ECMlink Critique My Tune

[TalonSpeed]

Two logs are attached. Idle and WOT 1-3rd gear. The idle log looks good from what I can tell. Engine is 2.3, 264cams, JMF street manifold, E16g, 720cc. Fuel pressure verified and 4 bar map installed.

The WOT pulls is where I am confused. Target AFR is 11.3 at full boost. Logged AFR from WB shows 10.2 - 10.4 steady. This makes me think I need to adjust my maf comp slides around those hertz to a lower number. Make the computer think less air is coming in so it injects less fuel, but my boostest and logged boost dont line up. Boostest is 2.5-3psi lower than logged boost, which makes me think I should move the maf comp sliders up, more air in makes the computer estimate higher boost levels.

Which is correct?

Just so everyone knows, the WOT log is with a 2 step antilag launch. Antilag retards the timing alot and it comes back in slow. Too slow I think

 

[TalonSpeed]

AFR-WB is there. U will probably have to open it if it is not named the exactly the same as yours.

 

[T is for TURBO]

AirflowPerRev is a bit high. For a 2.3 I'd shoot for .28-.29
Also, shoot for a leaner mixture. 11:1 is what I like

 

[boost97gst]

Well, from what i can tell your idle is perfect.
The WOT log looks decent, im guessing thats RICH knock but i cnat see IAT's so i cant rule that out either. Lean 'er out by doing exactly what you said: Drop the sliders in the affected hz areas. Get your afrest to match actual afr and ## golden. Dont worry, IMO, about boostest and actual lining up

AirflowPerRev is a bit high. For a 2.3 I'd shoot for .28-.29
Also, shoot for a leaner mixture. 11:1 is what I like

He's targeting 11.3(reference afrest and also look at DA table)

.34 is too high?? For a 2.3L with CAMS?......

IMO, your idle is perfect. I wouldnt try and lower the airflow/rev one bit. Its rock solid


Double edit: A dejon sidemount? ok, ok, now im beginning to see what may be going on here: Your intake temps(at maf) are reading extremely high. Like around 160*(??wtf). Thats a whole bunch of really hot air that gets even hotter through the compressor then its fed not through a big fmic, but through a smic. Now that better be one hell of a SMIC to dissipate that much heat dude. Otherwise your IATs are gonna skyrocket and you will knock no matter what. You need to do some heat wrap or cold air ducting or maybe the maf is outta whack temp wise. Its accurate everywhere else though so i dont think its the maf.

oh, and get your coolant temps under control: 229 at the end of the pull is too hot for me. No bueno, champ

 

[T is for TURBO]

Cams don't affect AirflowPerRev too much at idle. Especially 264s

 

[boost97gst]

Well, then drop it down. Easy. Idle is the furthest thing from his problems though. But i just read what you read and see the equation for finding airflow/rev that was referenced. I see what ya mean. Well, mines out of whack too then. Oh well, it effects almost nothing afaik

 

[T is for TURBO]

Well, then drop it down. Easy. Idle is the furthest thing from his problems though. But i just read what you read and see the equation for finding airflow/rev that was referenced. I see what ya mean. Well, mines out of whack too then. Oh well, it effects almost nothing afaik

Correct, it shouldn't affect it too much. As long as combinedFt is near zero and your idle is smooth, all should be good. Mine would always had a slight miss when my combinedFt was zero and airflowperrev was higher. I think it really depends on how your injectors react with the amount of deadline given

 

[TalonSpeed]

Its a 2.3 with 264 cams and automatic transmission. E16g on a denjon upgraded sidemount, so I think the knock is real. It knocks worse when heat soaked.

 

[snowborder714]

The WOT pulls is where I am confused. Target AFR is 11.3 at full boost. Logged AFR from WB shows 10.2 - 10.4 steady. This makes me think I need to adjust my maf comp slides around those hertz to a lower number. Make the computer think less air is coming in so it injects less fuel, but my boostest and logged boost dont line up. Boostest is 2.5-3psi lower than logged boost, which makes me think I should move the maf comp sliders up, more air in makes the computer estimate higher boost levels.

Which is correct?

Compare wideband and AFRatioEst values at WOT. This will show you how far off you are.

Use the WBFactor value at the designated MAF Hz levels in the MAF Comp tab to adjust the airflow reading (i.e. if negative, move slider down via the amount shown). This will then line up your wideband and AFRatioEst lines and you'll be much better off.

 

[boost97gst]

Oh, the knock IS real. No question. I was just wondering if its heat knock or rich knock. A 16g would probably heat soak a sidemount pretty quick. See, the smaller the turbo the harder you push it the higher the charge temps will get. You arent really nailing it at 20psi but still that sidemount....... If i were you
#1L Get the mafcomps in line so you get the target afr.
#2: Still knocking? Get an IAT sensor welded in(youre going to need it for SD anyway if you switch). If those IATs start taking off, which i suspect they are then youve found problem.
#3: Do something about your cooling situation. Youre running too hot dude. I run a 5858 yesterday at 35psi, mafs near zero, showing 52lbs min and at the end of my pull the temp went from 203 to like 209.
In 100* weather idling with ac on or off my coolant temps never get over 213. Get a stant 170* thermostat, do some duct work, and get your under hood temps down. Theyre out of control.

I know im reiterating an earlier post but your issues are clear cut and very easy to solve. Do all i listed and you will be alot happier with your tune. No need to get sidetracked on other bullshit, just take care of whats in front of you now and then deal with little stuff if you find it.


Piece of advice: After 210* coolant temps your ECU will pull timing automatically. Thats why we try to keep dsms between 180*(learn mode) and 210*

 

[Calan]

There is something out of whack here.

