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Haltech CAS and CKP sensors

Posted by all black 4G63, Dec 3, 2019 at 6:25 PM

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  1. all black 4G63

    all black 4G63 Probationary Member

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    Is it common to use a 2G CAS on a 1G 6 bolt (90 TSI)? When ordering the Haltech 4G63 terminated harness they can custom fab it for a 2G CAS for a 1G engine.
    Has anyone installed the Kiggly Racing CKP kit for a 1G using the Haltech terminated harness with the Elite 1500, is there anything in particular to note for the wiring?
     

    Street Build 262  3

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  2. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

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    I have not used that specific harness but the wiring is very straight forward. 12v, ground, then signal goes to the crank signal pin. Normally, crank signal would come from cas.
     

    Street Build 3K  10

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  3. KentStateTsi

    KentStateTsi Proven Member

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    Delaware, Ohio
    Not much help because I did a 12 tooth on my evo but it would be the exact sensor/trigger setup you describe. The 2g/evo cam sensors are so much cheaper than a 1g cas should it go bad.

    Changing to a different trigger setup will require adjustments to the trigger page on the ESP. tooth count for home/crank and offset angles may need changed.
     
  4. bling5tatus

    bling5tatus Proven Member

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    The 2g sensors are more accurate than a 1g cas.... they can also accurately account for deck height differences, I know someone is going to say this is a **** hair of a degree difference, but it doesn't matter when you're building "race cars". That little degree of difference matters and is why Mitsubishi UPDATED to 2 sensors in the later models rather than getting the cam and crank signals from one sensor (the 1g CAS).
     

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    1989 Dodge Colt GT
    manual · 4G63t Swapped

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    1991 Eagle Talon TSi
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  5. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    Actually the reason that Mitsubishi separated the cam and crank sensors on the 2g cars was to comply with obd2 standards that were coming into play in 1996, part of the obd2 standards is that a cars ecu must be able to detect a misfire and having both in the same unit wont allow the ecu to do that. The sensors are for the most part the same sensors, they just are mounted in different parts of the engine.
     

    Drag Race Build 3K  24

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  6. awdmonster1904

    awdmonster1904 Proven Member

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    That’s exactly what my tuner told me on my race car i run kiggly 12 tooth with 2g 99 CAS on my aem infinity.
     

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    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
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  7. bling5tatus

    bling5tatus Proven Member

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    That is likely true, with the added benefit of having a more accurate engine position reading system. The stock 1g cannot detect random misfires like the 2g 2 sensor setup can..... and, as I said, it cannot account for deck height differences if you mill your head/block. It's probably also better for people using 2.4L blocks w/ the galant cam gears too.

    Anyway, I haven't done it yet on any of my cars, but I will switch to this type of setup when I put a haltech on my car at some point soon.

    edit: it's almost like, as time goes on, people are starting to realize that the 2g setup is better than the 6 bolt setup. I think the ONLY reason people like the 6 bolt setup is because of the heavier duty rods/pistons/crank. All of this can be remedied in a 2g engine with aftermarket parts. I think the gig is up on 6 bolt stuff tbh. They're not available very easily anymore and the ones that are people treat like they're made out of gold and glued together with unicorn jizz.
     

    Street Build 2K  1

    1989 Dodge Colt GT
    manual · 4G63t Swapped

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    1991 Eagle Talon TSi
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  8. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    The big ports on the 1g head is desirable for drag racers, as is the larger head studs and the slim chances of crankwalk vs the 7 bolt, there are also it seems more aftermarket support for the 6 bolt in some ways.
     

    Drag Race Build 3K  24

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
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  9. bling5tatus

    bling5tatus Proven Member

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    ^^I wouldn't say the big ports are better until you're over a certain hp level. There are drag racers of many hp levels and I wouldn't expect to see any gains from using a 1g head until my engine was over the 800hp worth of airflow mark. Below that, I'm not sure why you'd sacrifice the larger power band..... so I do not agree that "it's better for drag racers" as a blanket statement.

    I've crank walked a 6-bolt before. Further, if you want to talk about crank walk.... let's talk about EXACTLY what causes crank walk. I have a pretty good idea of what causes it, but I'm interested in hearing your thoughts since you brought it up as a weakness in this platform.

    Head studs are as strong as the material and treatment processes they go through. I wouldn't doubt that a modern 11mm stud would have an issue holding the engine together under a lot of boost with a proper tune. 9% bigger isn't that much of a gain with 12mm studs. Serious racers would likely use a billet block anyway that can accommodate whatever size studs you want, or they'd go through the trouble of making a block handle whatever size studs they think it needs.

    I'm not just trying to sh** all over what you said, but I've seen issues in the past with people on this site (including some "wisemen") speaking authoritatively about things while simultaneously not being correct or considering the other angles to what they're saying. For instance, saying "6-bolt is better for drag racing" is kind of not a great thing to spread around when there are people that are potentially gullible and not as knowledgeable reading.

