e85 and filter to rail line

[95burgundyesi]

To run e85 with a single walbro 255 rewired, 1000cc injectors at 85% IDC and 43lbs of air will I need a -6 filter to rail line or will the stock line flow enough?

 

[Boosted98gsx]

43 lbs/min of airflow will overpower the walbro 255 for fuel supply. You may want to consider adding a bosch 044 inline or running parallel intank walbros. Also, at this point, the banjo fitting in the OEM filter is going to become a MAJOR bottleneck. Consider either replacing the OEM filter with a full filter to rail kit, or just go ahead and re-plumb the feed from the tank.

 

[turboglenn]

You should be able to do that through the stock lines. I now have -6 but that wasnt' my real restriction, it was having on one walbro 255 that was my weak link.

I first hit 100% IDC at 25 psi on my 720's, then when I upgraded to 1000's i hit over 95% at the same boost levels right away during the tune so I had to dig into the real problem. I ended up with dual in tank walbros, and that's when my lines became the restriction.

Since then i've done a setup where the 2 pumps have their own seperate lines from the hanger and go -6 as soon as they leave the tank. Then the pair of them "Y" into another -6 line with a junction box i made from aluminum. The only reason i didn't go from two -6 lines into a -8 is because the -6 on paper can carry well enough ethanol for my goal of 500 horse power and the -8 was just that much more expensive and requires just that slight bit more room for mounting that took it out of the picture once i learned it wasn't a nessecity.

TO add to boosted98's comments, i totally spaced the fact that you will definitely have to replace at least the filter and the line from it to the rail with one of the many kits out there. Get a SS cleanable filter element as teh E85 will clean tons of crap from your tank and clog an easy 3 filters in the first 5 - 10 tanks... you'll start noticing you're leaner and leaner until it becomes dangerous,,,then you notice you can't even blow through the filter

 

[2gGSX]

I run straight E85 through my setup with a single 255HP and stock equipment from there until the injectors. So far at 50 lbs/min, mid 80% IDCs on 1150's, and 12.5:1 gas AFR, everything seems to hold up fine. YMMV though as I didn't expect this setup to handle the airflow to be honest.

 

[95burgundyesi]

I am replacing my walbro 190 with a 255 on friday, and I am going to check IDC. I knew the filters would get clogged up fast, I just run the auto parts 10 dollar one. The feed kit is only like 60 bucks, not too bad.

I have a few friends who have told me they ahve ran stock lines in their 1gs. I will try it and see what dsmlink logs. Duel pumps would be kinda cool but if I still don't have enough pump I think I will do boost a pump.

 

[turboglenn]

I recomend the fuelab 818 kit that extremepsi sells, and order it with the SS filter. It's a nice looking piece that comes with everything needed to adapt the new filter on, mount it to the firewall and do the plumbing the rest of the way to the rail.

MY car did okay on stock lines but i wasn't able to max out my turbo, which now i can and the second pump was the only thing that solved it. The main reason for upgrading the lines after this was that the return was so small that it kept my fuel pressure too high even after some mods to the return system, so i knew i had to run a better return. Of course my thinking was that if i'm going to run a new line from back to front it was going to be a larger feed, this allowed me to use the OEM feed as the return and el;iminated both issues with one fix.

BEst of luck with it, fueling issues can frustrate the piss outta some one

sgGSX do you have any logs of the 50lb/mn pulls on the OEM lines and the single 255? I would like to compare them to some of mine although i wasn't wuite getting 50lb/min

 

[jrohner]

To run e85 with a single walbro 255 rewired, 1000cc injectors at 85% IDC and 43lbs of air will I need a -6 filter to rail line or will the stock line flow enough?

I don't see why you'd have any issues with the stock lines and filter at only 43 lbs/min of airflow, unless you're tuning crazy rich.

All I have is a pump and 750 injectors and I've never had any issues; I'm flowing about 40 lbs/min of airflow. I'm still running all stock lines, filter, and FPR.

 

[evileclipse909]

I would just upgrade the line from the filter to the rail with a -6. I just got a 12mm/1.25to-6 adaptor fitting to screw right into the stock filter. I just finally got 780 injectors and swaped to e85 yesturday so I'm not sure what kind of problems Im going to run into yet. I completely cleaned out my tank and lines 6 months ago when I went awd so I dont think I'll have any problems with the stock filter.

 

[94awdcoupe]

I am going to be converting car to E85 today. Been doing a lot of research on how much fuel pump and what size injectors are needed. Mostly been following over on evolutionm.net. ton of converts over there.

