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2G Cam choice help

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Quent

Probationary Member
13
4
Nov 3, 2020
Cincinnati, Ohio
Hey my eclipse gst spyder is basically stock a apexi n1 exhaust and megan downpipe. I want a rough idle aggressive lope cam. But my car doesn't have alot of power (basically stock) . If I put gsc s2's or bc 280's will that hurt my car? I know the lower profiles like 264 and 268 is what I need but it doesnt have the choppy aggresive sound I want
 
It depends on what you mean by "hurt my car." If you pick a cam with an aggressive ramp and/or high lift, you absolutely will run into a failure using them with your factory valve springs. But that's the only scenario that would cause damage. But it will hurt your fuel economy quite a bit. [EDIT: Emissions will increase drastically.] Your car will be a bit slower and feel a lot slower if you stick with the stock turbo. I'd imagine that the stock tune wouldn't play nicely with a big cam either.

For the record I think this is a terrible idea in general, but what you can do (and should do anyway if you switch to an aggressive cam) is get adjustable cam gears. You could probably get some interesting sounds out of the stock cams just by playing with the timings and if you're still not getting what you want, then you can think about investing in cams. You can also try lowering your idle speed a bit to get more of that effect, but I don't remember if you can even do that on the factory ECU.
 
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It depends on what you mean by "hurt my car." If you pick a cam with an aggressive ramp and/or high lift, you absolutely will run into a failure using them with your factory valve springs. But that's the only scenario that would cause damage. But it will hurt your fuel economy quite a bit. Your car will be a bit slower and feel a lot slower if you stick with the stock turbo. I'd imagine that the stock tune wouldn't play nicely with a big cam either.

For the record I think this is a terrible idea in general, but what you can do (and should do anyway if you switch to an aggressive cam) is get adjustable cam gears. You could probably get some interesting sounds out of the stock cams just by playing with the timings and if you're still not getting what you want, then you can think about investing in cams. You can also try lowering your idle speed a bit to get more of that effect, but I don't remember if you can even do that on the factory ECU.
Thankyou yeah i'm not trying to keep this car simple as possible. What camshaft do you recommend for a stock setup I have a 16g just not bolted yet
 
Your priorities sound like they might have been different from mine when I was shopping, but I was looking for an overall torque improvement with my Evo III 16g without sacrificing fuel economy or any low end. I was looking at HKS 264s and their equivalents, but mild cams aren't exactly popular or common amongst the "bang for the buck" DSM crowd. I am running a set of FP1 cams which I am told are identical to the Comp 101100, and I am happy with them. I'm on speed density so I can show that my volumetric efficiency increased from idle to redline but the strong midrange of the stock cams is maintained with these, making them a great pairing for TD05-based turbos. I have since upgraded to an HTA68 v1 and still feel like this cam is the perfect pairing for this turbo. I do hear a difference in idle that is more aggressive and pleasing but it's nowhere near the rough loping that you're seeking. But I'm also using the factory non-adjustable cam gears, so you could adjust them to suit your tastes if you wanted and could change the sound quite a bit.
 
Food for thought, I can change the tune in my cars (they are running Kelfords) and make the idle smooth as silk or goof around with it's AFR's and make them lopey. I like mine to "hide" so I keep the idle and tune smooth for a reasonably even tone. Just putting that out there.
 
Interesting goals in the OP. Where the lopey idle sound in modified cars was merely a by-product of cam selection and tuning for the goal of (usually) higher peak output and better 1/4-mile et, here the "goal" specifically is the sound associated with that sort of modification. Along these same lines, the "agressive" cam grinds and tuning of lopey cars we intended to provide their benefit in the mid to high bands of RPM range, in this case the desired benefit is essentially at idle and just off idle. Aggressive cams sound rather even and "smooth" when revving at higher rpm operation (though often very loud, because of corresponding exhaust mods).

I'm actually more curious on whether this person would be better off toward their goals (as much as I also don't share or really even value them much) with the lager 16g turbo, or keep the smaller 14b. Perhaps tubular headers, again not for better performance but more acoustics, would be an option. There are even ebay cheapos that might be the loudest?!!?. Still makes me wonder how many CV boots, gaskets, or timing parts are in need of maintenance on this car, given the owner's priorities. But the attention grabbing "show" of modified cars has always gone in hand with the "I can go faster than you can" mentality that is the muse of hot rodding (now called "tuning"...).
 
Interesting goals in the OP. Where the lopey idle sound in modified cars was merely a by-product of cam selection and tuning for the goal of (usually) higher peak output and better 1/4-mile et, here the "goal" specifically is the sound associated with that sort of modification. Along these same lines, the "agressive" cam grinds and tuning of lopey cars we intended to provide their benefit in the mid to high bands of RPM range, in this case the desired benefit is essentially at idle and just off idle. Aggressive cams sound rather even and "smooth" when revving at higher rpm operation (though often very loud, because of corresponding exhaust mods).

I'm actually more curious on whether this person would be better off toward their goals (as much as I also don't share or really even value them much) with the lager 16g turbo, or keep the smaller 14b. Perhaps tubular headers, again not for better performance but more acoustics, would be an option. There are even ebay cheapos that might be the loudest?!!?. Still makes me wonder how many CV boots, gaskets, or timing parts are in need of maintenance on this car, given the owner's priorities. But the attention grabbing "show" of modified cars has always gone in hand with the "I can go faster than you can" mentality that is the muse of hot rodding (now called "tuning"...).
Some other dude a couple days ago was upset the a/c was kickin on and bumping his timing up and smoothing out his lope. He was trying to figure out to get the lope back when the a/c kicks on. :idontknow::idontknow::idontknow::idontknow:
 
I'd like a little input as well. I'm a "returning" DSMer from the early 2000s. I wrecked my last one back in 09 and saved the engine, TRE FWD trans, and a wire harness that can be rebuilt.

