cylinder head

[HTG]

hey guys, got a turbo setup on my 420A and am keeping it at 8psi or below on my stock internals. i have a new rebuilt, resurfaced head with a nice valve job i wanna put on. i was wondering if i had this new head ported out, would this allow me to push my boost up anymore? if so how much on stock internals with a ported head?

thanks for any responses

anyone?

 

[PhilipMc]

No sorry cams have nothing to do with the amount of boost u can run. If you want more boost do forged pistons, crankshaft (I would recommend a stroker crankshaft) and h beam connecting rods also I would recommend a stronger head gasket and if you really wanna go crazy and run a lot of boost get a stronger engine block.

And i meant head not cams sorry.

 

[mnelsen]

if i were you i wouldnt waste my time porting it yet and id get crank, pistons, and rods push to maybe 10 pounds, then do the head.you dont want to fry your valves

 

[HTG]

oh alright guys, gotchaa. preciate the info! i just wanted to know if it'd be worth it to port it a lil before i slap it on. but guess not. haha thanks

 

[Josh97eclipse]

When posting please use proper English and not abbreviation's. And capitalize I.

 

[urmomsaniceguy]

These forums have rules and guidlines. Please follow them. If you choose not to, I'm sure the moderators will have no problem shutting the thread and limiting your post. Thanks.

 

[necrotopsy]

to answer the OP's question:

the limit to your boost is dictated by your bottom end.
the top end is designed amazing. why? because Lotus (yes the car company Lotus) is the company who made it.

the 26 psi 420a i had, was an almost stock top end. had revised lifters/rockers, but that's it. stock cams, stock valves etc. etc.
still made over 400 whp. the top end on the 420a is A+

 

[bullettdsm]

Wow, what a bunch of "I don't know what I'm talking about" replies. Get a "stronger engine block"? You'll "fry your valves" with a head port?

Op, go with this reply;

to answer the OP's question:

the limit to your boost is dictated by your bottom end.
the top end is designed amazing. why? because Lotus (yes the car company Lotus) is the company who made it.

the 26 psi 420a i had, was an almost stock top end. had revised lifters/rockers, but that's it. stock cams, stock valves etc. etc.
still made over 400 whp. the top end on the 420a is A+

Though personally, I would go with a light port while the head was out, its not a necessary item.

MB

 

[Shake_Zulla]

Wow, what a bunch of "I don't know what I'm talking about" replies. Get a "stronger engine block"? You'll "fry your valves" with a head port?

MB

I have been seeing a lot more neg rep... Is that you Mark

Just to give my two cents... A lot of stuff depends on your goals and what you want to do with the car, take a look at these power stages to get a better idea of what you want...
2GNT.com - Power_Stages
I don't like tearing my engine apart multiple times so I try to get everything done in one swoop. I would suggest looking at doing some lifter and rocker upgrades while you have everything apart in addition to the other quality posts suggestions. Cams are an upgrade that doesn't require a ton of work to do after the fact so I wouldn't worry about that yet. Good luck

 

[mnelsen]

Wow, what a bunch of "I don't know what I'm talking about" replies. Get a "stronger engine block"? You'll "fry your valves" with a head port?

Op, go with this reply;



Though personally, I would go with a light port while the head was out, its not a necessary item.

MB

Maybe you should learn how to read english before you post... No one said porting the head will fry his valves. I meant he might as well build the bottom end a little, ie pistons, rods, crank, before he turns up the boost. And he might want to get some beehive valve springs, and maybe titanium valves or whatever. It would last a lot longer with just a little more money put into it. It's worth it to me.

 

[bryanwheat]

Maybe you should learn how to read english before you post... No one said porting the head will fry his valves. I meant he might as well build the bottom end a little, ie pistons, rods, crank, before he turns up the boost. And he might want to get some beehive valve springs, and maybe titanium valves or whatever. It would last a lot longer with just a little more money put into it. It's worth it to me.

No need for a titanium valve. Valves are not a problem with these cars, the stock valves will handle as much power as you want to make.

 

[Shake_Zulla]

Maybe you should learn how to read english before you post... No one said porting the head will fry his valves. I meant he might as well build the bottom end a little, ie pistons, rods, crank, before he turns up the boost. And he might want to get some beehive valve springs, and maybe titanium valves or whatever. It would last a lot longer with just a little more money put into it. It's worth it to me.

