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2G Crankwalk on Used 1998 engine

Posted by Shadow TT, Dec 4, 2018

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  1. Shadow TT

    Shadow TT Probationary Member

    16
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    Joined Oct 17, 2013
    howell, Michigan
    So I recently bought a used 1998 engine from a local dsm guy for a quick budget refresh and run. I was told the engine was from a running car. I tore into the engine last night and found a lot of problems. Looks like the engine had a fresh rebuild. Head was still shiny, pistons were still shiny on the bottom. The last exhaust cam cap was on backwards, Balance shafts are deleted, ect.

    IMG_20181203_1921346.jpg

    The main issue is that the crank endplay was out of spec. I could move the crank back and forth and could fit .3mm feeler gauge between the belt side thrust bearing and crankshaft. Removing the main cradle shows the main bearings have some wear and the crank had already been machined.

    IMG_20181203_2046447.jpg
    IMG_20181203_2047002.jpg

    It looks like the engine has barly been run, do you guys think its worth throwing new tri-metal bearings in and trying to run it or will it walk again? Thanks for any advice.


    IMG_20181203_2046506.jpg IMG_20181203_2047053.jpg IMG_20181203_2047075.jpg IMG_20181203_2047141.jpg IMG_20181203_2047002.jpg IMG_20181203_2047002.jpg
     
  2. Kryndon

    Kryndon Proven Member

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    Bulgaria, Europe
    From personal experience; don't bother with already-machined cranks. If it walked once, it will walk again. How much more can you take off that crank and compensate with oversized bearings? And how much longer would those bearings last? It's too much of a risk, given that you can find another block more easily than not.

    Save anything else and discard the plain block and possibly crank is what I would do. Hell, it's what I'm doing right now with mine! But that's just my opinion.
     

    Street Build 3K  9

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    14.769 @ 92.22 · 2G DSM
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  3. Shadow TT

    Shadow TT Probationary Member

    16
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    Joined Oct 17, 2013
    howell, Michigan
    Thanks for the reply, this is what I was afraid to hear, definitely got burned on this engine but man I should have checked the endplay when buying... Is it possible the bearings that were used were just out of spec? The wear on the thrust bearing surfaces doesn't look that bad in comparison with other cw posts I have seen.
     
  4. Mello

    Mello Proven Member

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    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    Double check your crankshaft end play specs. I have two FSM. One shows .05-.18mm with limit of 0.25mm & other .05-.25mm with a limit of 0.4mm. Either way, being able to fitting a .03mm shim would imply your end play is slightly larger than .03mm making it barely under the minimum and a little tight, not walking. I would measure the feeler gauge to ensure it is in spec & double check the end play measurement possibly with a magnet mounted dial indicator that measures a factor of ten better than the tolerance if possible (one more decimal place resolution). We are talking in the tens of microns for being out of spec.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
  5. Shadow TT

    Shadow TT Probationary Member

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    Joined Oct 17, 2013
    howell, Michigan
    Opps big mistake in my post, its .3mm gap. I do have plans to check with a dial indicator but .3mm seemed to far gone. I was under the assumption .25 was the limit, Id better look into this other FSM.
     
  6. Mello

    Mello Proven Member

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    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    Actually I have three FSM but is for 95-96 non-split thrust bearings. It also has the.05-.18mm with .25mm limit.
     
  7. Strm Trpr

    Strm Trpr Proven Member

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    Lodi, California
    That’s not a 98 block!
     

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    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
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  8. d1prospect

    d1prospect Proven Member

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    +1 strm trpr bearing looks like a 1 pc bearing rather than split thrust style.
     

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    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
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  9. jinscho

    jinscho Proven Member

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    Bangor, Pennsylvania
    The VIN should be cast into the block on the back (trans side). Easiest way to figure out what year the block is out of.
     

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  10. too_genecide

    too_genecide Proven Member

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    yuma, Arizona
    Use a dial indicator to measure end play. If out of spec you can try replacing the bearings. Cut cranks are ok to use if done right but those journals look like they could be kind of rough. From the info given worst case you would need new bearings and crank.
    I don't understand why you would want to scrap the block because of a little end play.
    Take measurements correctly, measurements are what you need to base your decisions on.
    I would say that you may get away with replacing the bearings. Upon assembly make sure you "seat" the thrust bearing.
     

    Street Build 962  5

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM
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  11. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    Probably developed premature thrust wear from improper assembly- there's a procedure to seating the thrust bearing properly before torquing the main caps that often gets overlooked on engines assembled by backyard mechanics or shops that are unfamiliar with the 4G63.



    Doesn't necessarily meant the crank, block, or both are junk if you're displaying .011-.012" of end play...however a true 1998 block would use a split-style thrust bearing and yours is not a three-piece bearing so that is not a 1998/1999 block.
     

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    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
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  12. chrysler kid

    chrysler kid Proven Member

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    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018

    2K  15

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM

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    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

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    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    14.1 @ 97 · 2G DSM
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  13. too_genecide

    too_genecide Proven Member

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    yuma, Arizona
    If you decide to "discard the block" send it my way I need something to stick this 100mm crank into without the down time of rebuilding the engine that's in the car right now.
     

    Street Build 962  5

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM
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  14. Shadow TT

    Shadow TT Probationary Member

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    Joined Oct 17, 2013
    howell, Michigan
    Thanks everyone for the info so far. I ended up selling the car this was going to go into after realizing the engine I bought was toast. But I will probably rebuild it over the winter and tinker on it and maybe drop it into a 3000gt in the spring.



    There is so much misinformation about crankwalk that I am not sure what to believe. Especially now that I know this is a 95-97 engine probably, it makes me a bit worried. Ill do all my measurements and go from there though.

    I guess I was confused about the differences in the thrust bearings, I had them mixed up, thinking the 98 engines had the 1 piece bearings, I will look at the vin and check it out. It does seem like improper assembly is very likely considering there are alot of mistakes in the rebuild so far.

    Chrysler Kid, I agree, and this is probably a home brew rebuild so very likely that the clearance was not checked. Although, how are you so sure a new crank is needed, the scratches on the crank seem very fine, barely felt with a finger nail. I feel like it could be polished out.

    Also, one thing that threw me off is that the cam sensor looks like how I thought a 98/99 one would be so, I assumed it was a 98 engine.
     
  15. rEclipserGST

    rEclipserGST Proven Member

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    That's not the only spot she likes riding on ;)
     

    Street Build 514  25

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    187 whp · 200 lb/ft · 2G DSM
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  16. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    You can use any cam sensor on either engine, so you cant use that to determine engine years.
     

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    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  17. d1prospect

    d1prospect Proven Member

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    From experience, I bought a late model block from “miller imports” had a 97-99 cam sensor but when I disassembled block ended up being a early bottom and a later head. Back then I didn’t even ask the qualifying questions about “vin” etc. just assumed that if someone said it came from that year motor would be right.
     

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    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
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  18. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    Indeed there is...like the fact that it's actually a common problem.
     

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    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 2G DSM

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    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

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    manual · 1G DSM

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    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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