DSM Graveyard Pistons Rod Combo

[Boug]

Disclaimer: I've done the search efforts to find specifically what I'm looking for without success.

My goals are 450-500whp on E85 @ 30PSI. I spend all of my time on the street/drag strip.

Unlike what I did when I had my EVO8 (pushing things beyond the point of safety to ultimately throw a rod), I want to do things right the first time now that I have a 1G DSM as it relates to the shortblock.

I've been doing a lot of reading about a suitable set of pistons/rods for my build (some on the high end and some on the low end). I've been searching through the classified ads here on Tuners and came across a brand new set of pistons/rods manufactured @ DSM Graveyard. The price (in my opinion) is nearly too good to be true.

My question(s) are:

a. Based on my stated goals, will these pistons/rods suffice?

b. What set should I get out of the three listed on the DSM Graveyard site?

1. DSM Graveyard - Your #1 Source for DSM Parts!

2. DSM Graveyard - Your #1 Source for DSM Parts!

3. DSM Graveyard - Your #1 Source for DSM Parts!

 

[Tanro]

I would go with OEM out of those choices.

Wiseco forged pistons might be more up your alley. Honestly 350-375 isnt too much of a stretch on stock on internals.

400 is pushing it hard.

Anything past 400 I would want forged pistons, forged rods, arp mains, rod bolts, and head studs, MLS HG, and some very good bearings,

That is just bottom end stuff. If you wanna rev high your also gonna need a built head.

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

Remember 450-500whp is going to be over 600hp on the internals. For your goal an Eagle/Wiseco setup would be ideal. That coupled with some ARP hardware will help with everything you got going already. I have done and seen people run 1g rods with 2g pistons well into the high 400 - low 500hp range but the longevity just isn't there. This will be your best bet to do it once and right.

 

[Boug]

I would go with OEM out of those choices. Wiseco forged pistons might be more up your alley. Honestly 350-375 isnt too much of a stretch on stock on internals. 400 is pushing it hard. Anything past 400 I would want forged pistons, forged rods, arp mains, rod bolts, and head studs, MLS HG, and some very good bearings. That is just bottom end stuff. If you wanna rev high your also gonna need a built head.

Remember 450-500whp is going to be over 600hp on the internals. For your goal an Eagle/Wiseco setup would be ideal. That coupled with some ARP hardware will help with everything you got going already. I have done and seen people run 1g rods with 2g pistons well into the high 400 - low 500hp range but the longevity just isn't there. This will be your best bet to do it once and right.

This is all truly awesome and very helpful information. Yes "doing things right the first time" is my motto now that I'm in the DSM scene. My EVO8 (on stock internals) was tuned on the razor's edge and it cost me dearly. I've seen the Eagle/Wiseco set-ups on a lot of nicely built DSMs so I know (by posted testimonies) that it's reputation is well spoken of. For the built head aspect of things, I already have that taken care of. Until I get all of the details finalized and lined up, I'll roll the streets with a conservative 325whp or so until it's time for my "kill mode" tune.

 

[Tanro]

325-370 is enough completely and utterly destroy almost anything you roll up on.

I did have a guy try and race me in his viper once.

Dumbass... Of course your 500 horse beer can will spank me.

 

[viperlp01]

But it won't spank me.... pm sent to OP

 

[Boug]

325-370 is enough completely and utterly destroy almost anything you roll up on.

This is very promising and very nice to know. I just hate getting roasted when my car isn't fully up and running.

pm sent to OP

Replied back with questions.

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

325-370 is enough completely and utterly destroy almost anything you roll up on.

I did have a guy try and race me in his viper once.

Dumbass... Of course your 500 horse beer can will spank me.

Not here. Most every EVO, WRX and SRT4 are rolling at least 400whp. Lots of nice turbo Honda's and sleeper muscle cars here. I was a R-34 talking crap at a stoplight to a stock looking "V-6" Camaro, only to have the Camaro lift the front tires through the stoplight and check out.

 

[viperlp01]

"stock appearing v6 camaro lifting the front tire of the ground" I call bs.. If any car is lifting the front tires of the ground they have winkle walls

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

"stock appearing v6 camaro lifting the front tire of the ground" I call bs.. If any car is lifting the front tires of the ground they have winkle walls

Just a 345 drag radial. He wasn't pulling them 3' off the ground but there was about a 6' gap under the tires.

