ECMlink ECMLink not reading things I’m logging

[Zanaqqq]

Okay so last night all my values were reading and my car was running okay. Now half my values I log don’t read anymore and car is running bad. I’ve uploaded a picture of a log where the car was running. I’m running speed density on a GM IAT with AEM wideband

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[Zanaqqq]

Be sure to turn on Battery and CrankingFuelAdjust in Captured Values.
Did you read post #122 yet?

Also, tomorrow when the car is still dead cold, before you start it, run a short log without even starting the engine.
Let the log run for another 10 seconds or so after you turn the key off.
The idea is to check to see if the ISCPosition starts at 120 and then goes to 90 after the key is turned off.
The 1g works this way and I think probably the 2g does too.
As far as I know the ecu should act that way even if there is something wrong with the ISC. Even if the ISC harness is completely disconnected! So I'm thinking this is one little check on the ecu that is easily done.
You get different numbers if it's a warm start or a warm shut down.

Here's how it should look with a cold car. This is a log I did way back in 2017 when I was fooling around with ISC stuff a lot.
In this log I turned the key off at about 17 seconds.

I will do that. And I did read that post yes. I’ve set my fuel back to 44.1. And I’ll do that tomorrow or late tonight

 

[Justin DuBois]

In Edit, Captured Values, please turn on Battery and CrankingFuelAdjust.


Justin I don't get it. The -63% I mean. The calculator says -63% for 1200cc injectors but that would be for gasoline. If his fuel is e85 he would have to flow more than that. So his -44 that he had before seems more like it. I don't know, I haven't figured it exactly.
For example, if you have a fuel setting that is correct for 100% gasoline, and you switch to 100% ethanol, you need to flow 63% more volume of fuel to compensate.
Here's my ethanol sensor settings:

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My Global Fuel setting is -70%. That's with the 1650cc Hi-Z injectors that ECMtuning says should be treated as if they are ~1550cc.

Here's something else: ECMtuning wiki https://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/baseinjectordata
Scroll that down to the section called "E85 note". For 1200cc injectors they suggest a Global of -44.1%

You are not wrong - the stoic value in the calculator can be used to find the new % value going from gasoline to ethanol.

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Idle test have little to do with global fuel. You won’t see the impact of the AFR targets, and Global Fuel until you get some WOT data.
Since you already said AFR's were going to 9-10 with a -44% global, pulling more fuel out is the right move. The new AFR targets should help, but you may need to pull more out - and we will know when you have 3rd gear WOT data to look at.

 

[Zanaqqq]

Be sure to turn on Battery and CrankingFuelAdjust in Captured Values.
Did you read post #122 yet?

Also, tomorrow when the car is still dead cold, before you start it, run a short log without even starting the engine.
Let the log run for another 10 seconds or so after you turn the key off.
The idea is to check to see if the ISCPosition starts at 120 and then goes to 90 after the key is turned off.
The 1g works this way and I think probably the 2g does too.
As far as I know the ecu should act that way even if there is something wrong with the ISC. Even if the ISC harness is completely disconnected! So I'm thinking this is one little check on the ecu that is easily done.
You get different numbers if it's a warm start or a warm shut down.

Here's how it should look with a cold car. This is a log I did way back in 2017 when I was fooling around with ISC stuff a lot.
In this log I turned the key off at about 17 seconds.
You might notice I wasn't logging CrankingFuelAdjust yet - tsk tsk

heres the log for the isc position

 

[We're on Boost]

heres the log for the isc position

Well, it went from 119 to 80, which isn't what I expected. But it might be correct for 1997. Somebody might know about that.
Or maybe it's because the coolant temp was 70 degrees. My cold starts are almost always colder than that.

Hey whaddya know, here's one of my logs from a day with 90 degree ambient temps outside, 70 degrees exactly coolant temp at the cold start. It's got 120 before cranking, then 90 after key off, just like when the whole thing is cold. Take a look.
So I guess I'd say either the 1997 ecu is a little different on this, or something is a little off with it.

Also now that I look at it more, it looks like my ISCpos always goes to 90 after shut off after a full warmup. Not sure what it goes to after shut off after only a partial warmup. I don't like to do partial warmups - can't find one at the moment.

