Crankwalk? Hear Me Out...

[AsILayDying]

Alright so crankwalk is the last thing I thought was wrong with my car, but I had my brother's friend who is a mechanic pull off the crank pulley, because I thought that that was the problem, but when he got it off, there was nothing wrong with the harmonic damper or the bearing, or anything else that could be wrong with it. His conclusion was that the fact that it was walking was causing it to rub against the timing belt cover since it was ground down quite a bit. My car has 92K miles on it. I thought that crankwalk usually happened way before that? I don't understand how this happened so abruptly without any warning signs of the problem. I'm kind of stressed out right now, so if anyone could save me the money for a new engine by telling me it isn't crankwalk, that'd be great. Oh yea, I was wondering if anyone has ever had a clicking noise associated with crankwalk? Let me know.

 

[just2asian]

I'm pretty sure the clicking noise, is the lifters, see the problem with 2g lifters are that the hose isn't big enough and not enough oil gets down through them, it usually helps to change to 10w-30, but if you get the revised 3g lifters it will eliminate the lifter tick. it is very common with dsms

 

[blackbyrd]

Did you inspect the pulley yourself? that would seem to be the problem before the crankshaft at 92k miles.
Did he try prying on the crankshaft, to see if he can move it?(thus, verifying the bearings are out)
When and where do you hear this clicking noise? theres a lot of them..
Do you notice anything unusal around turns?

 

[AsILayDying]

I am aware of the lifter problem, but the clicking (when the driver side wheel is off) is coming directly from the crank pulley. Is there any other reason why the lower timing belt cover would be worn down? When you have crankwalk, doesn't the clutch pedal drop to the floor on a hard left turn? I haven't driven the car since I went to the tracks... that was about a month ago and I haven't wanted to drive it b/c on my way home from the tracks, it was clicking and eventually started shaking and making crazy noises and then just shut off. I pushed it home and it hasn't moved since. I've turned it over alot and it runs smooth... but there's a clicking noise, which speeds up with the rpms. I don't know if i have the right idea of it being crankwalk, but a trusted mechanic said that he's pretty sure thats the only possible problem.

 

[AsILayDying]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5108531850710167336&q=crank+pulley&hl=en

I'd also like to include that this 3000GT in this video sounds exactly like my clicking noise, if that helps at all. And my car takes a few turns to start, just like this video.

 

[lookin4dsm]

I am aware of the lifter problem, but the clicking (when the driver side wheel is off) is coming directly from the crank pulley. Is there any other reason why the lower timing belt cover would be worn down? When you have crankwalk, doesn't the clutch pedal drop to the floor on a hard left turn? I haven't driven the car since I went to the tracks... that was about a month ago and I haven't wanted to drive it b/c on my way home from the tracks, it was clicking and eventually started shaking and making crazy noises and then just shut off. I pushed it home and it hasn't moved since. I've turned it over alot and it runs smooth... but there's a clicking noise, which speeds up with the rpms. I don't know if i have the right idea of it being crankwalk, but a trusted mechanic said that he's pretty sure thats the only possible problem.

If you do have crankwalk, the clicking is probably the crank sensor plate/blade hitting the crank sensor because the crank is moving too far forward or backward. It will eventually destroy the crank sensor and the car won't start. It would also explain why the timing cover is worn down.

Listen to Blackbyrd. You or your mechanic need to measure the end play of the crank to find out.

Mike

 

[AsILayDying]

So if my lower timing belt cover is dug in about 1 to 2mm, is that a symptom of crankwalk or would that just be a bad pulley? Correct me if I'm wrong, but crankwalk is when the crankshaft gets off by about 1/1000 of an inch. How would that cause it to dig in that far? My car didn't have any problems at all up until the last day at the track and for that matter it didn't start clicking until my 3rd run. I didn't think that crankwalk was an immediate thing? Wouldn't I see signs of it before it starts messing up?

 

[Arrow_Runner]

So if my lower timing belt cover is dug in about 1 to 2mm, is that a symptom of crankwalk or would that just be a bad pulley?

I'm interested in hearing the answer to this as well. I have that issue, no clicking or any other problems, just a really worn belt cover. So much to the point that when I was removing the cover the other week, I didn't even notice that I missed a bolt because there was so much plastic built up on it.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

As stated above the only way to tel is to measure the crankshaft endplay. My car was walking when I bought it, but it lasted over 20K walking.

Have it checked before you automatically think CW.

 

[AsILayDying]

http://www.dsm.org/archives/1998/09/19980914.txt/71.html

"When the crankshaft "walks", it pushes the backplate into the crank
sensor causing it to fail (literally, it tears through the sensor)."

http://members.shaw.ca/costall/1000Q/answers-terms.htm#whatiscrankwalk

"Another possibility is having the engine RPM decrease significantly when the clutch pedal is down. "

That is exactly what mine is doing... I know it isn't common for crankwalk
at 92K miles, but it all makes sense with the sympotoms I have.