    I've never ran a 7-bolt anything, but my race motor is a 2g 7-bolt.... and it's going to either be installed in a 1g awd chassis or my dodge colt if it doesn't sale on here. Before anyone goes keyboard cowboy and attempts to assert their "knowledge" about DSMs, I already know that a 2g engine won't just go into a 1g chassis. If I thought the 6-bolt engine was a better engine (which I have a plethora of spares for).... I'd be using that..... but I'm not going to.
     

    Street Build 2K  1

    1989 Dodge Colt GT
    manual · 4G63t Swapped

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    1991 Eagle Talon TSi
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  10. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    No oil with a heavy clutch during startup and your foot on that heavy clutch = crank thrust surface wear.
    Built 2 6 bolts side by side. The one from the auto car had virtually NO thrust wear, the one from a street car with just a ACT 2600 had significantly more wear but still within operating limits. Was nice to see the auto cars crank was so tight. .0025 on the auto crank, .005 on the stick shift crank.
    My observations.
     

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    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

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    awd · manual · 1G DSM

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    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

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    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

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    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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  11. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    Which is why your defending the 7 bolt..."because its what I have" I am not going to re-hash decades of knowledge and facts about the 6 bolt vs 7 bolt engines, if you want to pretend that the 7 bolt doesn't have crankwalk issues and smaller lower flowing ports and smaller weaker rods and smaller weaker head studs , then there's no point in even going down that road with you, look if it makes you sleep better at night then thats what you can believe, decades of people racing the 4g63 has proven otherwise, believe what you want and nit pick whatever facts that you want, while its true that liars sometimes figure, its also true that figures never lie. Ive crankwalked a big block Chevy, that doesn't mean that they have a crankwalk problem like the 7 bolt 4g63, they are known for crankwalk for a reason, like it or not, they are weaker in several different areas, its not debatable 12mm studs are stronger than 11mm studs in the same material period, smaller rods are weaker than bigger rods of the same material period, smaller ports flow less than larger ports period like it or not.

    There was obviously a problem with the 7 bolt 2g engine, Mitsubishi fixed it in the Evo, they know it was a problem because they knew how to fix it, the 2g 7 bolt was made in USA, something went wrong, my guess is a combination of things, including poor iron content in the blocks, not hardening the crankshafts properly and the 2g clutch pedal not self adjusting and causing pedal pressure to remain applied to the crankshaft, not allowing oil to enter the thrust face of the main "thrust" bearing, couple that with the lack of zinc in the motor oils in that time and manufacturers not hardening engine parts to make up for it and you have crankwalk, GM went through it with cam lobes getting wiped off due to lack of zinc in the oil during that time as well, they now harden the cams and or use roller lifters to make up for the loss of zinc. The clutch pedal alone isnt the only problem, plenty of guys install a 6 bolt and leave the clutch pedal setup alone and dont get crankwalk ever again, so its not the only problem or just a single problem, its a combination as I said, couple those with an aftermarket heavy clutch and forget it.

    Notice also that I said the 6 bolt head is chosen for drag racing more often, I have flow benched both the 6 bolt and 7 bolt heads and the 6 bolt flows better, simple as that, as far as giving up a powerband for extra flow, I'm not entirely sure what kind of a broad power band you believe a drag racer is looking for but I'm fairly certain that any serious racer is looking for maximum power over drive-ability.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019 at 10:42 PM

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    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
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  12. bling5tatus

    bling5tatus Proven Member

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    Welp i only got through your first sentence and already see where you're 100% wrong. I get it, you have an axe to grind, but you sound like one of the old carburetor rednecks that says "it's just better, it's easier."

    I think ti's funny how you're seriously going to sit here and argue with the engineering of a team of paid engineers at Mitsubishi about what is better or not. Crank walk isn't a thing anymore. The cars that were going to crank walk have already done it.

    I have a single 2g 7 bolt motor and like 8 6-bolt 1g motors so "it's what I have" is you being full of balogna. I'll read the rest of your (likely bs) post when I get home from work.
     

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    1989 Dodge Colt GT
    manual · 4G63t Swapped

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    1991 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM
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  13. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    Another one of my buddy's car crankwalked two months ago, so they haven't all crankwalked by any means, argue with an engineering team at Mitsubishi? LOL why do you think there are recalls? why do you think the 2g crankwalked yet the 6 bolt isn't known for it and the Evo isnt known for it? you seem to put blind faith in the engineers and its proven fatal in plenty of circumstances, (GM ignition switch recall that cost plenty of people their lives) (Takata airbag recall that cost plenty of people their lives), there is no arguement here with Mitsubishi engineers, as an engineering student myself, they were simply wrong on their calculations or expected real world use of their product, simple as that, mistakes are made, nobody's perfect...this doesn't mean that the 7 bolt was intentionally junk, it was accidentally junk instead, they rested on their laurels and it bit them in the a$$ thats all, they cheapened and lightened the 4g63 to save fuel for cafe standards and to keep it light for fuel economy and also made the engines with smaller fasteners and in the USA to simply save cash and maximize profits, very simple really just follow the money, the believed that they could make those changes and still have a stout engine and instead found out that they just found the limits of the materials and it cost them bundles in warranty money, they changed it back to better materials on the Evo and found other places to cut costs such as the cheap interior, no argueing with the engineers here, I'm smarter than that, I know what they did and why already!
     

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    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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