 

[steve]

Perhaps it's a good time to remind everyone that the ISC is operated in open loop. The ECU only knows what it wants the ISC position to be not what it actually is. The only feedback it has is if the idle speed changes based on telling the stepper to open or close. If the ISC isn't working you'll usually see the the ECU stepping the position fully open or fully closed because it tried to manage the idle speed with the ISC and couldn't.

Also keep in mind that 1990 ECUs are the ones that are special. They had a different type of ISC and early software.

Historically idle surge is one of the oldest problems these cars have had. Getting the idle air bypass correct is very touchy. I've found that even the smallest changes to the TB can ruin the ability and any vacuum leaks can push you into surging. The butterfly opening is so touchy/critical that Mitsubishi says you shouldn't adjust the fixed SAS (2g) or the IPS (1G) adjustment in the field.

Since the Target idle has been raised (from 750 to 900), you may find you need to also add to the Coasting FC offset to adjust the RPM that the ECU uses for triggering the fuel cut that initiates surging. https://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/revlimiters

Coasting is when the RPMs are higher than idle but the throttle is closed, after a short delay the ECU cuts fuel (you'll see InjOn = 0) and doesn't turn it back on until the RPMs drop below the limit that Coasting FC offset effects to keep the engine from dieing. This parameter can also help with car with lightened flywheels from dieing when you push in the clutch by turning the fuel back on earlier.

As mentioned earlier both timing and fuel also have big impacts on idle speed as anyone who ever worked on a lawnmower knows (or anything with a carburetor) when adjusting for "Lean best idle".

https://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/idlesurge

 

[Justin DuBois]

https://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/idlesurge

Good reference

 

[We're on Boost]

You should still reduce your timing in the top row (0.3 load factor row) like I showed in post #93. It won't cure the vacuum leak of course, but it will make it less obnoxious, and it's a good thing to do even without a vacuum leak when your target idle is ~900 or higher.

 

[Zanaqqq]

You should still reduce your timing in the top row (0.3 load factor row) like I showed in post #93. It won't cure the vacuum leak of course, but it will make it less obnoxious, and it's a good thing to do even without a vacuum leak when your target idle is ~900 or higher.

Alright I’m just replying to this post but I will be doing everything everyone so far has told me to do since yesterday. I’ve ordered a bypass plate which I’ll put on when it gets here.

Something I noticed while putting everything back together is the sensor on the side of the throttle body I forget what it’s called, it seems to be adjustable and on both ends it’s adjusted all the way to one side. Don’t know if that has anything to do with my issue.

I still find it weird it was not surging the day before and the same day it started surging. Nothing was changed in the tune within that time either. Car idles great in open loop but as soon as it gets to closed loop the trims slowly go up to 5.1% or 16.8 and no dead time adjustment seems to move then. Anyways that’s in the logs Ive already uploaded

I’ll probably do another leak test using the wiki website with all places to check.

Also double checking even though I do have the manual adjustable cas I should still leave that box unchecked in ECMLink?

Also would putting the global fuel percentage up make my afr better in boost? No matter what changes were made to my SD table seemed to make no difference. I wouldn’t let off unless car started to read knock and afr was 9

 

[Justin DuBois]

Also double checking even though I do have the manual adjustable cas I should still leave that box unchecked in ECMLink?

With your 97 ECU - the signal it expects from the CAS is the same as a 1G or 2Gb CAS. That checkbox is only to invert the signal when the CAS is not native to the year the ECU is for. Leave the checkbox unchecked.

Also would putting the global fuel percentage up make my afr better in boost? No matter what changes were made to my SD table seemed to make no difference. I wouldn’t let off unless car started to read knock and afr was 9

Before you changed the DA Max Oct AFR targets to 11's, the ECU was trying to hit 10's when WOT. Now it should be targeting 11's. If WOT AFR from the Wideband is not hitting 11, then add or remove global fuel until it is.

 

[Zanaqqq]

With your 97 ECU - the signal from the gas it is expecting is the same as a 1G or 2Gb CAS. That checkbox is only to invert the signal when the CAS is not native to the rear the ECU is for. Leave the checkbox unchecked.