Now that I have a turbo (KTS D645 comp wheel with a TD06 turbine), ext 38mm wastegate, and a few other things in work/on the way, I want to consider cams.

Something like a BC or Kelford 272 with wider lobe separation, GSC Stage 1 (the 268), Kelford 264/268 with a more narrow lobe separation be suitable for this turbo? JMF street intake is what I think I want; trying to be honest with myself about how this next car and engine will be used for a majority of it's life. There are so many choices, combos, variations, blah blah blah to get lost in. I'm not filling out a profile until I start getting more parts, block through a machine shop and assembled, and a car to drop this stuff into.

I'm not looking for a quick and easy answer. This isn't a short, easy question. If your explanation is long-winded, that's fine. I've been searching and reading for days about this topic and figured finding a newer thread would be appropriate.
 
Street car, track car, autox or DD?
Or all of the above, LOL?
And "Welcome Back", glad to see you still have a passion for these little monsters.
Marty
 
It depends on what you mean by "hurt my car." If you pick a cam with an aggressive ramp and/or high lift, you absolutely will run into a failure using them with your factory valve springs. But that's the only scenario that would cause damage. But it will hurt your fuel economy quite a bit. [EDIT: Emissions will increase drastically.] Your car will be a bit slower and feel a lot slower if you stick with the stock turbo. I'd imagine that the stock tune wouldn't play nicely with a big cam either.

For the record I think this is a terrible idea in general, but what you can do (and should do anyway if you switch to an aggressive cam) is get adjustable cam gears. You could probably get some interesting sounds out of the stock cams just by playing with the timings and if you're still not getting what you want, then you can think about investing in cams. You can also try lowering your idle speed a bit to get more of that effect, but I don't remember if you can even do that on the factory ECU.
You guys make me feel like my build is forbidden 😂
My vehicle giddyups just like any other vehicle. The 16g works perfectly(for me daily driven) & on a stock tune, stock downpipe, no cat(back). My gas mileage is perfectly fine. Now ive only been in 1 other dsm(oem/awd16g/18#) & that was 2 years ago and cant quiet remember the feeling too much because mine is running.(to compare before/after) i do have other mods tho which should be helping me. I did not choose this build & from the 2+yrs ive been reading about these machines w 280s&plenty of dynos sheets read, ill be having to push this 16g all the way to get full potential of this setup.

Im not after a sound & dont really understand that concept. I have 1200cc injectors,ecmv3,& a he351 which ill be pushing soon for my ultimate goal. (Not installed yet)

Upgrading the springs/head for a sound is going to cost and require downtime. Not many DSM folks are into those 2(To the original post).
 
Boy, isn't that valve spring tool a god send Mike? I love mine (I actually have 2 and I work on one side while my right hand man works on the other side). Just proper tools for these cars does make jobs much easier.
 
Do you guys work on the same cylinder at the same time? How do you keep the valves from dropping once you pull the valve train? I do one cylinder at a time using compressed air

That tool is awesome. The only other time I swapped the valve train the head was off the car. Are use one of those tools that had the long arm that you used to compress the springs. What a pain in the ass. I actually had to use the bottom of the bench to hold the head in place while I compressed the springs
 
I can't work on more than one if the head is on and engine in the car, but when I am building motors, I work on one side of the head and my 23 yr old son works on the other side.
 
If you have enough valve tools one could potentially do 2 cylinder at a time on inline 4's with the head installed. Pistons are at TDC in pairs but, although possible, I don't anybody that tries to do this.
 
If you have enough valve tools one could potentially do 2 cylinder at a time on inline 4's with the head installed. Pistons are at TDC in pairs but, although possible, I don't anybody that tries to do this.

You need a way to keep the valves from falling when installing the keepers. Unless u have two air compressors with connections for spark plug holes
 
Yep and most of us have seen the thread about getting the rope caught in the dead cylinder nightmare but it IS possible.
If I HAD to do do it quick at the track, I'd still double think it but you CAN but you have to use rope in the dead one since its valves are partially open or maybe wide open at that point probably.
 
Swapping valvetrain takes a few hours at most, and that’s with the head on the car. I just did this last week.

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That compressed air supply provided enough resistance on the valve for the keepers and the retainers to let go??
 
Street car, track car, autox or DD?
Or all of the above, LOL?
And "Welcome Back", glad to see you still have a passion for these little monsters.
Marty
Wasn't clear. Sorry. I guess (D) all the above. Autocross is accessible to most people, I don't want to just drag race even though it looks cool, so I guess that leaves weekend warrior street car and maybe a road race machine if I can figure out the vehicle prep.
 
That compressed air supply provided enough resistance on the valve for the keepers and the retainers to let go??

Yes it does. Always make sure the cylinder you are working on, the piston is at TDC, for extra precaution. My little compressor couldn’t always keep up so towards the end of each cylinder, my valve might move down a little when the spring was compressed and I was trying to install the keepers. The piston won’t hold the valve high enough, but keeps it from falling completely through.
 
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