DSMLink v3 SD rich? I need help

[Mechman518]

Ok, here is the deal; I built a 6 bolt with all the right stuff (everything in mod list). However, I didn't/don't have a MAF to help me with the VE table. It seems I am very good at keeping vehicles running within the stock range but when it comes to modification, not so good. I can do / have done all the modifications to the engine but I can't seem to get this tuning stuff down. I just need someone to eyeball this log and make recommendations as far as what to change. I think it is way too rich and I also think I have a lot of power left in the engine that I can't seem to get out of it.

Just check over the logs and let me know...


Thanks

Mech

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The mod list on the car is:

ARP main studs
ARP head studs
ARP rod studs,
BC eliminated,
Fidanza 8 lbs flywheel,
ACT 2600 PP and clutch,
New throw out bearing,
NGK spark plugs and wires,
OEM oil pump,
95 EPROM ECU with Link v3 speed density,
AEM 3.5 bar map,
AEM wideband wired to replace front O2 and gauge,
GM IAT,
Eagle rods and 88mm crank,
Wiseco pistons 8.5 comp,
ACL bearing kit,
FMIC,
HKS BOV,
TiAL WG,
PTE 6376E turbo with .82 AR housing,
T3 SS tubular exhaust manifold (wrapped),
3 inch SS O2 housing,
Full 3 inch SS HKS exhaust,
PTE 880 injectors,
Fuel lap AFPR,
Wally 255,
Mishimoto radiator,
2 FAL slim fans,
New radiator cap,
97 engine harness,
HKS turbo timer,
Converted Talon rear to Eclipse rear with high rise spoiler,
Saturn 200 amp alternator,
6 bolt intake,
Short throw shifter.
Slotted and drilled front rotors,
Hawk brake pads,
GSX front bumper, rims, rear hatch, rear bumper, and rear lights with center section
Projector halos with HID

The car still runs like crap; I need bigger cams, better valve springs, and a tune (I don't know how to tune , the car still runs on close to default Link settings). Along with both CV axels, drivers door lock actuator, another condenser, a Shep stage 3 transmission, paint, and a few other things.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I don't see MAP, IAT, or a wideband being logged. Are you capturing them? What is your AFR at WOT? Why do you think you are running rich? Are you on pump gas?

On your idle log your combinedFT's look great but your AirFlowPerRev is staying around .21, it should be at .25 assuming you've got a 2.0.

Have you done the SDVE Adjust (CombindedFT) with some closed loop data? That will help dial in your VE table in closed loop and then you can dial it in for open loop WOT by aligning your AirFuelRatio with AirFuelRatioEst.

 

[Mechman518]

I don't see MAP, IAT, or a wideband being logged. Are you capturing them? What is your AFR at WOT? Why do you think you are running rich? Are you on pump gas?

On your idle log your combinedFT's look great but your AirFlowPerRev is staying around .21, it should be at .25 assuming you've got a 2.0.

Have you done the SDVE Adjust (CombindedFT) with some closed loop data? That will help dial in your VE table in closed loop and then you can dial it in for open loop WOT by aligning your AirFuelRatio with AirFuelRatioEst.

I have MAP (AEM35Bar) in the log, IAT is fixed at 77 deg but is in the log as (IntTep) and wideband is also in the log as (AEMWBGauge) the numbers it reports are accurate. I also have idle air clamp on to help with the idle surge I was getting only when it was hot. and the WB gauge reads 10.0 on the top end the entire time..

I am on 93 pump gas, and the SDVE Adjust was ran a few times; however, with each time the idel got worse and worse. This is why I enabled the idle air camp.

Thanks
Mech

Also noticethe time it takes to spool the turbo. I was almost to redline before it hit full PSI.. can this be improved on by tuning?

 

[slikvik]

Your not logging your gm iat. It's not even specified in pin assignments on the ecu inputs tab. You have to tell ecmlink to log it, and i do believe it has to be wired in at the ecu's iat input as well.

IntTep is the ecu's stock intake temp measure and it is always locked at 77 which is why your not seing any change with it.

 

[Mechman518]

Ahh ok I will change it in the morning... Will the IAT help with the rich condition at WOT, or is it the VE table, or even the MaxOct table? I did copy the MaxOct table to the MinOct Table, I was advised to do so on the ECMTuning site.

