bolt on slowboy gt35r..good or bad ??

[Initial DSM]

i'm not talking about my 95 nt with turbo.the car i'm posting about is a 1992 awd laser

 

[GVR4592]

That just proves my case even more. If your trying to run this setup on street and the .48a/r spooled like that then the t3 housing will spool even slower. Not to mention that like you said it's all in the tune and stock ecu with old school safc is not exactly up to date tuning equipment but they were just trying to prove a point if you read the thread that the bolt on small housing can make big power and it did. If you not trying to run this on the street I would go t4 anyway but if your going to be running this turbo on your dd car thgen bolt on housing is better spool wise and easier on the pocket that's my point. The fact that the t3 housing will make more power is irrelevent because the sacrafise you have to make for that power isn't worth it on a street car. We are dancing around the same idea over and over this is pointless.


Power:
mitsu < bolt on(bullseye,SBR,PTE) < t3 < t4

Spool:
t4 < t3 < bolt on <mitsu

Everyone here is their own person and can descide how much they're willing to sacrafise for power and a person's goals are also a factor. I want to make 500whp and have a car that spools between 4300 and 4600rpms I have that and I got it via a bolt on hosuing.

I understand what you are saying, but the crappy powerband of the small housing turns me off. It did make great peak power, but that's all it did. It didn't really make any noticeable power until after 5500 rpm's and it was just a huge spike then it dropped. Not to mention it took over 40 psi and a 2.3 to get their big numbers. It just doesn't seem like it would be very fun to drive. A big peak number isn't going to get you down the track faster than a wide powerband. Look at the sbr dyno chart and you can see that you would have to operate the engine between 6,000 and 7000rpms to keep it in the powerband. A 1000 rpm powerband would be so shitty to drive. For comparison that would be like shifting a stock dsm around 4500-5000 rpm's.

Check out the thread: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163528&highlight=slowboy+gt35r

This isn't really a good comparison but a nice powerband (except for the little torque spike) with a GT35R should look like this
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147500&highlight=torquefreaks

Or the 3065: http://dvdtfab.com/mikesdyno.htm


See how they maintain power around the peak? They don't just drop like a rock. They both make

 

[Slippi84]

I understand what you are saying, but the crappy powerband of the small housing turns me off. It did make great peak power, but that's all it did. It didn't really make any noticeable power until after 5500 rpm's and it was just a huge spike then it dropped. Not to mention it took over 40 psi and a 2.3 to get their big numbers. It just doesn't seem like it would be very fun to drive. A big peak number isn't going to get you down the track faster than a wide powerband. Look at the sbr dyno chart and you can see that you would have to operate the engine between 6,000 and 7000rpms to keep it in the powerband. A 1000 rpm powerband would be so shitty to drive. For comparison that would be like shifting a stock dsm around 4500-5000 rpm's.

Check out the thread: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163528&highlight=slowboy+gt35r

This isn't really a good comparison but a nice powerband (except for the little torque spike) with a GT35R should look like this
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147500&highlight=torquefreaks

Or the 3065: http://dvdtfab.com/mikesdyno.htm


See how they maintain power around the peak? They don't just drop like a rock. They both make

Ok this is going nowhere cause none of you are seeing the big picture. However bad you think the bolt on hosuing's powerband is the the t3 is only gonna mke it worse. A t3 doesn't expand your power band it just makes you flow better at higher rpms but the rpm that it starts to flow is higher so you have to rev even higher to see the same power band as the bolt on housing. It's a trade off.

 

[oztofrdm]

Im not gonna argue with Slippi since its not gonna go anywhere but can we all agree on that fact that he needs to get a T04S or T04Anti-Surge compressor housing. Because with the bolt on it is going to have Really bad compressor surge.

 

[suicidal2af]

Ok this is going nowhere cause none of you are seeing the big picture. However bad you think the bolt on hosuing's powerband is the the t3 is only gonna mke it worse. A t3 doesn't expand your power band it just makes you flow better at higher rpms but the rpm that it starts to flow is higher so you have to rev even higher to see the same power band as the bolt on housing. It's a trade off.