 

[Tanro]

350+ will dust about any stock v-8 and 99% of the 240s, hondas, neons, saturns, cobalts etc you see on the street. Jus sayin.

I would be willing to put money on the table even against V-8s with bolt ons.

I would have to guess it depends on the local car scene but there just aren't many people where I live that are into the street scene, its all either unstreetable drag cars or dumb punks with no idea that there cold air intake adds 4 horse power and not 40.

 

[Boug]

350+ will dust about any stock v-8 and 99% of the 240s, hondas, neons, saturns, cobalts etc you see on the street. Jus sayin. I would be willing to put money on the table even against V-8s with bolt ons. I would have to guess it depends on the local car scene but there just aren't many people where I live that are into the street scene, its all either unstreetable drag cars or dumb punks with no idea that there cold air intake adds 4 horse power and not 40.

There is a strong street scene here in Sierra Vista full of domestics, imports, exotics, etc. You always have to be on your A-game - PERIOD.

 

[donniekak]

350+ will dust about any stock v-8 and 99% of the 240s, hondas, neons, saturns, cobalts etc you see on the street. Jus sayin.

I would be willing to put money on the table even against V-8s with bolt ons.

I would have to guess it depends on the local car scene but there just aren't many people where I live that are into the street scene, its all either unstreetable drag cars or dumb punks with no idea that there cold air intake adds 4 horse power and not 40.

My car, lightened to 2900lbs, with the setup in my profile killed everything i ran into on the street, including boosted mustangs, and bolton z06's. Anything with enough power to pull me doesn't have the traction of 4 drag radials like i do.

There is a strong street scene here in Sierra Vista full of domestics, imports, exotics, etc. You always have to be on your A-game - PERIOD.

I've seen plenty of A-games, 50ft behind me doing burnouts.

 

[rx7ttlm]

Build an engine with a nice fresh crank, acl main /rod bearings, Ross pistons, and eagle rods. Balance the assembly and your good. It will take a bit of detonation AND if you decide to go big in the power department it will take over 600hp. If you outgrow your head porting/ turbo, unbolt them and slap on some better flowing pieces. I built a 2.0 ross / eagle shortblock, let my ex set the timing and she detonated the shit out of the engine (think audible) and it still held up. That was about 375hp. If you overbuild you will be much more happy with what you end up with. Forged pistons only really have two down sides, oil consumption (due to the slightly larger ptw clearance) but its barely noticable), and cost.

I mean don't get me wrong. My next build might be a stock rod and evo 9 piston setup. But that's just cause I am broke and want a short block ready for when I blow up the stock 170k mile engine in my 1g.

 

[Boug]

Build an engine with a nice fresh crank, acl main /rod bearings, Ross pistons, and eagle rods. Balance the assembly and your good. It will take a bit of detonation AND if you decide to go big in the power department it will take over 600hp. If you outgrow your head porting/ turbo, unbolt them and slap on some better flowing pieces. I built a 2.0 ross / eagle shortblock, let my ex set the timing and she detonated the shit out of the engine (think audible) and it still held up. That was about 375hp. If you overbuild you will be much more happy with what you end up with. Forged pistons only really have two down sides, oil consumption (due to the slightly larger ptw clearance) but its barely noticable), and cost.

I mean don't get me wrong. My next build might be a stock rod and evo 9 piston setup. But that's just cause I am broke and want a short block ready for when I blow up the stock 170k mile engine in my 1g.

Yes sir! I absolutely 100% understand what you're saying. This is my mindset as my current engine has over 188xxx miles on it and I'm sure there are hidden "issues" with it that any amount of power will surely expose. "Right The First Time" is my banner.

 

[dsm-onster]

I'm confused. Your stock 6bolt motor has seen your goal (some WITH STOCK HEAdBOLTS) so frequently it's too difficult to count. What is your reason to build? A half decent tune is far less time consuming, takes alot less energy, and far less cash than rebuilding.

 

[Tanro]

Reliability?

 

[donniekak]

Reliability?

I've run at least 6 different stock rod/piston 6-bolts well into the 30 psi range, and have never blown one.

 

[Boug]

I'm confused. Your stock 6bolt motor has seen your goal (some WITH STOCK HEAdBOLTS) so frequently it's too difficult to count. What is your reason to build? A half decent tune is far less time consuming, takes alot less energy, and far less cash than rebuilding.