 

[slikvik]

Yeah, IAT should help some. But I don't think that's gonna make a huge difference, your definitely running very rich.

You can either change your VE map or use the fuel sliders to lean out. It's really up to you.

 

[Mechman518]

Im on Sd I am not sure if the sliders will help... I think I may need to adjust the Max Oct Table to get the AFRs down just a tad.. I'm going to try and drop it down about 1 AFR and see what happens..

Thanks
Mech

 

[snowborder714]

Adjusting the MaxOctane table will only work if your wideband is reading perfectly what the MaxOctane table is saying it should read. Otherwise, you need to (most likely) adjust your VE table. See here on how to do it.
sdveadjcomft [ECMTuning - wiki]

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I have MAP (AEM35Bar) in the log, IAT is fixed at 77 deg but is in the log as (IntTep) and wideband is also in the log as (AEMWBGauge) the numbers it reports are accurate. I also have idle air clamp on to help with the idle surge I was getting only when it was hot. and the WB gauge reads 10.0 on the top end the entire time..

I am on 93 pump gas, and the SDVE Adjust was ran a few times; however, with each time the idel got worse and worse. This is why I enabled the idle air camp.

Thanks
Mech

Also noticethe time it takes to spool the turbo. I was almost to redline before it hit full PSI.. can this be improved on by tuning?

Another thing is that your global fuel is set at -48.4. ECMTuning recommends -45 with the PTE 880's because they actually flow like 840's. Check out this link: baseinjectordata.

Have you verified that your fuel pressure is correctly set at 43 psi? Either with the engine off and the fuel pump activated via link or with the engine running at normal operating temp at base idle with the vacuum line off and plugged? You have to get your fuel set first. Then dial in your injectors and AirflowPerRev at idle, then closed loop tuning (SDVE Adjust), before moving to WOT tuning. Do everything in order and you will be happy with the results.

Also have you done a boost leak test? I would suspect some especially since you said you are having problems with idle surge. I'm sure you've heard it said that boost leaks don't effect SD but that is not true. My PCV line ripped recently and I would tell because the car started idle surging and idling super high and that was with SD. Boost leaks will cause you to run richer too so do a boost leak test ASAP, before you do anymore tuning.

 

[Mechman518]

Adjusting the MaxOctane table will only work if your wideband is reading perfectly what the MaxOctane table is saying it should read. Otherwise, you need to (most likely) adjust your VE table. See here on how to do it.
sdveadjcomft [ECMTuning - wiki]

The gauge and the AFRatioEst is off as much as 1.1 AFR in some places in the log.. So I need to adjust the VE table more..

Thanks

Another thing is that your global fuel is set at -48.4. ECMTuning recommends -45 with the PTE 880's because they actually flow like 840's. Check out this link: baseinjectordata.

Have you verified that your fuel pressure is correctly set at 43 psi? Either with the engine off and the fuel pump activated via link or with the engine running at normal operating temp at base idle with the vacuum line off and plugged? You have to get your fuel set first. Then dial in your injectors and AirflowPerRev at idle, then closed loop tuning (SDVE Adjust), before moving to WOT tuning. Do everything in order and you will be happy with the results.

Also have you done a boost leak test? I would suspect some especially since you said you are having problems with idle surge. I'm sure you've heard it said that boost leaks don't effect SD but that is not true. My PCV line ripped recently and I would tell because the car started idle surging and idling super high and that was with SD. Boost leaks will cause you to run richer too so do a boost leak test ASAP, before you do anymore tuning.

Ahh good info!! I did the base fuel pressure with the engine at idle and the AFPR hooked up to vac. so I need to go and change the fuel settings before I do anything with the VETable!! I did do a BLT and I have a very small leak around the TB shaft seals. The idle surge is due to an inop ISC motor, I just havent replaced it yet.


Thanks
Mech

 

[snowborder714]

The idle surge is due to an inop ISC motor, I just havent replaced it yet.

I would do this soon before you blow the ISC drivers in the ECU and then you'll have a bigger problem.

 

[Mechman518]

I would do this soon before you blow the ISC drivers in the ECU and then you'll have a bigger problem.

Yea, I know. They just cost so much...


ok so back to the tune, if I make the AirflowPerRev read at 0.26 I have to take the VE table to like 70's or very high 60's to get the air flow to read correctly. These numbers just don't make sense to me. The default table starts at like 55 or so. I know my engine isn't that volumetrically efficient. No way am I 70% VE at idle... What do other tables look like?