Here's the part that you're missing.

Larger compressors move your powerband higher in the rev range. Regardless of turbine housing. If you hit peak power at 5500, but by 6500 the exhaust housing is choking it, you have a useless powerband. If the larger housing makes peak power at 5800, but continues making power until 8500, you're going to have a much faster car, even if peak power is identical.

Saying that x car made y power with z mod is an absolutely absurd argument. Someone has gone 11's in a fwd turbo with the t25 and stock fuel system. So following the above-stated xyz argument, there's no reason to upgrade your turbo unless you want 10's, right?

Yeah, they may have made 600whp at 37psi. Awesome. Swap to a T3 and watch them make 700whp at 37psi.

 

[black91awdturbo]

Here's the part that you're missing.

Larger compressors move your powerband higher in the rev range. Regardless of turbine housing. If you hit peak power at 5500, but by 6500 the exhaust housing is choking it, you have a useless powerband. If the larger housing makes peak power at 5800, but continues making power until 8500, you're going to have a much faster car, even if peak power is identical.

Saying that x car made y power with z mod is an absolutely absurd argument. Someone has gone 11's in a fwd turbo with the t25 and stock fuel system. So following the above-stated xyz argument, there's no reason to upgrade your turbo unless you want 10's, right?

Yeah, they may have made 600whp at 37psi. Awesome. Swap to a T3 and watch them make 700whp at 37psi.

This is exactly what most have been trying to say the whole thread!! And what I ment when I was saying the dsm housing is a BIG choke point! Also as he said yes it takes a little longer to spool it but when you have 3k of power band it doesnt really matter cause you have peak power for much longer. Also if you just look at how many psi it takes the dsm housing to get big power numbers and look at the graph. Then look at the t3 varient and see how many more hp they have and the graph at the same psi you will see what we mean. And here is a quote from Fp on this same topic

To thank you SBR boys for visiting my FPCam thread, I will visit yours

That .48 housing does just what I'd expect it to do above 6200RPM, Drop like a rock. Which is a shame on a sweet high flow CHRA like that GT35R. I've run .82 housing on the same CHRA and got the same spool up on 2.0 motors. What is up with that turbine housing you got there? Maybe you just need to straigten out the tune up?

Boost on Bros
Robert

 

[suicidal2af]

This is exactly what most have been trying to say the whole thread!! And what I ment when I was saying the dsm housing is a BIG choke point! Also as he said yes it takes a little longer to spool it but when you have 3k of power band it doesnt really matter cause you have peak power for much longer. Also if you just look at how many psi it takes the dsm housing to get big power numbers and look at the graph. Then look at the t3 varient and see how many more hp they have and the graph at the same psi you will see what we mean. And here is a quote from Fp on this same topic

To expand on this, peak power really doesn't mean anything. Power under the curve is what you want to look at. Oftentimes, cars with higher peak power run slower times because they only make their power for a short period. Hondas are a perfect example. They don't make much peak torque or hp, but they can still do low 14's/high 13's in a similiar weight car. Why? Because they make their torque over a VERY wide rev range, which lets them take advantage of gearing.

It's pretty much common knowledge that the mitsu-style housings don't flow as well. The reason you see such a large number of them is because of price[/]. You're more likely to sell one $1000 turbo than a $1000 turbo, $400 manifold, $300 downpipe, $400 external wastegate. And people are willing to sacrifice some power to get that convenience, especially since they can make it up with other mods.

 

[Slippi84]

You show me a car with proper mods and a turbo this size that isn't pullin till 8500

Trust me a bolt on housing is better for a dd then a t3 housing period.

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

Trust me

Why should we? You haven't shown anyone any useful information to back your point up.

 

[Mark90gst]

well this post is way off topic anyway, Im going t4/t67 with a full race header, tail 44 and a 3 inch v band db and thats all she wrote on this book, but im not scared of a little lag like some people cause i look at it this way
boost at 4k power starts to drop by 7k mabye
boost at 5.5k power drop at 9k

 

[Slippi84]

Why should we? You haven't shown anyone any useful information to back your point up.