You are adding around 20% fuel across the board with airflow calibration, and the curve is pretty flat. This points to some error in your fuel numbers, either in the flow rate of your injectors or the output of your pump.....assuming you are on straight pump gas and CombinedFT is 0. BUT, we really need a cruise log to see what FT's look like at all operating points.

You are also pig rich at WOT; which is most likely causing the knock, considering that you are pulling so much timing due to the very high coolant temp. Drop the MAFComp sliders back to something reasonable in the upper airflow range (by the WBFactor percentage as Brian mentioned) and it should lean out to where your targets are set.

Also, your NB simulation switch point is lower than what is normal for most WB's that I have seen. Did the 2.43v come from a data sheet for your WB?

What are you controlling with the EGR solenoid?

*****

I would try to figure out why you aren't flowing the fuel you should be (or at least get MAFComp dialed in so you can see if there truly is a fuel issue), and work on getting those coolant temps down ASAP.

Please rename your wideband to "Wideband" and the Omni 4 bar to "MAP". Also, set the graph preferences (Final Overrides") for the following parameters:

AFRatioEst and Wideband:
Min: -4.7
Max: 21.2

BoostEst and MAP:
Min: -20
Max: 60

This makes it much easier to review your log. For more info on why I chose these values, see this article: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...ricks-display-optimization.html#post152279718

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Calan, if it's aem they recommend 2.43v for NB

 

[Calan]

Calan, if it's aem they recommend 2.43v for NB

Recommended, or the actual switch point of the sensor? There is a difference.

EDIT:

It seems that at least one of the AEM sensors and a couple of the Innovates are actually lower than others, but we need to know which one he has.

http://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/v3narrowbandsim

 

[Calan]

BTW OP - Your targeted timing values are pretty high for a 2.3l, especially for a small turbo and intercooler running on pump piss. If you weren't losing so much timing due to the coolant temps, you'd be knocking like crazy from high timing.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

How would you find the actual switch point?

 

[Calan]

How would you find the actual switch point?

Get hold of a data sheet for the sensor from the manufacturer. Most of them have a response chart or the transfer function posted or available in a PDF.

Zeitronix Zt-2 Wideband Analog Output

For the ZT-2, the function is:

AFR = Voltage * 2 + 9.6

After some simple algebra, we get the 14.7 switching point:

Voltage = (AFR - 9.6) / 2, or
Voltage = (14.7 - 9.6) / 2 = 2.55v

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Aem just used a bosch sensor

Calan i might need your help with one of my tunes

 

[TalonSpeed]

I have Innovate MTX-L. I set the switch point from info from ecmlink forums.

The car has a slim fan on passenger side, and oem on driver side and a fluidyne radiator.. Exhaust manifold has shield, turbo has a blanket, O2 and down pipe are exhaust wrapped. Under long pulls with spikes to 24-26psi, the car makes a bubbling noise when I stop. Like air is in coolant and pumping over to overflow tank. I cant see the bubbles and the tank doesn't overflow, but the coolant is a nasty looking color. I will try a radiator flush and see if that does anything but I am thinking head gasket.

A boost leak test is in need too, and maybe a WB reset. The EGR is controlling the dodge mod BOV

 

[Calan]

...the car makes a bubbling noise when I stop. Like air is in coolant and pumping over to overflow tank. I cant see the bubbles and the tank doesn't overflow, but the coolant is a nasty looking color. I will try a radiator flush and see if that does anything but I am thinking head gasket.

The bubbling is most likely because you are boiling the coolant. As for the headgasket, do a leak-down test or coolant pressure test before just yanking the head.

I would try a new radiator cap and thermostat, and make sure you burp the system when you add coolant. Easy and cheap, and will fix a majority of cooling-related issues.

 

[TalonSpeed]

I lowered the sliders in the WOT range that was rich. Wideband is closer to AFRest but not dead on yet. Cruise log is attached. I cruised at 60, then 70, then 85-90. I switch overdrive off and on to vary the rpm. Did some throttle inputs but not WOT.

At WOT im seeing 305gm/s at top end which is 40lbs/min, which is about all this turbo can do. With the stock intake manifold it would hit higher boost and spool slightly faster. The intake manifold did give the car more power and improve the top end drop off.

 

[boost97gst]

looking better..... Bring them mafcomps down a bit and you'll be good. I did not check your timing tables so i cant comment but everything looked fairly smooth from what i could tell. There is a chance 11.3:1 is too lean. I dont think so but you'll know when you hit it if it starts knocking to add in a touch more fuel.

Im still thinking some ducting would help you along with a lower temp thermostat.

 

[TalonSpeed]

I will install low temp t-stat, new cap, and do a coolant flush and report back.

 

[TalonSpeed]

Installed a 160* T-stat, rad flush, fresh 50/50 coolant, koyo rad cap. Car does run cooler and fans come on less. Takes a while to warm up. I pulled the maf sliders down again and now the car hits 10.7-10.9 at WOT, while it is targeting 11.3. Car feels faster and for some reason builds a little more boost.

Also did some cruise tuning with the maf sliders. Fuel and timing sliders are on 0. More WOT adjustment is needed. Will post a log this weekend.

 

[boost97gst]

Right on bro!!

 

[red_devil]

Installed a 160* T-stat, rad flush, fresh 50/50 coolant, koyo rad cap. Car does run cooler and fans come on less. Takes a while to warm up. I pulled the maf sliders down again and now the car hits 10.7-10.9 at WOT, while it is targeting 11.3. Car feels faster and for some reason builds a little more boost.

Also did some cruise tuning with the maf sliders. Fuel and timing sliders are on 0. More WOT adjustment is needed. Will post a log this weekend.

What coolant temps are you now seeing? try bring the fuel sliders down a bit more to get closer to 11.3. Also did you address the high intake temps?