Before you changed the DA Max Oct AFR targets to 11's, the ECU was trying to hit 10's when WOT. Now it should be targeting 11's. If WOT AFR from the Wideband is not hitting 11, then add or remove global fuel until it is.

There does seem to be wires coming out of the cas that definitely don’t look factory so it could be setup for ecu but I’m unsure but yeah I can leave it unchecked

And sounds good that makes sense

 

[Zanaqqq]

okay so heres a log i just took driving and idling. idle is at start and end the afr was better in boost as i was able to hit 16psi safe in this log i think. stil surging and i also am getting a check engine. its a 0505 idle control system malfunction

 

[Justin DuBois]

Next time I want to see the pedal all the way on the floor, if only for two seconds.

 

[Zanaqqq]

Next time I want to see the pedal all the way on the floor.

Makes me nervous

 

[Justin DuBois]

Makes me nervous

Let me look at this thing a little longer - Are you sure your running E85? Your knock sensor should not have much of anything going on - but it does.

 

[We're on Boost]

What kind of fuel pump do you have in the car?
And what are you using for boost control?
Do you have a boost gauge in the car that you can see while driving?
Your CEL is set to light up at 3 degrees of knock which is a good setting. But does your CEL work? Have you ever seen it light up from knock?

 

[Zanaqqq]

I

Let me look at this thing a little longer - Are you sure your running E85? Your knock sensor should not have much of anything going on - but it does.

I am very sure yes, highest knock I’ve seen it 1.1

What kind of fuel pump do you have in the car?
And what are you using for boost control?
Do you have a boost gauge in the car that you can see while driving?
Your CEL is set to light up at 3 degrees of knock which is a good setting. But does your CEL work? Have you ever seen it light up from knock?

Walbaro 450, and I pretty sure I do have a boost controller I have not looked at it. And I do have a boost gauge. And my cel light does work and I’ve never seen it light up for knock

 

[Justin DuBois]

If I select and display averages on a range of the "idle" portions of the log - Average RPM 1500 - Combined FT is showing about 4-5% enrichment - meaning the ECU is adding about 4-5% in closed loop on average in order to reach AFR targets. I would not rely 100% on this data to set global dead time - the idle average is too high to calibrate fuel with it. I really wanted to see an idle RPM average closer to 900-1000. As a guess, you could make a small tweak (15-30 micro seconds) and see if the average Combined FT moves in the right direction - towards 0%

Regards WOT - you have yet to provide some WOT data, so setting the Global Fuel is still not close to correct yet.

Find a straight stretch of road - A freeway onramp is good. Slow - and short shift so that you get into 3rd early. Let the engine BOG - Go 100% throttle at 2000rpm in 3rd, Not much exciting will happen until the turbo builds boost between 3000-4000rpm. Hold WOT for as long as you want, but at least get 100% in the log. Ideally we want something that gets above 4500 rpm, but see what it does.

 

[Zanaqqq]

If I select and display averages on a range of the "idle" portions of the log - Average RPM 1500 - Combined FT is showing about 4-5% enrichment - meaning the ECU is adding about 4-5% in closed loop on average in order to reach AFR targets. I would not rely 100% on this data to set global dead time - the idle average is too high to calibrate fuel with it. I really wanted to see an idle RPM average closer to 900-1000. As a guess, you could make a small tweak (15-30 micro seconds) and see if the average Combined FT moves in the right direction - towards 0%

Regards WOT - you have yet to provide some WOT data, so setting the Global Fuel is still not close to correct yet.

Find a straight stretch of road - A freeway onramp is good. Slow - and short shift so that you get into 3rd early. Let the engine BOG - Go 100% throttle at 2000rpm in 3rd, Not much exciting will happen until the turbo builds boost between 3000-4000rpm. Hold WOT for as long as you want, but at least get 100% in the log. Ideally we want something that gets above 4500 rpm, but see what it does.

The once I did notice yesterday when I was tweaking with the deadtime when it was up to temp was it would not idle under 1500. I’m on like 450 dead time right now or around that and that’s when my fuel trims are reading between -5 and 5 at idle.