I don't know if this matters, but i recall the previous owner telling me that he took off the restrictor plate on the clutch...

 

[95-talontsi]

No removing the restrictor in the slave cylinder won't cause that. Honestly what I would do is get the crank checked for play, If its out of spec start saving for a new motor and drive it but thats just me.

 

[lookin4dsm]

So if my lower timing belt cover is dug in about 1 to 2mm, is that a symptom of crankwalk or would that just be a bad pulley? Correct me if I'm wrong, but crankwalk is when the crankshaft gets off by about 1/1000 of an inch. How would that cause it to dig in that far? My car didn't have any problems at all up until the last day at the track and for that matter it didn't start clicking until my 3rd run. I didn't think that crankwalk was an immediate thing? Wouldn't I see signs of it before it starts messing up?

Have you measured the end play yet? A couple other things to try:

1. Have another person crank over the motor while you look at the crank pulley. Does it wobble and/or hit the timing cover. I know you and your mechanic inspected it off the car. Check it also while it is on the car.

2. If the crank pulley is not the problem, pull off the timing cover and do the same thing. Is the clicking still there? If so, then it is probably the back/trigger plate hitting the crank sensor. If not, you may just have a warped timing cover. Are all the bolts installed for the cover?

3. Measure the crank end play. Measure the crank end play. Measure the crank end play.

Mike

 

[lookin4dsm]

I'm interested in hearing the answer to this as well. I have that issue, no clicking or any other problems, just a really worn belt cover. So much to the point that when I was removing the cover the other week, I didn't even notice that I missed a bolt because there was so much plastic built up on it.

See my post above. If you don't have crankwalk, it is probably a bad crank pulley, a warped timing cover, or missing timing cover bolt(s).

Mike

 

[Dasamary]

Not trying to hijack the thread but I'd assume the best place to get the crank checked for any play is a Mits. dealer???

 

[rad_dsm]

I have searched and I couldn't find it (but I know it is there). But how do you measure crank end play short of taking it to the stealer.

Thanks

Have you measured the end play yet? A couple other things to try:

1. Have another person crank over the motor while you look at the crank pulley. Does it wobble and/or hit the timing cover. I know you and your mechanic inspected it off the car. Check it also while it is on the car.

2. If the crank pulley is not the problem, pull off the timing cover and do the same thing. Is the clicking still there? If so, then it is probably the back/trigger plate hitting the crank sensor. If not, you may just have a warped timing cover. Are all the bolts installed for the cover?

3. Measure the crank end play. Measure the crank end play. Measure the crank end play.

Mike

 

[lookin4dsm]

I have searched and I couldn't find it (but I know it is there). But how do you measure crank end play short of taking it to the stealer.

Thanks

Make sure the crank is pryed/pushed all the way towards the flywheel side of motor. Using a dial caliper and magnetic base, secure the end of the dial caliper against the crank pulley. Zero out the dial caliper. Pry/push crank all the way towards dial caliper and read the measurement.

Harbor Freight has the dial caliper and magnetic base pretty cheap.

Mike

 

[Daveed]

Make sure the crank is pryed/pushed all the way towards the flywheel side of motor. Using a dial caliper and magnetic base, secure the end of the dial caliper against the crank pulley. Zero out the dial caliper. Pry/push crank all the way towards dial caliper and read the measurement.

Harbor Freight has the dial caliper and magnetic base pretty cheap.

Mike

Took me about 1/2hr of searching to find this answer. Thanks man! Only other question I have is what are the tolerances for crankshaft endplay? (specifically for a 1990 TSI)



PS My CD from forced performance is in the mail so I don't have my manual yet.

 

[blackbyrd]

Crankshaft Endplay: mm (in)
Standard is 0.05-0.18 (.0020-.0070)
Limit is 0.25 (.0098)

Is what the manual says.

 

[Daveed]

Crankshaft Endplay: mm (in)
Standard is 0.05-0.18 (.0020-.0070)
Limit is 0.25 (.0098)

Is what the manual says.

Thanks! That was very quick and quite helpful


edit: Just measured and mine is .006".
My method of measuring had to be slightly different than most because my motor is partially apart but still in the vehicle.
I put the mini mag on the frame rail and the tip of the indicator on the crank sprocket (which is just about seized on there...I'll be using a puller later today to get it off). I unscrewed the crank bolt about 1/2" and used a big pry bar to lever the crank towards the front of the motor. Since I have my motor partially apart I used the top motor mount half that was still bolted to the timing belt area to leverage off of. The tip of the pry bar was between the crank bolt and the crank sprocket (pushing on the crank bolt to pull the crank forward as far as it will go) I then set my dial indicator to zero and used a bar to push the crank as far as it would go towards the back of the motor. Did it three times to make sure everything was consistent because I could see the motor move a little in its other motor mount when I'd push on the crank. Came out .006" each time.

 

[Defiant]

So, you don't have crankwalk.

 

[luv2rallye]

One person's method of measuring crankwalk: http://www.angelfire.com/pa4/awdcrankwalk/