MAF scaling.

why dont you try full time open loop? and do you realy see the need to be going back to stock injectors just to scale the maf? what i think you should do is adjust the "dead times". im looking at the scalings we have for the maf and im think there a bit too extreme... and more off than even the 2g stock values provided rom the 98/99 roms.... the focus i think should shift... from maf scaling to injector scaling.... becaus we have a lower base fuel pressure.. just mho

 

[the_mork]

Pretty sure we do not have a lower base fuel pressure, if anything it is higher. I've seen different things said about the base fuel pressure on evos that they are either 38psi or 43.5, ours are 43.5 so it is either the same or higher. I've never seen a satisfactory answer on base evo fuel pressure but I also haven't looked too much.

The reason he is considering going back to stock injectors is to be nice to other people. He wants to find a scaling for the MAF and stock injectors that we can put into a rom that will be the universal base rom for 2g DSMs.

 

[hediki12]

Pretty sure we do not have a lower base fuel pressure, if anything it is higher. I've seen different things said about the base fuel pressure on evos that they are either 38psi or 43.5, ours are 43.5 so it is either the same or higher. I've never seen a satisfactory answer on base evo fuel pressure but I also haven't looked too much.

The reason he is considering going back to stock injectors is to be nice to other people. He wants to find a scaling for the MAF and stock injectors that we can put into a rom that will be the universal base rom for 2g DSMs.

ok makes sense but... ALL CARS are different... you may have seen my maf scaling brought me to 2% +/- with in my ft's and youve seen his im sure it did the same.. and they are far different... people need to stop looking for these plug and play solutions because you can seriously mess up a car ... if he post a "universal" rom and the person flashes it and it makes there ft's max out then it wouldnt be so "universal" now would it. the reason of doing the whole ecu swap is a cheaper way to tune. if some one wants a evo ecu to just have then cool. but if you going to tune it you should understand that all cars are different and that you should learn to customize your own maf since your going to mess with timing, afr's , mods, xmls, ect... just my 2 cents...

 

[knochgoon24]

ok makes sense but... ALL CARS are different... you may have seen my maf scaling brought me to 2% +/- with in my ft's and youve seen his im sure it did the same.. and they are far different... people need to stop looking for these plug and play solutions because you can seriously mess up a car ... if he post a "universal" rom and the person flashes it and it makes there ft's max out then it wouldnt be so "universal" now would it. the reason of doing the whole ecu swap is a cheaper way to tune. if some one wants a evo ecu to just have then cool. but if you going to tune it you should understand that all cars are different and that you should learn to customize your own maf since your going to mess with timing, afr's , mods, xmls, ect... just my 2 cents...

I'm just trying to eliminate 1 more variable. I agree, that people can't just flash this "universal" 2g MAF rom and expect it to work, but I still feel that I need to use 450cc injectors as a baseline to get my MAF scaling.

I'm running PTE 680cc injectors. I've found 3 different possible injector scalings and latencies for these injectors. Which is correct? I'm not completely sure. I'm pretty sure I'm using the correct one.

Compare adjusting for different injectors to using a MAF-T. You set your injector size in the MAF-T, but you still need to use an SAFC dial in a more exact tune. I've used the injector size and injector latency tables the same way as the MAF-T adjustment, and my MAF scaling the same way as an SAFC. I'd rather just start with the 450cc injectors, just because that's something stock on all our cars. If you swap out the injectors, you expect to have to do some tuning. But still, I'm not saying that people with 450cc injectors should expect this scaling to work exactly for them, but it should be a little closer than my PTE 680 scaling.

Also, I need to pull my injectors out anyway. I have 1 leaking o-ring and 2 leaking injector seals. I might as well just swap the 450cc injectors in. It's not like an injector swap takes that long.

 

[the_mork]

I finally got tired of my cold idle/low power issues and started reading. My issues are almost gone now just from following the steps in this post.

evolutionm.net - View Single Post - Poor Cold Idle (Yes I searched)

Which is on page 13 of this thread.

Poor Cold Idle (Yes I searched) - Page 13 - evolutionm.net

I had previously chalked up a fair amount of my low power and missing after a cold start to issues caused by how my SD tune was set up but now the car is nearly perfect from a cold start standpoint, I can still get it to miss and shoot lean if I try but in normal driving it tends to be perfectly happy.

Was anyone else having these problems? I think we discussed it earlier.

 

[clockworktoy]

So it looks like ill be switching over to sd over thanksgiving. Can't wait to switch to psi based boost control from load based.

 

[hediki12]

well im back on the road!!!!! i have a talon tsi 6bolt fuly built motor 272s evo316g and im going to swap in the evo 8 ecu now because its running on evo injectors on a stock ecu .. did that just to get it home. so im thinking about using v7 so ill keep yall posted ..

umm quick question with a 6bolt and the evo8 ecu wats the correct firing order? i know what the 7bolt is but no quite sure on the 6bolt thnx.

 

[Ceddy]

umm quick question with a 6bolt and the evo8 ecu wats the correct firing order? i know what the 7bolt is but no quite sure on the 6bolt thnx.

If you are using a 1G CAS the firing order will be the same as a 97-99 CAS.
Only the 95-96 CAS mess the order up.

 

[hediki12]

If you are using a 1G CAS the firing order will be the same as a 97-99 CAS.
Only the 95-96 CAS mess the order up.

kool. thnx.

 

[knochgoon24]

well im back on the road!!!!! i have a talon tsi 6bolt fuly built motor 272s evo316g and im going to swap in the evo 8 ecu now because its running on evo injectors on a stock ecu .. did that just to get it home. so im thinking about using v7 so ill keep yall posted ..

umm quick question with a 6bolt and the evo8 ecu wats the correct firing order? i know what the 7bolt is but no quite sure on the 6bolt thnx.

So you'll have a 2g DSM running a 1g 6-bolt and an Evo 8 Ecu? Nice.
(Update that profile!)

 

[hediki12]

So you'll have a 2g DSM running a 1g 6-bolt and an Evo 8 Ecu? Nice.
(Update that profile!)

Lol yea now I'm kinda scared... has any1 done this w/a 6 bolt...? But ill keep u guys posted. Took like 20 mins to get the ecu plugs oriented properly n like 10 mins 2 swap out the pins .

 

[knochgoon24]

The differences between a 6-bolt and a 7-bolt have to be less than an Evo 8 4g63 and a 7-bolt. Their engines are completely backwards.

What ecu does your new car have in it right now?

 

[hediki12]

uhhmmmm fwd 97 ecu.. ill see after i get home from school how it idles.. and if it even starts...if it doesnt start ima change the firing order,...

 

[the_mork]

If it has a 97 ecu then you don't have to swap plug or injector wires as long as it is running well now.

The 6bolt looks identical to a 2gb motor to the ecu but to get the best results you will have to run a little bit more timing or boost because of the low compression.

 

[JamiesTSI]

Lol yea now I'm kinda scared... has any1 done this w/a 6 bolt...? But ill keep u guys posted. Took like 20 mins to get the ecu plugs oriented properly n like 10 mins 2 swap out the pins .

<<< 97' TSI AWD 6 bolt 2.3L, speed density, V7 9653