Well thought I would comment on this post before I gets deleated...

Way to go bud, calling out a wiseman that has the fastest 420n/a out there and knows more about the 420a engine then then engineers that designed it. I think he was commenting more on the fact that nothing talked about in this thread will "fry" valves, but you probably know this from all the 420a blocks you have built. By the way stock crank is good to go as long as its in good condition.

Advice to OP... Listen to the people whos rep points are in the green.
Advice to people with red rep points... Shut up, keep your head down, and give advice on your own model.

 

[stuckwithgsx]

Well I don't see any mod list on OP's profile :/

Porting and polishing your head is a good idea. A really good idea. Just make sure you have everything to support it. Tuning and datalogging.

Obviously the answer to the question is no. Having the head ported and polished, oversized valves, etc... will not safely allow you to raise boost on any application. It will however help power curves, and rpm increases. So yes, IMO if you have the head off, if you have the money, if you have the time, and if you truly want to build an amazing car and go 'all out' with it, then yes do it.

There will probably be less headache not porting the head, but then again it would be less headache to start boosting with forged internals. It's OP's call on this to decide how far he wants to go with the build, and how much effort he's willing to put into it as well.

 

[all_motor_mike]

Some of the responces in this thread are hilarious..... Titanium valves..... Beehive springs......... Stronger block......... " I recommend a stronger crank". Lots of awesome there. My advice..... If u want to make more power per lb of boost then port the head and throw cams in it while its apart. Assuming u have the money. The more power u make naturally aspirated (ie, the more efficient ## engine is) the more power u will make once its boosted. Example..... on a built motor @ say 10lbs of boost u could make 300whp, now if u were to do that with a stock motor u would probably have to push about 15-16 lbs to get the same power. While at the same time putting more load and stress on it lowering its overall life span. A good tune is also a must for maximum efficiency. Oh and I know a really good head porter if u wanna go that route


Mike

 

[bullettdsm]

Some of the responces in this thread are hilarious..... Titanium valves..... Beehive springs......... Stronger block......... " I recommend a stronger crank". Lots of awesome there.

Micheal, you have no idea. As Jared has pointed out, my patience is just wearing thin with these keyboard jockeys who scan information then attempt to regurgitate it. I use the neg rep system very sparingly, but man, they are just forcing me to use it.

One guy (yes that's ONLY ONE!) that we know of (who's name I forget), was breaking cranks (due to rpm resonance not horsepower level) and these jockeys are telling the OP to get a stronger crank!!

Yeah, I've been asking Kevin for beehive springs for the longest time (as in kiggly). But I was only looking for them because I was running 8-10k rpms in my power range. And he wants the OP to go out and spend gobs of cash (because I don't know who would have them. If anybody, it would be DCR. And that ain't gonna be cheap), so this guy could get no palpable measure of gain from them.

Of course, don't forget the need for titanium valves! Because he needs to spend all that extra cash for no palpable gain in power or longevity.

Bah, sorry OP, its my bad on my impatience with this kind of thing. Sorry for mucking up your thread. Just remember that more money does not always need to be spent.

MB

 

[PhilipMc]

No sorry cams have nothing to do with the amount of boost u can run. If you want more boost do forged pistons, crankshaft (I would recommend a stroker crankshaft) and h beam connecting rods also I would recommend a stronger head gasket and if you really wanna go crazy and run a lot of boost get a stronger engine block.

And i meant head not cams sorry.

I don't understand how someone who doesn't care about turbo can say stuff about turbo. I have been doing my research on this subject for a long time and it was a suggestion as it says in my quote "if you really wanna go crazy and run a lot of boost get a stronger engine block" Id like to see someone run 30psi boost on a stock engine block and see how long it lasts.

 

[Shake_Zulla]

I don't understand how someone who doesn't care about turbo can say stuff about turbo. I have been doing my research on this subject for a long time and it was a suggestion as it says in my quote "if you really wanna go crazy and run a lot of boost get a stronger engine block" Id like to see someone run 30psi boost on a stock engine block and see how long it lasts.

