Injector choice help.

[str95tsi]

Here's my set up...
..Bake and Blastengine block Clean all parts for assembly
Wiseco HD 2 7-bolt 8.5:1
Oliver Billet steel 150mm rods
7-bolt H Rod Bearing
7-bolt H Main bearing set
Bore & Hone cylinder
Polish Crankshaft
Balance I4Balance rotating assembly for Inline 4 engine
Hang Pistons Flo...Hang
BlockDeck Inline engine Clean engine blockFreeze plugs
Balance shaft bearings
ARP 7-bolt main stud set
Align Hone engine block Assemble
4G63 short block Force Engineering ZFG Short Block
Machine rod Machine oil squirter in connecting rod set
Kiggley Street Beehive springs& retaineretainer set
3 angle valve job
Force Engineering 4G63 port work (Stage 1)
Deck Cylinder HeadLevel and cut cylinder head
Assemble DOHC head
Supertech 1mm over Intake valve
Valve stem seal set
Bead blast & hot tank cylinder head
Exhaust stud set
Supertech Exhaust Valve Standard size
Kiggly HLA
Street&Strip 4g63 head (stage1),
Stubby Shaft
Castle plug
Balance shaft spacer
Tensioner Pulley
Idler pulley
92 94Tensioner

Strait cut oil pump gears
Force ISF oil pump gear finish water pump
timing belt
3 gen lifter set
Labor to complete long block assembly from short block
APR custom aged 625+ 7-bolt head stud set
4G63 gasket kit
Fel-Pro Perma Torque HG
Mail oil galley plug
7-bolt core short block
7-bolt core cylinder head
ATI balancer
Fidanza adjustable cam gears
Gate's Kevlar timing belt
Kelford 272 cams
FP ported GREEN turbo
FP ported exhaust manifold
Punishment racing 02 housing with external tial waste gate
Megan 3" exhaust
Walbro 450lph fuel pump
Innovate mtx-l wide band
MAGNUS fuel rail
Aeromotive A1000 fuel pressure regulator 13101 or MAGNUS haven't desided
ECM Link V-3
Injectors unknown for now
I hope i didn't forget anything

So what injectors would you run on this set up if it was a daily driver/ race car
Rightnow i'd be happy to see 400hp- 450hp out of the FP GREEN on clear 93 octane and 450hp-500hp on e85.

 

[TunedUp]

Do you plan to run e85? I noticed you have a 450lph fuel pump. If I had this setup I would run e85 and run 2150cc injectors plenty of room to grow and even run a second pump.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

I also didnt see you did not list anything about power goals or your ends goals! We need this to help get you some where. Use this calculator to get an idea as to the correct size to buy http://fuelinjectorclinic.com/flow-calculator

 

[str95tsi]

Do you plan to run e85? I noticed you have a 450lph fuel pump. If I had this setup I would run e85 and run 2150cc injectors plenty of room to grow and even run a second pump.

Yes i do plan on running e85 but mostly clear 93 octane.
Also i was looking into the F.I.C. 1650cc high-Z but also the 2150cc high-Z look good. Only there are potential corrosion issues that may arise from prolonged disuse while exposed to alcohol based fuels (E85, etc.) I like the fact that the F.I.C. 1650cc seemed to have a stainless steel valve and a life time warranty. It also can be used with any fuel type based on the stainless alloy valve construction. It is compatible with pump gasoline, E85, Q16, VP Import, FTW and other MTBE oxygenated race fuels! Is there a high impedance 2150cc that can do that on the market?

 

[str95tsi]

I also didnt see you did not list anything about power goals or your ends goals! We need this to help get you some where. Use this calculator to get an idea as to the correct size to buy http://fuelinjectorclinic.com/flow-calculator

THANK YOU, this was very helpful.
And yes power...goals...
Right now i'd be happy to see 400hp- 450hp out of the FP GREEN on clear 93 octane and 450hp-500hp on e85.
I think id be lucky if i get those #'s at this point but I've never ran this set-up before so i guess I'll just have to wate and see.
Its my daily driver so i can't really do what i want with it right now.
Pluss i may port the head more in the future so yah.
At some point when im dune with college, i may push it to the limits.
after i can afford to fix it if i break some stuff. Lol only not funny.

