DSMlink... Local (reputable) tuner thinks DSMlink is crap....?

[jtmcinder]

These guys are redefining genious

Did they redefine it or just move it to a secret place in your dictionary? tee hee

 

[MY1GDSM]

I wonder with as much as "Dsmlink" is tossed around. how many people like this that don't tune on anything but one system even have an Idea what V3 ECMlink is... .

It's pretty simple why they are saying what they did. They only use That system... . and are a dealer for it.

There are plenty of tuners that won't tune on anything but what they know... Problem is that times change and sure 5-10 years ago or less for the most part this isn't to far of for the Truth depending on what your compairing or what platform you are talking about... . IMHO

But to say you can't states the obvious that they just don't know that it's not the case(anymore) or don't want to deal with something they don't know.

 

[Ludachris]

Yeah, sure there is better but no where near the price tag. And most of us dont need a full Stand alone unit for what we are trying to do. 500-600HP is fine for the ECMLink, pushing 800+, yeah you probably want a stand alone. but if your pushing that much HP you should have the money to get one and the know-how to program it.

Everyone has a different definition of "better". For most DSMers, user interface and simplicity is "better". The ability to retain much of the stock ECU programming is "better". Full stand alone systems might be "better" for expert tuners, but how many DSM owners will ever be an expert tuner? And how much "better" is the tune going to actually be? And in what way?

Stand alone systems make sense for certain people, but not 99% of DSMers. The term "better" is very subjective.

And it almost sounds like this guy is confusing DSMlink/ECMlink with an S-AFC.

 

[bastarddsm]

By that logic, compared to any modern sports car costing 10x the price, DSM's are "garbage" also. (Although I would never call ECMLink "garbage"; it's actually quite outstanding considering what it allows you to do with 30 year-old ECUs for $500).

It's all relative to experience and money. People have made over 1000hp on ECMLink.

Yeah, you can do great things with it, but there is better stuff out there. Seriously, you can't tell me an ems based on a processor designed in this century isn't a major upgrade. Aparantly things like individual cylinder timing, or individual cylinder fueling are of no benefit?

Wow.

Just wow.

What do you mean by that?

I've not said anything wrong. Any of the stock ecu based methods are nowhere near as good as what's available out there. Stock ecu based stuff works great for the cost and the skill required, but it does not mean its is better.

 

[viperlp01]

How many dsmers are going to tap each cylinder with an egt and monitor each exhaust temp to make individual cylinder adjustments? Dsmlink has come a long way. V3 is leaps and bounds better than the older versions. Hell, dsmlink allows for individual dead times that can allow some individual cylinder fuel adjustment. I love dsmlink. Works great for a ton of people on an everyday basis.

 

[99gst_racer]

"Garbage" is a little strong. Link is simply less capable than a standalone system, but that doesn't transform it into garbage. To each his own though. I don't know how anyone ever turned their car and went fast without individual cylinder control...

 

[JohnTSI]

For 99% of the guys with our cars they will never need anything more than what link can do. DSMlink and V3 are no longer in the same ballpark. V2.5 and earlier lacked a lot, but V3 is more than capable of not only handling what most DSM guys need but more. Driveability is not a problem for any real tuner with V3 either. Is motech a better platform when needed absolutely, but not many of you will ever need it.

 

[BoostedBeaver]

Yeah, you can do great things with it, but there is better stuff out there. Seriously, you can't tell me an ems based on a processor designed in this century isn't a major upgrade. Aparantly things like individual cylinder timing, or individual cylinder fueling are of no benefit?



What do you mean by that?

I've not said anything wrong. Any of the stock ecu based methods are nowhere near as good as what's available out there. Stock ecu based stuff works great for the cost and the skill required, but it does not mean its is better.

Sure something from the modern age will be able to do more, but when most of us do not reach the full capabilities of the 30 year old system it would just be overkill. I agree that newer technology gives the stand alone companies a better platform to start with, but what Tom and Dave have accomplished with this ECU is impressive.

When you start doing individual cylinder sensors it can get expensive fast. It could add up to the cost of link in a short time depending on the setup. In this case, a standalone (and its price tag) may be a necessity.

Robert

 

[nickk90]

DSMLink also keeps you OBD compliant. A lot of us do drive our cars on the street so that is a huge benefit. I bet a lot of other platforms would love to have a tuning solution like DSMLink. I know OBDII honda owners would.

 

[fran_drivertsi]

AEM EMS is the only thing that might be "better" than DSMLink. Costs 3x as much though. "Tuner" in the OP is a dipshit imo

 

[miguelmcv]

I'm not going to argue about which product is better, I stick with ECMLink v3 which is over kill for me.
But, tacking about what that guy (EXPERT) said.,,,, He only says that because luck of knowledge about Link, maybe he has so much knowledge about other products and will not recommend Link, Because if he does it, then he has to tune Link which he will not be able to get a great tune and going to look like a newby.

