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E85 goo - this time with an attitude

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You're nasty Craig. Now its time for me to get off my ass and pull my 40 micron filter...

The "old school" method of running a tank of 91 with every oil change has fought the E85 goo battle with good results for me, now I'm nervous though.

Seems that instead of running SS/Proclassic line from the tank to the rail maybe a bigger ID hardline is the best option? Interested to hear your results after soaking some SS line in E85 for a few weeks, only time will tell.

:dsm:
 

I've actually looked for that, but it's not on the shelves of any stores around here that I've found.

I try to avoid additives of any kind in general, in any of my fluids. I only used the Stabil because it is "made for ethanol fuels" and seemed that maybe it would prevent this known issue. After my limited bench testing though, it looks like Sea Foam is the only thing that may help from what I've seen so far. I would be curious to try some of the Lucas stuff on some goo and see if it dissolves it though.

The "old school" method of running a tank of 91 with every oil change has fought the E85 goo battle with good results for me, now I'm nervous though.

Yeah...this is a different beast altogether. I've never seen anything other than injector buildup as far as the actual E85 goo goes, but I did see that happen within one tank of E85 after running a tank of 91. If this is because of the Stabil, then they have some serious marketing problems, since I've only used the blends designed for ethanol-based fuels (and it never did THAT ^). Regardless, I'm done with Stabil because it didn't do squat to dissolve the goo on the bench test. :)

I really think the station had a major mixing issue or something. I'm going to try and find a few other people who have filled up there recently and see if they have noticed anything.

I have learned one very important thing: Injectors can handle quite a bit of buildup it seems before you notice a performance drop off, but once it attacks a filter it's amazing how fast it can pack it off. My car went from a very minor fuel trim change (something like +3% when I first noticed it), to completely choked and not running...within about 30-40 miles of normal driving. And that was with global fuel maxed and injector IDC's at 100% while just trying to limp the car home at 30 mph.

That tells me that the sock on the filter went from free-flowing to almost completely clogged in less than 1/4 of a tank of E85. That's just scary.
 
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Good thing you weren't doing a WOT pull, a quarter mile, or autox event or you'd probably be pulling more out of that engine bay then just a fuel filter. Thats crazy, makes me want to check my filter for peace of mind. Its seen E85 for over a year and 91 through it every 3k to clean the goo from the injectors, wonder how it looks?

:dsm:
 
What injectors do you run? I have an all stock fuel system except got a 255hp and fic750s and I have never had goo. I never run additives either.

I was on Blue Max 1250's for a couple years (I think), and now I'm running Blue Max 1350's.

I never had goo at all for the first year or two, and then it just magically started showing up around here.
 
I would talk to the gas station and tell them about that and with supporting example if possible.
 
Do you think getting a aluminum or stainless steel fuel cell and some 316l hardline tubing from the fuel cell to your fuel filter would fix this?

It looks like the ethanol is dissolving whatever stuff has built up inside your fuel tank. Or the ethanol is dissolving the coating inside the gas tank. It may be a combination of both actually.
 
Do you think getting a aluminum or stainless steel fuel cell and some 316l hardline tubing from the fuel cell to your fuel filter would fix this?

It looks like the ethanol is dissolving whatever stuff has built up inside your fuel tank. Or the ethanol is dissolving the coating inside the gas tank. It may be a combination of both actually.

If you actually read the details this only started happening in between his last two tank fills. So it has nothing to do with the parts on his car.

Either the truck that pumping E85 is leaving something behind there is some sort of contamination going on with the E85 supply there.

This story makes me glad I'm sticking with pump 93oct gas :)

I hope you figure it out! Looks scary to me.

As if 93 is any safer ...
 
Do you think getting a aluminum or stainless steel fuel cell and some 316l hardline tubing from the fuel cell to your fuel filter would fix this?

It looks like the ethanol is dissolving whatever stuff has built up inside your fuel tank. Or the ethanol is dissolving the coating inside the gas tank. It may be a combination of both actually.

Read the entire thread. It's not anything in the fuel system; it's something in the E85 that is crashing out for some reason.

I'm pretty sure it was the Stabil that caused it....I just don't know why or how.

EDIT: David beat me to it. :)
 
The marine blend (blue) is supposedly for ethanol fuels and high moisture environments. They just came out with a new blend (orange) that is specifically for ethanol blended fuels.

Marine blend
Ethanol blend


I wonder where its ''keeping this moisture'' as it claims LOL...

Here I've known about this part from ATL fuel cells i've put it to use I think its $150 or something I don't remember.

