Clutch engagement Issues (southbend)

[forcefed86]

Hoping you can help me with a clutch setup issue.

Just installed a Jacks transmissions 600hp trans with a new ACT 2600PP, Fidanza alum flywheel (new insert) and a Southbend Kevlar/feramic clutch. I seem to have trouble with engagement/drag. According to Jack o f ”Jacks transmissions” this is because the fidanza flywheels are not stepped properly and the southbend clutches are too heavy. This combination causes the clutch to not fully release. The trans feels slightly notchy and if I rev it to 7k in first with the clutch depressed the car creeps forward. This seems odd to me. I don’t want to run an un-sprung 4 puck on my daily driver. And I’ve heard of others running southbend full face kevlar clutches with fidanza flywheels. I’m not sure what is wrong.

I have my master/pedal adjustment extended to max travel. Also the cruise control switch is setup for max pedal travel. New pedal assy. as well. According to the master/slave adjustment videos from Jack I should be able to extend the pedal to the point of the self centering bleed to be covered up and no longer allow the fork to move AFT (away from fork). My pedal is adjusted to the point of one thread coming through the opposite side and the fork will still travel aft. I can’t seem to block off this “bleeder passage”

Below is a video of my fork travel. I also happen to have one of the extended slave rods. With this installed the small piston in the slave no longer reached full travel, yet the fork appears to move the same distance. So I believe I am at max allowable fork travel. (pivot ball is also shimmed with 1 std washer).

I’m lost… I really don’t feel like dropping the trans again and buying a 4 puck as this is my daily driver. Any suggestions?

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[forcefed86]

**UPDATE***

I welded a nut on the back of the bracket that attached the pedal to the master cylinder rod. Doing this allowed me to turn the master rod enough to block off the return bleeder port. This did allow for more travel but also made a draging/chatter noise upon full pedal depression. Also looking under the car I could see the fork flex at full extension. So I know it was extending too far.

Probably draging the clutch springs on the PP fingers? Either way It went shifted better without the extra travel. 4 turns less travel the noise went away so that's where it sits. Still has notchy gear engagement. 120 miles or so now with my slipping the clutch pretty heavily.

Looks like I'll have to pull this clutch out.

 

[Artago]

Probably draging the clutch springs on the PP fingers?

Probably. I destroyed a clutch doing that. Very bad.

 

[forcefed86]

Probably. I destroyed a clutch doing that. Very bad.

Well this was at idle and a pretty faint noise, but I can see how this would easily destroy soem things at RPM.

According to Andy at South Bend...

If you can shift without grinding, keep driving. The ACT PP does not lift as far as a stock PP. It will take more driving to wear enough off the disc to increase the plate gap on the PP.

I you cannot shift without grinding then pull the trans and send the parts to me.

I'm just worried about how hard these miles will be on the syncros in the trans. Transmission wasn't cheap! Although I can't hear them spin up and I never have to "force" a gear. My previous setup was like butter. It just sort of "fell" into gear. (ACT2600, same flywheel, ACT street Disk)

 

[jawar666]

Do you have any updates on this?

I would love to see how it ended!

 

[forcefed86]

Do you have any updates on this?

I would love to see how it ended!

Sure...

After 500 miles of riding the clutch pretty hard I was able to adjust the master rod to full extension without "the noise". This made a huge difference, but I still don't think the trans shifts as it should. No issues with gear grinding, but it still feels notchy on occasion, going into second mainly. I haven't really tried shifting it over 7k. Winter has set in and conditions aren't good for that sort of thing. I can also not rev the car to 7k in neutral without the car creeping forward. I don't think the clutch is dragging at all now.

If I were to do it again I'd either use the suggested 4 puck soild disc. Or run an OEM flywheel with the SB clutch and machine a little more step height to allow more room between the PP and clutch. I daily drive the car and have roughly 1000 miles on it. It is perfectly drivable, although I wonder how it will shift at over 7k. I plan to continue riding the clutch pretty hard for the remainder of the winter months. I hear these feramic/Kevlar clutches wear very slowly and they are thicker than the ACT discs out of the box. I believe it's a space issue. And hope it will improve as the disc wears. Once this disc is shot I'll probably go with a solid 4 puck.

 

[daniel dee]

this problem has been addressed in the Canada DSM Forum

2g Yet Another Clutch Engagement - Club DSM Canada


Increasing the stepped height seems to compensate for the thicker Southbend disc.
Read on!! as there is more information regarding this issue.

 

[Chipper308]

my exact issue, any input for post 500 miles? i got the southbend kevlar disk and a new tmz stage 3 trans, adjstments, bleeding, new slave/master as of 6000 miles ago and its notchy, very notchy, by no means will it "eat" the gear and if i put the pedal to the floor and run 7-8k rpms it will move forward in allmost a walking speed....so if you tell me the disk wears down and fixes the issue, im going to be a very happy camper, and what of your sychros and trans wear? any problems?! Thanks!

 

[forcefed86]

my exact issue, any input for post 500 miles? i got the southbend kevlar disk and a new tmz stage 3 trans, adjstments, bleeding, new slave/master as of 6000 miles ago and its notchy, very notchy, by no means will it "eat" the gear and if i put the pedal to the floor and run 7-8k rpms it will move forward in allmost a walking speed....so if you tell me the disk wears down and fixes the issue, im going to be a very happy camper, and what of your sychros and trans wear? any problems?! Thanks!

Mine was never severely notchy. Regardless of how much you’ve bled the system, have you verified the slave actuator is traveling as far out as it will go? IE take the boot off and verify the “cup” of the slave is traveling to the very end of the slave cylinder? With my clutch in and reving to 6k the car would barely creep forward, and does not at all anymore. If the car is moving forward that much the clutch is dragging and you will damage the trans if you’re hard on it. Did you shim the pivot ball? Check your step height on the flywheel? Something’s off I wouldn’t risk a trans rebuild to find out. May want to call south bend as well. I had heard that they now shaved the clutches down to the ACT widths so this would no longer happen.

 

[Chipper308]

Tranny was installed by a shop, so I'm sure that's going to be good....just curious how your grant wore thru the break in....no ruined trans? Disk still good?? Thanks!

 

[forcefed86]

Tranny was installed by a shop, so I'm sure that's going to be good....just curious how your grant wore thru the break in....no ruined trans? Disk still good?? Thanks!

If the trans and clutch were installed at a shop and the clutch drags I'd bring it back and tell them to fix it! I wouldn't assume a shop knows what they are doing. Esp with aftermarket parts.



My disk and trans are fine, but it sounds like yours is dragging much worse than mine. My clutch barely dragged and was only slightly notchy. I put a good 1000 miles on mine before it got better. And I rode the clutch pretty hard on that 1000 miles. It was noticeably better at 500. and even better around a 1000. I've launched it hard at the drag strip and on the street several times since so I'm sure it's wore down plenty at this point.

 

[Chipper308]

Well mine cleaned up a LOT since the new master and what not, 1st is still a biotch, but i think it will wear down properly.... from what i hear the synchros on a new trans need to set themselves properly throughout the break-in...idk if this info is accurate, just a machine shop guy

 

[forcefed86]

Well mine cleaned up a LOT since the new master and what not, 1st is still a biotch, but i think it will wear down properly.... from what i hear the synchros on a new trans need to set themselves properly throughout the break-in...idk if this info is accurate, just a machine shop guy

Good luck.

A nice test is to rev the car up to 2k in neutral (car stopped) and try to engage reverse. If you can't you have issues.