 

[jtmcinder]

What do you mean by that? ... I've not said anything wrong.

No, you didn't say anything that was demonstrably wrong, but you expressed an opinion that is far from typical. Calling ECMLink "garbage" because it isn't Motec is rather extreme. It will make me think twice from now on before I take any of your summary opinions seriously; at a minimum, I will have to ask to what you are comparing said "garbage" to make sure that it isn't another case like this one. It's like calling Koni Yellows garbage because they aren't Ohlins.

 

[Ludachris]

...Any of the stock ecu based methods are nowhere near as good as what's available out there. Stock ecu based stuff works great for the cost and the skill required, but it does not mean its is better.

Again, which is "better" is subjective and depends on your needs. Having full reign over the car's programming is ideal for some. If you want that, then a stand alone is better. If you're looking for a more intuitive, less expensive device that you can learn to use - one that utilizes parts of the OEM programming that you don't feel the need to mess with, that might be the "better" tool for some. Let's keep in mind we're talking about tuning 20 year old cars here... most of which need to remain OBD compliant for emissions purposes.

It's almost like buying Adobe Photoshop when all you're going to be doing is cropping and resizing photos. The end result will be very similar having used a program like Windows Paint. Another example would be welders - with the higher end Miller and Lincoln models you get way more control and is better for certain situations. But if you can achieve the same basic welds with a less expensive model that doesn't have all the options that have to be mastered, wouldn't that be considered the "better" option for the hobbyist?

A tuning device is just a tool. Stand alones are "better" in some ways for some people, solutions like ECMlink are "better" for the majority.

 

[snowborder714]

AEM EMS is the only thing that might be "better" than DSMLink.

There are a lot more systems that are better than ECMlink, but it takes much more knowledge, money, and time to set them up. And it also depends on what your definition of better is. For me, a Motec system would be awesome because of having a ton of inputs for various sensors and having everything logged in one unit. But for my current setup, link logs everything I need, and I don't have the money to buy all the sensors I'd ideally want.

 

[thewhiteone]

My local tuner actually has similar feelings, however with some differences.

in the tuning discussions ive had with him, after many years of experimenting on his own dsm, which is now in my possession, and building customer cars, he feels that link has its place as does an AEM unit. Long story short, link is awesome for people who a) want to learn to tune themselves and take care of their own car, and b) street set ups that might not have tons of power but where simplicity is important to the owner. The limitations of having it based on the original ECU are apparent, but v3 does eliminate many of those limitations. This is just what ive surmised from very technical discussions that are over my head.

I have an AEM standalone and its awesome. Unlimited amounts of tuning, provides data straight to my display, a great two-step launch control. But it really isnt for everyone. With the amount of track time my car gets and how much money was already into it it made the most sense for me, but it most assuredly wont for everyone.

Theres more than enough information on here and other sites to make the right decision.

 

[95talongirl]

I think what it comes down to is that the OP's tuner is probably not familiar with ECMLink and therefore doesn't want anything to do with it. It's much easier to whip out various tunes on different cars when they are running a system you are familiar with. Cuts out the time spent to figure out the program's setup, layout and functions.

I have heard from some people that the lack of a 3-d graph kinda sucks, but ECMLink is plenty great for those of us who just want a mildly built street car. For those who have pushed the envelope and ran single digit passes on Link, then more power to them!

Not going to fault the guy in the OP, he probably does know how to tune; but only on certain platforms.

 

[crazytsiawd]

First of all, I know who you're talking about, hes a great tuner and a great guy he also knows his shit when it comes to dsm's, the reason why he suggest's vipec over dsmlink, is he can get a hell of a better tune out of vipec then dsmlink, remember hes been tuning cars at his shop for over 23 years.

As for most of the people here saying or thinking ecmlink is better then a stand alone, come on get real, you get what you pay for, its a Glorified piggyback ffs.

 

[Ludachris]

First of all, I know who you're talking about, hes a great tuner and a great guy he also knows his shit when it comes to dsm's, the reason why he suggest's vipec over dsmlink, is he can get a hell of a better tune out of vipec then dsmlink, remember hes been tuning cars at his shop for over 23 years.

As for most of the people here saying or thinking ecmlink is better then a stand alone, come on get real, you get what you pay for, its a Glorified piggyback ffs.