 

[Chumpaumpalumpa]

Ask your machinists how your valve guides look. Ethanol/alcohol based fuels wear the guides twice as fast. They also attract moisture which causes the corrosion. Also please tell me you got an OEM stub shaft. You could have major oiling problems if you didnt. You dont need that fuel rail if you want to save yourself some money. Also have the valves back cut if you can for better flow. Factory head thickness is 5.2" when measured from the outcroppings. You will need to run a thicker head gasket to compensate for what was machined off the head and the block. You dont need that fel-pro headgasket either. Factory MLS will seal just fine. Just find something that is the correct thickness. You have one oil port supplying the head and it shares duty with a headstud hole so make sure your teardrop is the correct depth. I'd go OEM timing belt as well over the kevlar. In fact, go ALL OEM timing components and water pump. I've seen the least failures from those. They have not been duplicated correctly. No one else quite has the timing stuff just right. With whatever injectors you run, you wont want to see above 80% duty cycle so take that into account. Why not standard ARP's or L19's if you want overkill? You could save yourself a bunch of money and get a cyclone manifold instead to make up for some lost spool from those cams. What is your target rev limit on E85 and pump gas? 1650s are more than adequate for 500WHP on E85.

 

[str95tsi]

Ask your machinists how your valve guides look. Ethanol/alcohol based fuels wear the guides twice as fast. Also please tell me you got an OEM stub shaft. You could have major oiling problems if you didnt. You dont need that fuel rail if you want to save yourself some money. Also have the valves back cut if you can for better flow.

Define oiling problems?
Fuel rail is like $129...so ... ???
My motor was pretty pricey .
my wife doesn't think its funny at all.
not trying to brag but it burned a hole in my pocket so to speak that's All im saying.
Why do you say i don't need the fuel rail?
Also it had a 3 Angel valve job performed...
is that what you mean by back cut?
Yes it was over built it a bit i know.
Also what lost spool???
Do explain id love to hear...

 

[Chumpaumpalumpa]

Define oiling problems? Fuel rail is like $129...so ... My motor was pretty pricey . my wife doesn't think its funny at all.
not trying to brag but it burned a hole in my pocket so to speak that's. All im saying. Why do you say i don't need the fuel rail? Also it had a 3 Angel valve job performed is that what you mean by back cut?

You need to make sure whatever stub shaft you have has an oil groove for the driven gear, otherwise it will not receive adequate oil supply and neither will the bearing surface of the stub shaft. If memory serves correct, the correct part is MD098626. Yup, found it http://www.jnztuning.com/product_info.php?name=OEM Oil Pump Stub Shaft&products_id=3020

Just stock fuel rail and -6an lines are good for over 500hp.

3 angle is typically 35, 40, and 65 degrees. Backcutting essentially rounds the typical valve job out by adding more angles. Basically, if metal was machined behind where the valve seat lap line is, it was back cut.

Edit: Wait why do you need a stub shaft if you're keeping your balance shafts?

Edit 2: Sorry its 3AM you're eliminating the balance shafts I see now. What you have should look like this https://www.extremepsi.com/store/product.php?productid=17650
Note the groove in the stubshaft. This is good. Now if you want to be extra safe, get the AMS race balance shafts to support the oil pump via the rear balance shaft bearing.
http://www.amsperformance.com/resources/technical-articles/62-why-ams-recommends-race-balance-shafts
http://www.amsperformance.com/cart/AMS-4G63-Race-Balance-Shaft-Eliminator-Kit.html

 

[str95tsi]

You need to make sure whatever stub shaft you have has an oil groove for the driven gear, otherwise it will not receive adequate oil supply and neither will the bearing surface of the stub shaft. If memory serves correct, the correct part is MD098626. Yup, found it http://www.jnztuning.com/product_info.php?name=OEM Oil Pump Stub Shaft&products_id=3020

Just stock fuel rail and -6an lines is good for over 500hp.

3 angle is typically 35, 40, and 65 degrees. Backcutting essentially rounds the typical valve job out by adding more angles. Basically, if metal was machined behind where the valve seat lap line is, it was back cut.

Edit: Wait why do you need a stub shaft if you're keeping your balance shafts?

Edit 2: Sorry its 3AM you're eliminating the balance shafts I see now. What you have should look like this https://www.extremepsi.com/store/product.php?productid=17650
Note the groove in the stubshaft. This is good. Now if you want to be extra safe, get the AMS race balance shafts to support the oil pump via the rear balance shaft bearing.
http://www.amsperformance.com/resources/technical-articles/62-why-ams-recommends-race-balance-shafts
http://www.amsperformance.com/cart/AMS-4G63-Race-Balance-Shaft-Eliminator-Kit.html

this is how the motor looks now

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so its safe to say i like it as it is for now just looking for good injections

 

[Chumpaumpalumpa]

some lost spool from those cams.