Couple of points. Single pump and 1000s are good to 425-475 whp dynojet. From what I have seen. That will easily max a 43lb turbo

second point. evos dont have fuel filter clog problem. They dont have filters from factory. They only have fuel pump sock. thats all the filter that is actually necessary. especially with large injectors that are not likely to foul up.

I personally am going to max my 47lb turbo on 1000s and single in tank supra pump. The injectors I am using are the new injector dynamics bosch 1000s. Instead complexity of two pumps I choose to run kenne bell "boost a pump". This allows pump to see 18v under boost. Flow 50% more from one pump sounds more attractive than twin pump setups. I dont like walbro pumps they are known to fail. Having two in the system makes me cringe. That is like running 93/meth and having one pump fail while racing. The very reason I am converting to e85 in first place. If single pump fails you wont hurt motor. if single pump fails in twin pump system you go lean.

If I dont get enough fuel from stock regulator I will crush regulator till I get desired volume. The new bosch injectors are awesome. read up on them. you can run 90psi base and 45psi boost if your fuel pump is up to the task. these injectors flow 1500cc at 100psi.

94awdcoupe

 

[turboglenn]

I personally am going to max my 47lb turbo on 1000s and single in tank supra pump. The injectors I am using are the new injector dynamics bosch 1000s. Instead complexity of two pumps I choose to run kenne bell "boost a pump". This allows pump to see 18v under boost. Flow 50% more from one pump sounds more attractive than twin pump setups. I dont like walbro pumps they are known to fail. Having two in the system makes me cringe. That is like running 93/meth and having one pump fail while racing. The very reason I am converting to e85 in first place. If single pump fails you wont hurt motor. if single pump fails in twin pump system you go lean.

If I dont get enough fuel from stock regulator I will crush regulator till I get desired volume. The new bosch injectors are awesome. read up on them. you can run 90psi base and 45psi boost if your fuel pump is up to the task. these injectors flow 1500cc at 100psi.

94awdcoupe

What will you be running for fuel lines, especially from the filter to rail? Also, do you have a link to these injector?, If they have something that really does what you say and they come in a 720cc size i may drop back down to run those so i can get the idle tune i want from the stand alone.

I'd really love the fine tuning of 720's again, because i like a near factory cruise and daily driving that's harder to get on 1000's and maintane a perfect 14.7 - 15.5 AFR, on 1k's even as little as a 1% or .001 - .002ms change in PW at idle can take you from 13's to as rich as 10.5 - 11:1 on 1kj's, and with 1600's it's even more insane to try and get an idle or low rpm parking lot driving that will pass emissions (yes, i am that picky on my tune) but this is because they just have to run fat at idle and light high vacum cruise because of the fact that no current injector will fire reliably below .96 ms, the minimum standard for a good factory idle is above 2.0ms at idle at roughly 5 - 7% IDC... So, that's why if i can get away with a smaller injector I will run them again. A lot of people ho report perfect idles on that big of injector are just idling really rich (but there are exceptions)

And 2 things. 1.) you may be surprised at how different your power level vs. fuel needs really add up in comparison to research you've done with mathematical figures. Although the math don't lie, the math don't account for variables, and you'll run into a lot of them especially in the beggining of your switch (although it's an easy switch their's always hiccups)

and 2.) your last paragraph you speak of crushing your regulator to gain fuel. Now I'm not dogging on you but that's an aweful crude and unreliable way of adding fuel that could easily "go wrong" out of no where and ruin a motor you've spent good money to build, and even if you don't care about the current motor, remember that broken motor pices can exit the exhaust valve sometimes and make broken turbo pieces.

I only bring it up because i watched a guy popping his little 1.6 honda motor as an official sacrifice to the car gods before he started the swap to his newly built 1.8 ls vtec....well, when the 1.6 went some proken vlave and ring land pieces made their way out the port and took out the turbine on a turbo he had just spent something like 1400 dolars on and then he had to send it back and spend another 500 for them to fix the turbo and it wasnt' even a month old. So then he was stuck with a built ass motor and his previous little t3 60 trim turbo to push it until he got his BB one back

It sure was fun to watch though, but painfull, even if it was a honduh

 

[JayRolla]

People up here are getting away with way over 50 lb/min on stock lines with e85. They really dont need upgraded. Just the fuel filter if you think it need done. My car has been on stock fuel lines and filter for over a year and the filter is just fine.

Also you should be good on the pump. I see 40lb/min and my pump is not rewired at all and I have not ran out of fuel.

 

[diambo4life]

I don't know about 2Gs but I can say from personal experience that the stock 1G AWD fuel line is enough for that goal. I have dyno'd 540whp with completely stock fuel system other than the injectors and intank (Bosch 044) fuel pump. The car trapped 128mph at that power level. Full trim 1G AWD. 3,150lbs.