I bought the car about three months ago and it came with 188xxx miles on it. I immediately started buying parts for the car and now it's time to chose the correct turbo for the goals I have in mind (450-500whp) and the first thing I know is a must is a stronger bottom end. I'm not sure what the car/engine condition is other than the fact of the high mileage. I'm sorry but a half decent tune doesn't work for me as my previously-held mentality was just that and it cost me dearly in the end.

I've run at least 6 different stock rod/piston 6-bolts well into the 30 psi range, and have never blown one.

Would you say that this was due to a nice tune or simply dodging the bullet?

I guess by simply knowing what the Graveyard rods and pistons are each rated at for crank power would be very helpful as well.

 

[GORBS88]

I bought the car about three months ago and it came with 188xxx miles on it. I immediately started buying parts for the car and now it's time to chose the correct turbo for the goals I have in mind (450-500whp) and the first thing I know is a must is a stronger bottom end. I'm not sure what the car/engine condition is other than the fact of the high mileage. I'm sorry but a half decent tune doesn't work for me as my previously-held mentality was just that and it cost me dearly in the end.



Would you say that this was due to a nice tune or simply dodging the bullet?

I guess by simply knowing what the Graveyard rods and pistons are each rated at for crank power would be very helpful as well.

Dynoed 48x on a mustang dyno and as many say thats 550 on a dynojet TWO years ago!! Driving the wheels off it 30+ Psi on a STOCK high mileage 6bolt.
I don't see why guys get so excited about BUILDING there motors when they're KNOWHERE near what the motor can handle.
I haven't dodged ANY bullets, just a good tune and sensible driving.

BTW there are MANY people making the power of your goals on stock internals.

325whp conservative tune seems abit crazy? IF you said 425 whp conservative "safe" tune then mabe...

 

[Tanro]

I would just rather play it safe than sorry. Half the people on this site complain about there dsm being "down" my car has never been on jackstands longer than an afternoon because I am not interested in pushing it to the braking point.

 

[JacksonAuto]

A well built shortblock will be more reliable and make more power. Period. Stock rods/pistons are good to around 400whp with a competent tuner on the keyboard. Stock internals and 500+ is either fluffed up dyno numbers or a hand grenade.

a. Based on my stated goals, will these pistons/rods suffice?

NO.

 

[dsm-onster]

There are guys trapping +130mph with close to stock weight using the stock 6bolt and running around with them daily for years. There's no fluff with MPH/weight results. Either the pins arn't pulled; or many, many grenades are duds

 

[Boug]

I don't see why guys get so excited about BUILDING there motors when they're NO WHERE near what the motor can handle. BTW there are MANY people making the power of your goals on stock internals. 325whp conservative tune seems abit crazy? IF you said 425 whp conservative "safe" tune then mabe...

I'm not excited about building my engine in the sense of the "oooh weee" factor. What's more important to me is that I have my goals in mind (500whp) and want to make sure that the engine is capable of handling the power/torque. I want to do this without going overboard price-wise on aftermarket pistons/rods and wanted to gauge the thoughts of fellow DSM'ers that have been in the game far longer than I have.

I would just rather play it safe than sorry. Half the people on this site complain about there dsm being "down" my car has never been on jackstands longer than an afternoon because I am not interested in pushing it to the braking point.

My EVO was never down until I threw the rod and then shortly after that, she was vandalized and considered a total loss. I have read about guys consistently stating that they are down a car. I want to be able to enjoy my DSM for what it was intended for - spirited driving.

A well built shortblock will be more reliable and make more power. Period. Stock rods/pistons are good to around 400whp with a competent tuner on the keyboard. Stock internals and 500+ is either fluffed up dyno numbers or a hand grenade.

Thanks, sir!

Either the pins arn't pulled; or many, many grenades are duds

For the Army guy in me that's been to Iraq four times, this was very funny.

 

[dsm-onster]

I fail to understand why the dsmgraveyard 6bolt rebuild is on the list as an alternative to insure reliability. You have the same rods/pistons in your car right now. Infact the rods in question probably have had more miles/abuse than yours. Freshen your up for 1/4 the cost if you're worried. Actually, just do a compression/leakdown test to see if your motor is even weak.

Why rebuild just to swap in arp rod bolts. That's the only upgrade that combination has. Not worth it. Too many get the job done reliabily with the stock 6bolt rod bolts. They are HUGE compared to 7bolt rod bolts. That option is for those who have spun a rod bearing in their 6bolt.