Right side of the PDF TF629

http://www.atlinc.com/pdfs/Racing/2011ATL-complete-catalog-web 23.pdf
 
The problem isn't moisture though. The goo is actually a gum that is a necessary part of the e85 chemistry (as far as I know, based on everything I've read), and wouldn't be a problem if it stayed in solution. The problem is that for some unknown reason, it occasionally comes out of solution and appears as our friend the "goo".

Since Sta-bil has been around a while and has a good reputation, I figured the ethanol blends would help dissolve any goo that did crash out. But after that ^ little piece of hell and the bench testing I did, it doesn't look like it does squat except maybe make the stuff crash out faster once you cross a certain concentration level.

I still think my old friend Sea Foam is the answer... but it will be another tank or two of 91 before I'm ready to start testing it.
 
The problem isn't moisture though. The goo is actually a gum that is a necessary part of the e85 chemistry, and wouldn't be a problem if it stayed in solution. The problem is that for some unknown reason, it occasionally comes out of solution and appears as our friend the "goo".

Since Sta-bil has been around a while and has a good reputation, I figured the ethanol blends would help dissolve any goo that did crash out. But after that ^ little piece of hell and the bench testing I did, it doesn't look like it does squat except maybe make the stuff crash out faster once you cross a certain concentration level.

I still think my old friend Sea Foam is the answer... but it will be another tank or two of 91 before I'm ready to start testing it.



Does Stabil claim that doesn't affect octane and the such it's claim to keep out moisture well how is it doing that on a vented tank thats open to atmosphere? Moisture has to come in contact in order for it to some how contain its self in the tank and what does that leave behind ?

I'm putting that into perspective since you say it may be the cause..
 
I just pulled my pumps and filter element last night after seeing this. Mine still look mint.

Which I would expect in most cases. This is absolutely not the norm for e85.

This story makes me glad I'm sticking with pump 93oct gas :)

Don't let my little adventure scare you away from e85. Like I said above, this is definitely not normal. Something happened in my case that took the occasional (and mostly just annoying) goo issue to a whole other level.

Moisture has to come in contact in order for it to some how contain its self in the tank and what does that leave behind ?

I wonder where its ''keeping this moisture'' as it claims LOL...

I'm no chemist, but to the best of my knowledge there are only two ways to remove water from something like a fuel: either separate it out and physically remove it (sometimes in a single process, such as how ethanol is distilled in the first place), or by changing it's chemical properties so it no longer acts like water.

My guess is that all of these moisture-fighting additives use the second approach in one way or another.
 
Just my .02cents is that it might actually be the rubber lines. I have first hand experience with e-85 eating my braided stainless lines. I had put brand new braided stainless lines on my car probably two years ago. A couple of months ago I got my car running again after it had sat for a few months, probably four months and when I went to prime the system I had over 10 big fuel leaks in the line itself. It had to of been from the e-85 sitting in the system. But on on another note I did replace the line with some more braided stainless I had laying around and haven't had problems yet. Also my lines have never seen regular gas. It has been straight e-85 from day one.
Best of luck to you man and let us know what you figure out!
 
Which I would expect in most cases. This is absolutely not the norm for e85.



Don't let my little adventure scare you away from e85. Like I said above, this is definitely not normal. Something happened in my case that took the occasional (and mostly just annoying) goo issue to a whole other level.





I'm no chemist, but to the best of my knowledge there are only two ways to remove water from something like a fuel: either separate it out and physically remove it (sometimes in a single process, such as how ethanol is distilled in the first place), or by changing it's chemical properties so it no longer acts like water.

My guess is that all of these moisture-fighting additives use the second approach in one way or another.

Craig,

It has to be that E85 station up there. Since I am coming over later to put the 1250s in and run E85 full-time, maybe we can see what my injectors/filter looks like after running 9 months on an E50 blend. I use the OnCue in Midwest City and haven't had a problem. There could be a little goo or something, but nothing that has effected me. Hell, they might even be clean! I know the E50 blend isn't the best comparison, but me running it as long as I have should say something about the fuel they're selling. Looks like someone might have to start going to Midwest City... :sneaky:
 
Just my .02cents is that it might actually be the rubber lines.

It's not the lines or anything in my fuel system. Please read the entire thread. ;)

It has to be that E85 station up there.

I don't think so. Plenty of people get gas there, and I can't find any other cases of this. In fact, I've never seen ANYTHING like this, in person or posted on the net.

maybe we can see what my injectors/filter looks like after running 9 months on an E50 blend.

The goo doesn't seem to crash out with higher concentrations of gasoline, so you probably won't see anything.
 
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