Kelfords are more aggressive than other 272 cams; they are closer to 284's. Ergo, you will spool later than a 264/272 combo or plain "regular" 272's. You should degree your cams if you haven't already just so you know exactly what's going on with your engine that you just payed big bucks for. You can get more spool back by you or your tuner fiddling with the cam gears. If you already have the parts on, oh well. We see guys do this all the time and come back crying that they blew their motor for one reason or another only to find out they used sub-OEM quality parts. It does look bitchin I'll give you that! I hope you have a clear cam gear cover to see all that. Where did you get you BSD?

so its safe to say i like it as it is for now just looking for good injections

Like it's been stated already, 1650's are more than enough for what you're doing. They'd be maxed around 560whp assuming you want to keep a safe (80%) duty cycle. Otherwise you could eek some more out of them. What are you doing for drivetrain stuff?

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Kelfords are more aggressive than other 272 cams; they are closer to 284's. Ergo, you will spool later than a 264/272 combo or plain "regular" 272's. You should degree your cams if you haven't already just so you know exactly what's going on with your engine that you just payed big bucks for. You can get more spool back by you or your tuner fiddling with the cam gears. If you already have the parts on, oh well. We see guys do this all the time and come back crying that they blew their motor for one reason or another only to find out they used sub-OEM quality parts. It does look bitchin I'll give you that! I hope you have a clear cam gear cover to see all that. Like it's been stated already, 1650's are more than enough for what you're doing. They'd be maxed around 560whp assuming you want to keep a safe duty cycle. Otherwise you could eek some more out of them. What are you doing for drivetrain stuff?

Them injectors wont be maxed out on E85 @90% idc as thats 725 ish hp gas is 945 ish hp so this is plenty big enough and thats all rated at 90% idc's so still good limits.


To the OP Any where from 1450cc will be fine but make sure they are duel fuel injectors as not all are best used with E85 and gas, if your spending alot already maybe get the high Z units and im working all this on FIC injectors so my answers could be wrong so it does depend on the brand you go with aswell that gets the final figures and flow rates

 

[Chumpaumpalumpa]

Them injectors wont be maxed out on E85 @90% idc as thats 725 ish hp gas is 945 ish hp so this is plenty big enough and thats all rated at 90% idc's so still good limits.

80% is a widely accepted safe IDC. According to the calculator which you provided (and which I am basing this off of since that apparently is what is determining what injector size he gets.) 42.6 psi and 90% IDC, you can make 624WHP with 1269cc on gas and 1649.7cc on E85. how did you come up with 725 and 945? Either way 1650's will be more than enough. At 85% IDC 1450's would be fine for 500whp yes. Brand can affect whether those actually flow more or less than advertised like you said so it would be beneficial to go with 1650's for more headroom and safer IDC. FIC's are good but their seals suck and almost always have a small leak.

 

[dexterholland04]

Don't bother going with low-impedance injectors over 1200cc. 1680cc high-impedance are more than enough for your pump-gas/E-85 goal. I can do $515 shipped for a set of high-impedance 1680cc injectors. This includes the plug and play adapters and the resistor pack termination plug needed to run high-impedance injectors.

Compare this to the $840 that other companies charge for the same injector...then they whack you an extra $22 for the resistor pack termination plug...unreal.

 

[Chumpaumpalumpa]

Don't bother going with low-impedance injectors over 1200cc. 1680cc high-impedance are more than enough for your pump-gas/E-85 goal. I can do $515 shipped for a set of high-impedance 1680cc injectors. This includes the plug and play adapters and the resistor pack termination plug needed to run high-impedance injectors.

Compare this to the $840 that other companies charge for the same injector...then they whack you an extra $22 for the resistor pack termination plug...unreal.

Sounds like a good deal You still on stock fuel rail? just -8 and -6 lines?

 

[dexterholland04]

Sounds like a good deal You still on stock fuel rail? just -8 and -6 lines?

It's a GREAT DEAL! And, guess what?! It's our EVERYDAY price.