I'm also beginning to wonder is the fuel injectors are bigger than I thought. I believe they are PTE 880; however, when I set my global and deadtime per the table on DSMLink it runs mad rich, and yes I reset my base pressure correctly.


Thanks

Mech

 

[snowborder714]

Take a look at the injectors themselves, even if you remove them completely from the rail/head.

Here's my VE table for reference. Do what you have to do to make the numbers read right. Make sure you don't have any boost leaks either.

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[9!'clipseDOHC]

My VE cells at idle are 67.5 and 70.5.

I'm sure there are some serial numbers on the injectors that will allow you to identify the size. Like I said above, you have to get your fuel properly set FIRST.

Here is my VE table for comparison as well:

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[Mechman518]

I would do this soon before you blow the ISC drivers in the ECU and then you'll have a bigger problem.

How can you tell if you blow the drivers in the ECU?

 

[snowborder714]

driver01 [ECMTuning - wiki]

 

[Mechman518]

My VE cells at idle are 67.5 and 70.5.

I'm sure there are some serial numbers on the injectors that will allow you to identify the size. Like I said above, you have to get your fuel properly set FIRST.

Here is my VE table for comparison as well:

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Take a look at the injectors themselves, even if you remove them completely from the rail/head.

Here's my VE table for reference. Do what you have to do to make the numbers read right. Make sure you don't have any boost leaks either.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I'm am very glad to see this!! I thought something was bad wrong with the ECU or just way off.

Thanks very much!!!


PS you guys are fast to respond!!!

 

[snowborder714]

Nate, do you tune yours by hand? Just wondering if you've ever used the Excel sheet my brother and I came up with. The table just looks too pretty

 

[Mechman518]

driver01 [ECMTuning - wiki]

Thanks for the link!! I did remove the ECU and check it out the other day and I didn't see anything burnt or out of place so I think my ECU is ok.. (I hope)


Mech

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I'm am very glad to see this!! I thought something was bad wrong with the ECU or just way off.

Thanks very much!!!


PS you guys are fast to respond!!!

You are welcome, This is actually the first time I've really been on all day, just happened to work out for you.

The VE table shouldn't go over 100, but as you can see in both mine and Brian's tables, sometimes it happens. Get your fuel set, use the SDVE Adjust, and align your AFR and your AFREST at WOT and then go with it.

 

[Mechman518]

that is a pretty table!! I like all the colors!!!

You are welcome, This is actually the first time I've really been on all day, just happened to work out for you.

The VE table shouldn't go over 100, but as you can see in both mine and Brian's tables, sometimes it happens. Get your fuel set, use the SDVE Adjust, and align your AFR and your AFREST at WOT and then go with it.

The AFR and the AFREst should be aligned with the VE table right?

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Nate, do you tune yours by hand? Just wondering if you've ever used the Excel sheet my brother and I came up with. The table just looks too pretty

Haha, yeah it's all by hand. I read his thread on the link forums and tired it once but I couldn't get it to work. I think it has something to with my Mac and Mac version of Office. That or i'm just slow with Excel. I'll blame the Mac for now

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

that is a pretty table!! I like all the colors!!!



The AFR and the AFREst should be aligned with the VE table right?

Once you have you fuel set and you know it's correct, then yes, you can align those two using your VE table. The higher the cell in the VE table, the lower the AFREst (I think thats right anyways).

 

[snowborder714]

There's a video now up that shows to use it that may help you Nate. Here's the thread if either you or the OP want to use it. OP, keep in mind this is for WOT tuning, not dialing in the rest of the VE table.
ECMTuning User Support Forums


You want AFR and AFRatioEst to line up, but you will line them up using VE table adjustments. Once you get them lined up (should be able to do "Track Log" in the DA MaxOctane table and see the AFR match the value), your VE table is done. Then if you want to run a different AFR, you just adjust the DA table.

 

[slow1gentsi]

I just installed my sd 2 days ago and was having the same running rich issue to. But i got that fixed by actually telling link to log the gm IAT sensor and as soon as it started logging it it immediately fixed the problem. I found that if you don't tell link to log the sensor it goes to a base setting of 77 degrees as a default setting. so if your still having problems tell link to log the IAT sensor hope that helps oh and I confirmed the 77 degree default setting with the guys at ecmlink.com