I’ll try WOT later today.

 

[We're on Boost]

I

I am very sure yes, highest knock I’ve seen it 1.1


Walbaro 450, and I pretty sure I do have a boost controller I have not looked at it. And I do have a boost gauge. And my cel light does work and I’ve never seen it light up for knock

Walbro 450 ok, boost gauge ok.
CEL - well in your last log the highest knock retard was 2.5 degrees at 592 seconds, so it wouldn't have lit up.
If you want to check for working knock CEL you could temporarily set knock CEL to 1 degree. That would have shown up several times in the last log. Then set it back to 3 degrees.

Boost control, well, having a gauge is a good start, but we'll have to figure out the boost control pretty soon as you work your way into doing pulls. With a 16g turbo on it, you could get some pretty wild boost already at 5000 rpm, just depending on stuff.
Are you pretty sure it's a 16g turbo?

 

[We're on Boost]

BTW if you have trouble finding things of interest in your logs, you could pick out a few things that you want to stand out, and make them stand out by right clicking them, pick the top item in the right click menu (preferences), and then check the box for Thick Line and maybe also the box for Dashed Line. Then if the color is that dark blue or some other really dark color, change the color to a brighter one. The dark blue is the one I find to be the most invisible.

 

[Zanaqqq]

Walbro 450 ok, boost gauge ok.
CEL - well in your last log the highest knock retard was 2.5 degrees at 592 seconds, so it wouldn't have lit up.
If you want to check for working knock CEL you could temporarily set knock CEL to 1 degree. That would have shown up several times in the last log. Then set it back to 3 degrees.

Boost control, well, having a gauge is a good start, but we'll have to figure out the boost control pretty soon as you work your way into doing pulls. With a 16g turbo on it, you could get some pretty wild boost already at 5000 rpm, just depending on stuff.
Are you pretty sure it's a 16g turbo?

I’m pretty sure it works so I’m not worried about it. I’ll look today and my boost controller in the engine bay and let you know. And it’s definitely a smaller 16g but I’ll look when I get home

 

[Zanaqqq]

BTW if you have trouble finding things of interest in your logs, you could pick out a few things that you want to stand out, and make them stand out by right clicking them, pick the top item in the right click menu (preferences), and then check the box for Thick Line and maybe also the box for Dashed Line. Then if the color is that dark blue or some other really dark color, change the color to a brighter one. The dark blue is the one I find to be the most invisible.

Turbo is a td05-20g and grimspeed boost controller

 

[We're on Boost]

I’ll look today and my boost controller in the engine bay and let you know. And it’s definitely a smaller 16g but I’ll look when I get home

Yeah I'm not too worried about it either cuz I think you will be careful, but make sure you have boost hoses connected to the turbo at one end and the wastegate actuator at the other end, and not loose fitting. You've probably done that a lot already since looking for boost leaks, but whatever.
Take a look at what my car did in 2014 when it was pretty stock and it had the original 14b turbo on it (it was like you see in my other profile, the tile showing the ecu relocated to passenger footwell). This happened when a boost hose blew off and I didn't know it until later. I thought my boost was 15 psi but then all of a sudden it was 25psi. I was only WOT for a fraction of a second. No harm done though.
Look at the knock sum table and the knock voltage table. Knock sum in that logger was the same thing as "RawKnock" in ECMlink. Knock Sum of 6 gives a Knock Retard of 2.1 degrees.
Knock Voltage shows when the knock event actually happened. Usually it's like this, a single event that comes and goes very fast, like a spike. The knock Retard (or Sum) then jumps up and then decrements (trickles back down) slowly. You don't have actual knock happening for the whole time that ECMlink shows knock retard.

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[We're on Boost]

Turbo is a td05-20g and grimspeed boost controller

Ok. You should add all these items to your Vehicle profile! It makes it a lot easier for people to refresh their memory about what your car is. Too hard going back through the thread trying to find all this stuff.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Turbo is a td05-20g and grimspeed boost controller

A bastard 20g? TD05 compressors don’t come in a 20G flavor unless they have been machined and paired with a 20G compressor wheel.