I'm using an RCI rail, as well. It's not wholly necessary, since a stock rail could make 1000 whp with the right fittings.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

80% is a widely accepted safe IDC. According to the calculator which you provided (and which I am basing this off of since that apparently is what is determining what injector size he gets.) 42.6 psi and 90% IDC, you can make 624WHP with 1269cc on gas and 1649.7cc on E85. how did you come up with 725 and 945? Either way 1650's will be more than enough. At 85% IDC 1450's would be fine for 500whp yes. Brand can affect whether those actually flow more or less than advertised like you said so it would be beneficial to go with 1650's for more headroom and safer IDC. FIC's are good but their seals suck and almost always have a small leak.

Oh i went to their hp calculator and used that aswell to tell me the HP rating and im basing it off of 43.5 pressures as he is 2g with 1650cc it shows it as 945 crank power and 802whp @90% idc. So thats more then enough that same setup on E85 comes up as 725 crank and 616 whp so thats where i got my numbers from http://fuelinjectorclinic.com/hp-calculator i know 80 is safe but i always think 90 just like fic say is the best for them and keeping working well, as dont going too low mean it dont spray at its optimum spray pattern? Or am i wrong on this.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

The rci

It's a GREAT DEAL! And, guess what?! It's our EVERYDAY price.

I'm using an RCI rail, as well. It's not wholly necessary, since a stock rail could make 1000 whp with the right fittings.

fuel rail is amazing! Ive got one and bought all of the rci parts for the fuel system, great products

 

[str95tsi]

At this point medical bills stopped me from doing the other stuff i had pland.
ive got less money than I'd like to finnish the car.
kinda heart broken the shop thats has the car, gave me 2-weeks to get the rest of the stuff i need to get it running.
or ive got to store it in a storage unit.
so i guess I'll have to put the NEW MAGNUS V-3 cast intake manifold on hold because its like $999.99.
also i was going to dyno tune it but thats like $700 . so I'll do that when tax returns come back as well.
I was going to add a fuel cell $840. It also will have to wate along with.
turbo xs dual stage boost controller $200, zaklee corp clear cam cover $75,
megan racing short shifter $75,
pro-MAF or SD but all that will have to wate till tax returns.

i was planning on buying this stuff NOW.
ECM Link V-3 $634,
MTX-L wideband $180,
tial 50mm bov $254,
MAGNUS fuel rail $129,
walbro 450lph fuel pump $129,
MAGNUS fuel pressure regular or a aeromotive A1000 13101 $164,
fuel injector clinic 1650cc high-Z injectors $823
and a south bend ss-xpp full faced ceramic segmented clutch $585...
Thats like $2,754.15

Any ways, im kinda frustrated about this hole 2 week thing but any way you guys&gals can find this stuff cheaper than i did?

 

[str95tsi]

Don't bother going with low-impedance injectors over 1200cc. 1680cc high-impedance are more than enough for your pump-gas/E-85 goal. I can do $515 shipped for a set of high-impedance 1680cc injectors. This includes the plug and play adapters and the resistor pack termination plug needed to run high-impedance injectors.

Compare this to the $840 that other companies charge for the same injector...then they whack you an extra $22 for the resistor pack termination plug...unreal.

What brand injectors?

 

[Chumpaumpalumpa]

At this point medical bills stopped me from doing the other stuff i had pland and ive got less money than I'd like to finnish the car kinda heart broken the shop thats had the car gave me 2-weeks to get the rest of the stuff i need to get it running or ive got to store it in a storage unit so i guess I'll have to put the NEW MAGNUS V-3 cast intake manifold on hold because its like $999.99, also i was going to dyno tune it but thats like $700, add a fuel cell $840, turbo xs dual stage boost controller $200, zaklee corp clear cam cover $75, megan racing short shifter $75, pro-MAF or SD but all that will have to wate till tax returns.

pluss i was planning on buying an ecm link $634, MTX-L wideband $180, tial 50mm bov $254, MAGNUS fuel rail $129, walbro 450lph fuel pump $129, MAGNUS fuel pressure regular or a aeromotive A1000 1310 $164, fuel injector clinic 1650cc high-Z injectors $823 and a south bend ss-xpp full faced ceramic segmented clutch $585... Thats like $2,754.15 any ways, im kinda frustrated about this hole 2 week thing but any way you guys&gals can find this stuff cheaper than i did?

Let's cut some costs. You absolutely don't need that Intake manifold. -$1000 there. You don't need that fuel rail. Some nice fitting will do fine on the stock one. -$182. You don't need a fuel cell? -$840 Injectors from dexterholland04 -$308+. Thats a stupid amount for a tune. I'd drive down here and have RRE do it. Sam will do it for $500 if he doesn't have to screw with the car fixing it. Just turn up boost and tune. -$100 (factoring in gas). You don't need that permatorque HG -$50-$100. For a grand total offfffff $1,700 give or take.