I think most of the attention was focused on the 1g guy, though, you probably got mixed up in it more than you deserved to man. You have to be more specific than "a stronger block" though. After all forged pistons and rods are about all that is needed short-block wise to run more boost. Of course making sure everything is in good condition would be important too. If I disregarded all my 420a knowledge (it isn't that much ) and someone told me to get a stronger block I would be under the impression that I needed to find a closed deck replacement block and waste a bunch of time looking for something that doesn't exist. Try to be a little bit more specific and the mods will be more understanding... at least I think. Also Mark may not prefer a turbo engine but he has had 4g63's in the past and he knows quite a bit about them. Also with how long he's been around this game he knows a lot about 420a's and slapping turbos on them to the point where when I will get stuck I will probably send him a pm. Best thing to do if you think you are wronged is to send him a calm and polite pm instead of calling him out on the public threads...

 

[necrotopsy]

I don't understand how someone who doesn't care about turbo can say stuff about turbo. I have been doing my research on this subject for a long time and it was a suggestion as it says in my quote "if you really wanna go crazy and run a lot of boost get a stronger engine block" Id like to see someone run 30psi boost on a stock engine block and see how long it lasts.

Ran 26 psi on a t04e .50 trim ( 44lbs min flow rate) on stock block into 40k miles.
8.8:1 pistions, forged internals, good tune, water injection, massive IC.
and it was bored 20 over.

and i was going to upgrade to a GT35R and run 30psi but my plans changed when i sold it.

it's an iron block dude. It's solid.

 

[bryanwheat]

I don't understand how someone who doesn't care about turbo can say stuff about turbo. I have been doing my research on this subject for a long time and it was a suggestion as it says in my quote "if you really wanna go crazy and run a lot of boost get a stronger engine block" Id like to see someone run 30psi boost on a stock engine block and see how long it lasts.

You do realize that there is no aftermarket block for this application. The limits of the stock block are far higher than you could even imagine. There is no need for a different block or crank. The rods and pistons are the only thing that needs to be upgraded to make big power.

 

[bullettdsm]

You do realize that there is no aftermarket block for this application. The limits of the stock block are far higher than you could even imagine. There is no need for a different block or crank. The rods and pistons are the only thing that needs to be upgraded to make big power.

^^This.

And I have personally run 30lbs (ok, it was actually 29lbs ) on a BW 366 (567whp) with a 420a. 10.5 comp with a stock block and stock crank (as a matter of fact, still have the lower end), no problems. There are a good number of Neon guys who have run 30+lbs, on various different turbo's with no problems (the Neon block is the EXACT same block. Its the head that is different).

As stated, the block and crank are not the limiting factors.

MB

 

[Fotowntalon]

Whats all this "factory crank is good" BS, get a hold of me I can get you a forged crank! ok ok, I am just trying to make a sale, but I really can =). In all honesty though, isn't DSM-Zero(aka 420a record holder) on a stock crank?

 

[bullettdsm]

Whats all this "factory crank is good" BS, get a hold of me I can get you a forged crank! ok ok, I am just trying to make a sale, but I really can =).

Whore

In all honesty though, isn't DSM-Zero(aka 420a record holder) on a stock crank?

Yup, last I knew. Along with a stock block Pushing over 700 to the wheels (I can't remember the last number he told me). Though he did O-ring the head (or block). But that's for the connection of the head to the block.

MB

 

[95eclipsers-t]

And I have personally run 30lbs (ok, it was actually 29lbs ) on a BW 366 (567whp) with a 420a. 10.5 comp with a stock block and stock crank (as a matter of fact, still have the lower end), no problems. There are a good number of Neon guys who have run 30+lbs, on various different turbo's with no problems (the Neon block is the EXACT same block. Its the head that is different).

As stated, the block and crank are not the limiting factors.

MB




u got that block still sorry i wouldnt mind it.... just sayin hahaha

 

[CODE4]

also I would recommend a stronger head gasket and if you really wanna go crazy and run a lot of boost get a stronger engine block.

Another statement with unfounded facts behind it. Factory MLS gaskets are fantastic and have proven to hold up to 30 lbs.

Stronger engine block...

 

[95eclipsers-t]

i know im the new one in this thread and bein really random but it is funny readin all this... just sayin

oh i forgot.... stronger engine block new inside joke... yessss

but question from me, sorry. thread jack kinda.... if the head and crank and headgasket is so good y does anyone even replace em??? i mean i know replace rods, pistons etc. but y that (besides extreme big a$$ cams