Nobody is saying ECMlink is a better tuning solution overall compared to stand alones. The argument being made is that it is the better choice for most DSMers due to their needs, cost, and usability. A stand alone is overkill for most DSMers, doesn't provide much more benefit in the tune, has a steep learning curve, usually requires a pro to tune, and makes the car impossible to get emissions tested legally. Stand alones are great for race cars, but they have inherent issues that the "glorified piggyback" solves nicely. Most who understand what ECMlink is and what it can do wouldn't call it a piggyback. It's somewhere in between a piggyback and a stand alone.

Not necessarily a better tuning tool, but a better choice for 99% of DSMers. And let's step back a minute here and keep this all in perspective - there's a huge difference between saying a stand alone is better than ECMlink and calling ECMlink garbage. As Jtoby said, that's like calling Konis garbage because they're not Ohlins. People are arguing more against the idea that it's garbage, not that it's better than a stand alone.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

First of all, I know who you're talking about, hes a great tuner and a great guy he also knows his shit when it comes to dsm's, the reason
why he suggest's vipec over dsmlink, is he can get a hell of a better tune out of vipec then dsmlink, remember hes been tuning cars at his shop for over 23 years.

As for most of the people here saying or thinking ecmlink is better then a stand alone, come on get real, you get what you pay for, its a Glorified piggyback ffs.

You're absolutely wrong and that is misinformation.

Piggybacks interrupt and modified signals going to and from the ECU; most commonly airflow, injector pulse width and oxygen sensor. Some will add other inputs/ouputs to help the tuner, but the over principal is the same. Interrupt and alter a signal. Things like radiator fan temp cut on/off, oil pressure, etc. are generally not altered and in some cases the signal never pass through the piggyback controller.

Standalones ARE the ECU it does not interrupt, but it does alter them based on computational analysis. Inputs like fan cut on/off are accept and manipulated by the standalone. The functions of the ECU are not passed to a higher computing device.

By this very definition, DSMLink is a standalone fuel controller. It does not interrupt a signal and all calculations are performed by the device itself. The reason people have a hard time labeling DSMLink as a standalone is because it reuses some of the factory ECU calculations and it rides on the existing hardware, but DSMLink is, in fact, a standalone fuel controller.

I understand your allegiance to this tuner and after reading up on the ViPec it’s not a bad device at all. However it is NOT geared towards DSMs. It has a setup for EVO 1-3, but it is not plug and play and adjustments need to be made in order to for it to work coming out the box. DSMLink is 100% plug and play with the factory configuration where ViPec is not. The fact that this tuner is trashing DSMLink is a sign of a stubborn person stuck in his ways with a closed mind. As mentioned many times, DSMLink is the tuner that most likely fits 99% of the DSM population. And the work/cost/price vs. funcationality comparing DSMLink to ViPec, DSMLink is far superior. The simple fact that you side with the tuner shows that you are, too, stuck in your ways.

 

[ramsack]

DSMLink is not a standalone nor is it a piggyback. If you want to lump it into those two things, it would be closer to a standalone. It's fine for what most people need. People with wilder imaginations who want to squeeze out every bit of power and driveability at every point of the RPM and throttle range should still go with a standalone. I just don't like their tiered pricing system for identical pieces of hardware, and on that basis of their business model, I would never recommend them.

 

[Hal]

he can get a hell of a better tune out of vipec then dsmlink

Bullshit

He can get a better closed loop tune than the factory ECU from an aftermarket device where he has to tune all of the possible combinations?

WOT, max power maybe... but not closed loop.

Anyone who can't get a great closed loop tune with 'link doesn't know what they are doing.

As far as open loop, it's been used to make 1000+ on several cars and god knows how many north of 750.

The O/P needs to take his business else where.

Hal

 

[laser90]

I've had a similar experience with a local shop (operating for 15+ years). While discussing my set-up he asked what I would be tuning with and I replied ECMlink. He gave me a funny look and I explained exactly what it was, the first thing out his mouth was " It's no good AEM is better". I knew pretty much instantly that the AEM EMS is his safe zone. That's what he knows and what he can guarantee quality tunes with.

 

[SpoolinTalonAWD]

For those of us that want a street car that passes emissions, but want 400hp+ DSMlink is the shiznit. And of course, people are making 600HP or even more everyday
For the guys that want an 800hp 50psi race car, why wouldnt you run an AEM, HALTECH, ect???

 

[Hal]

For the guys that want an 800hp 50psi race car, why wouldnt you run an AEM, HALTECH, ect???

Why would you when you can do it with ECMLink?

 

[Calan]

Why would you when you can do it with ECMLink?

Because then they can say "Yeah but.... my car has a $$$$$$ standalone in it"

Some of the comments in this thread are borderline retarded at best.