 

[str95tsi]

Kelfords are more aggressive than other 272 cams; they are closer to 284's. Ergo, you will spool later than a 264/272 combo or plain "regular" 272's. You should degree your cams if you haven't already just so you know exactly what's going on with your engine that you just payed big bucks for. You can get more spool back by you or your tuner fiddling with the cam gears. If you already have the parts on, oh well. We see guys do this all the time and come back crying that they blew their motor for one reason or another only to find out they used sub-OEM quality parts. It does look bitchin I'll give you that! I hope you have a clear cam gear cover to see all that. Where did you get you BSD? Like it's been stated already, 1650's are more than enough for what you're doing. They'd be maxed around 560whp assuming you want to keep a safe (80%) duty cycle. Otherwise you could eek some more out of them. What are you doing for drivetrain stuff?

When i had the motor built i was going to run a BorgWarnert fmw s362-efr .70Ar 4 twin scrool,
precision ball bearing gen 2,
holset HX 35 or 40 t3 twin scrool,
ball bearing FP black turbos
one of those was what i wanted to use. Thuss is why kelford 272 cams
it made sense for all of the turbos above

but my wifes vehicle blew the head gasket & water pump, struts went out, breaks needed replaced as in every thing drums rotors, lines, calipers, pads alignment needed done, windshield cracked, tiers needed replaced, motor and transmission mounts went out all in 3 months. And after all that got fixed.
she still got a new FJ cruiser and her old car just sits waiting for someone to buy it.
Not that im happy about it but.
Due to all the $ put into her car stopping me from getting what i wanted as far as turbo
Sorry for my rant ...

so my plans for a big turbo and top mount exhaust manifold got delayed.
now im stuck with the FP GREEN.
At the price i got it i felt like it would work for the engine break in period.
I'll upgrade to something bigger later on in life.

 

[Chumpaumpalumpa]

When i had the motor built i was oing to run a BorgWarnert fmw s362-efr .70Ar 4 twin scrool, precision ball bearing gen 2, holset HX 35 or 40 t3 twin scrool, ball bearing FP black turbos was what i wanted to use but my wifes vehicle blew the head gasket & water pump, struts went out, breaks needed replaced as in every thing drums rotors, lines, calipers, pads alignment needed done, windshield cracked, tiers needed replaced, motor and transmission mounts went out all in 3 months. And after all that she still got a new FJ cruiser and her old car just sits waiting for someone to buy it. Not that im happy about it but. so my plans for a big turbo and top mount exhaust manifold got delayed. And now im stuck with the FP GREEN and at the price i got it i felt like it would work for the engine break in period.

Alright? What are you saying, I don't follow? You just spent a ton and need to cut costs? I made post for that. Use the motoman method and break the motor in on low boost. You're gunna need to do something about the trans and probable tcase if you plan on launching or driving the car hard.

 

[str95tsi]

Let's cut some costs. You absolutely don't need that Intake manifold. -$1000 there. You don't need that fuel rail. Some nice fitting will do fine on the stock one. -$182. You don't need a fuel cell? -$840 Injectors from dexterholland04 -$308+. Thats a stupid amount for a tune. I'd drive down here and have RRE do it. Sam will do it for $500 if he doesn't have to screw with the car fixing it. Just turn up boost and tune. -$100 (factoring in gas). You don't need that permatorque HG -$50-$100. For a grand total offfffff $1,700 give or take.

Ive already used the Head Gasket...
Fuel cell is not needed so im doing that later same with the intake manifold, throttle body.
ecmlink $634,
MTX-L wideband $180,
tial 50mm bov $254,
MAGNUS fuel rail $129,
walbro 450lph fuel pump$129, MAGNUS fuel pressure regular or aaeromotive A1000 1310 $164,
F.I.C.1650cc high-Z injectors $823
and a south bend ss-xpp full faced ceramic segmented clutch $585...
Thats like $2,754.15 any ways,
any way you guys&gals can find this stuff cheaper than i did?

 

[Chumpaumpalumpa]

Why are you stuck on using that fuel rail?

 

[dexterholland04]

What brand injectors?

I sell injectors for RCI, all of our high-impedance injectors are Bosch injectors.