DSMlink... Local (reputable) tuner thinks DSMlink is crap....?

[iwalton]

I've been emailing a local (reputable) tuner and I started talking to him about doing a tune via DSM link on my TSi. This is how it went, and i'm not sure what to think.

I know it's long, but i'm confused.

Me: I have an eprom ecu in the vehicle and I want to get it tuned. Can you guys tune it effectively without having ECMlink or DSMlink, or is it possible for you guys to tune without it?

Him: I highly DO NOT recommend ECMLINK or DSM LINK nor do I tune the factory ECU's too many parameters that need to be controlled for a good tune that none of this eprom changing ecu's can do

Me: Hmmm... I never would have thought that about the DSMlink.

Him: They don't get a good tune they just get something they call acceptable. Most guys don't know what a good tune is to most if you full throttle it out of the hole and it doesn't blow up thats good. A good tune gets reasonable mileage but most of all drive ability.

Him: I tune and setup 20-30 dsms a year. My first DSM I owned was purchased in oct 1990. I have a very high standard of what I call right or wrong methods. The biggest problem I have is actually convincing people that the Internet might be wrong. All the so called cheap methods work off a computer that is 22-23 years old. People spend thousands of dollars on wheels, engines, turbos. And then want to make their car run good off a couple hundred dollar solution. It just doesn't make sense to me. I now use the ViPec ecu until something better comes along to tune with. It's just the best way.


...Any ideas?

 

[96 420a-t]

I have seen huge numbers get put down with link. It retains the ability for closed loop cruise to retain fuel milage.

I call b.s.

 

[BurrowZ]

Apparently a proven system which has been on an 8.8@159 DSM isn't enough for your "reputable" tuner.

He sounds old. Just saying.

There is closed(cruise) and open(WOT) loop tuning, and that is what he is referring to. Both which are very adjustable via ECMLink.

For those that know what they are doing with Link, it is amazing. For those that don't and "full throttle it out of the hole doesn't blow up that's good", well it's a good deal on their copy of Link via the classfieds for the rest of us.

 

[94_TSi]

Is he trying to sell you a tuning solution ?

 

[iwalton]

Hmmm... I see what you guys are saying, but he's owned and operated his tuning shop (big operation) for over 30 years. He's older, for sure, but with everything else I've chatted with him about, he seems really solid. BTW, has anyone used the ViPec ecu and done better than cheaper modes of tuning?

Is he trying to sell you a tuning solution ?

Nope. We were just chatting and he ranted on this issue.

 

[BurrowZ]

Also,

Him: I highly DO NOT recommend ECMLINK or DSM LINK nor do I tune the factory ECU's too many parameters that need to be controlled for a good tune that none of this eprom changing ecu's can do

Please call him and have him list all "parameters" that need to be tweaked which cannot be done via Link.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Have him go to the site, and read link for yourself.

 

[marcmsj]

Sounds like he doesn't know what ECMlink is capable of. Of course some shops will be biased or prefer a tuning solution over another, but ECMlink is proven in the DSM community. It's not perfect but it's one of the best options when staying with the stock ECU.

 

[iwalton]

Have him go to the site, and read link for yourself.

I've read the site, have watched the tutorials, and have downloaded DSMlink, just to look through (haven't bought it yet), and I see how it works. I was just confused at this tuner's view of it.

 

[CrashGNX]

Well, Yes you probably can get a better tune with $2000-$4000 in a SAFC setup and a dyno to sit it on for a month. But from what ive seen of the ECMlink v3, they have done their homework and there really isnt much that cannot be done with it that a SAFC can do. As far as driveability, the ECMLink is great, its still simple enough for a novice to be able to tune and learn on without having to go to college for 4 years studying every aspect theory of the internal combustion engine. Yeah if your building a Pro touring race car and have a budget of a few million, yeah a SAFC is a no brainer but we still drive ours everyday and dont have $50,000 to throw at it. As the saying goes, speed is a question of money, how fast can you go?

 

[marcmsj]

It sounds like he's referring to keydiver replacement eprom chips and not ECMlink. Make sure he knows the difference.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

I don't understand what he's getting at. I've tuned two DSMs on link and it wasn't bad at all (before I blew the motor, but that's not links fault). And I got superb gas mileage and drivability.

So I don't know what he's getting at. I've never heard of ViPec, btw.

 

[iwalton]

I don't understand what he's getting at. I've tuned two DSMs on link and it wasn't bad at all (before I blew the motor, but that's not links fault). And I got superb gas mileage and drivability.

So I don't know what he's getting at. I've never heard of ViPec, btw.

Yup. I'm kinda confused about what he's thinking, because of all the great testimonials I've heard about DSMLink.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

I would stop doing business or any potential business with this person.

He does not seem to know what ECMLink is, or does.

 

[97gsxIA]

If this guy met Thom Dorris or Davey Mertz he'd probably change his mind within seconds. These guys are redefining genious

 

[WES_393]

It sounds like he's referring to keydiver replacement eprom chips and not ECMlink. Make sure he knows the difference.

Agreed. It seems like he is thinking of flashing chips or something along those lines. DSMLink is very capable and is way more than enough for most people.

 

[CrashGNX]

I looked at the Vipec website and they basically do the exact same thing just two different ways. Dsm link integrates their programing through the replacement of the EEPROM chip, therefore using the rest of the stock computer. Vipec replaces the entire computer board to produce the same result. Which is a fully programmable ECM. Again, he probably hasnt seen the capabilities of ECMLINK v3 yet since he uses Vipec instead.

 

[Tyeler18]

I looked at the Vipec website and they basically do the exact same thing just two different ways. Dsm link integrates their programing through the replacement of the EEPROM chip, therefore using the rest of the stock computer. Vipec replaces the entire computer board to produce the same result. Which is a fully programmable ECM. Again, he probably hasnt seen the capabilities of ECMLINK v3 yet since he uses Vipec instead.

ViPec is essentially megasquirt for those that don't know.

 

[99gst_racer]

The guy probably knows how to tune. But chances are that he's just not familiar with ECMlink at all, and he's probably more comfortable with something else. It's the mentality that "I love tuning with XXXX and everything else sucks".

 

[LiquidX]

Full standalone ECUs generally have more ability but most need all of that with the inflated price tag.

 

[bastarddsm]

Compared to something like a motec or the bosch stuff I work with, dsmlink is garbage. Really. The 1g ecu was designed almost 30 years ago.

Sure plenty of people out there go fast on what we use, but it doesn't mean there isn't better stuff out there.

 

[MY1GDSM]

Too me just sounds like they are selling a system not a tune... .

My question is how many of those cars they tune a Year are Really Just DSM's?

 

[CrashGNX]

Yeah, sure there is better but no where near the price tag. And most of us dont need a full Stand alone unit for what we are trying to do. 500-600HP is fine for the ECMLink, pushing 800+, yeah you probably want a stand alone. but if your pushing that much HP you should have the money to get one and the know-how to program it.

 

[Calan]

Compared to something like a motec or the bosch stuff I work with, dsmlink is garbage. Really.

By that logic, compared to any modern sports car costing 10x the price, DSM's are "garbage" also. (Although I would never call ECMLink "garbage"; it's actually quite outstanding considering what it allows you to do with 30 year-old ECUs for $500).

It's all relative to experience and money. People have made over 1000hp on ECMLink.

 

[jtmcinder]

Compared to something like a motec or the bosch stuff I work with, dsmlink is garbage.

Wow.

Just wow.