Fine don't trust me go get your t3 housing and run it on your dd and then i'll be sure to comment in yoru post when you say something along the lines of "Slow spool what do i do "

Besides I haven't seen anyone come on here and say anything factualy agaist my statement just opinions and internet research. Anyone actualy run a big turbo with bolt on housing that has any information to put in that goes against what I'm saying feel free to chime in.

 

[suicidal2af]

Fine don't trust me go get your t3 housing and run it on your dd and then i'll be sure to comment in yoru post when you say something along the lines of "Slow spool what do i do "

Besides I haven't seen anyone come on here and say anything factualy agaist my statement just opinions and internet research. Anyone actualy run a big turbo with bolt on housing that has any information to put in that goes against what I'm saying feel free to chime in.

The mitsu-style housing is an old, anitquated design. Look at a newer mitsubishi turbo, like the TD05HR-16G series. They feature a much larger nozzle area(the evos, depending on model/trim, go from 9.5cm2 to 11cm2). They spool just as fast as an s16g, but flow closer to a 20G.

T3 housings don't hurt spool at all. A friend of mine had a B18B turbo del sol. He had a T3/T04E 60-1. It spooled in the 4300-4500 range -- on a 1.8. That's about the same place that our 2.0 spools it.

What you need to grasp is that the more power you make, the more exhaust gas you produce. Go blow really hard through a straw. Now do the same thing through a coffee stirrer. Same compressor(your lungs). One is going to breathre fairly freely, the other is going to be a bi*** to blow through. That's what a mitsu housing does.

If this weren't the case, MHI wouldn't have seen fit to create larger hotsides, ala TD06/TD06H/TD07, etc.

 

[black91awdturbo]

There are plenty of people that run a big turbo's on dd but that isnt what we are talking about here. The bottom line is you are going off SBR did on a built stroker, do you have this same set up as sbr? Have you made the power sbr did? No and most nobody will the fact of the mater is the t3 housing is a better housing and makes more power. Yes it costs more to use but is it worth it hell yes it is. And the t3 hosuing wont slow the spool as much as your mind will let you believe. If you dont think so go ahead and look at the dyno's with the t3 housing and you will see.

 

[Slippi84]

I hear a bucnh of you guys saying stuff but I don't see any first hand experience just ideas. What YOU don't understand is that bolt on hosuing is not the same as a mitsu housing. The bolt on hosuings have more R&D into them so they flow more and are still able to be bolted on. The "Fact of the matter" is that a t3 housing is great but is not better if you have a street car and that is the point. Now not only are you guys trying to compare diffrent talons/eclipse's to each other which you can't do your trying to use a diffrent car all together to justify spool That del sol has higher compression and a whoel diffrent platform so you can't compare. I still haven't heard from anyone dd a t3 gt35r. The few people that are ok with 5k full boost run the t3 housings if your not then I would suggest going with the bolt on housing if you disagree run the t3 it's your car do what you want. That's all I have to say I have already made my argument and all i'm hearing is the same statements over and over t3 flows better so better spool and better powerband anyone want to prove it feel free.

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

My 60-1/T31 with a BEP hotside hit 25PSI by ~4200 with DSMLink and a half assed (real rich) toon. Let's say 4000 full boost running properly.

A friend's SC61 (GT40 compressor wheel, T350 exhaust wheel, .63 T3 housing, stock-runnered 1G exhaust manifold with adapter plate) hits 21PSI by ~4500 with an AFC setup.

Both 3rd gear pulls, both stock engine with very similar compression, both TiAL 38mm gates, both FP2 cams, he has a JMFab intake.

I would gladly trade off a few hundred RPM to run a bigger compressor and exhaust wheel, not to mention I have the ability to manipulate timing maps to aid in spool. I was also on a 3.5" exhaust and a ported EVOIII manifold, versus his 3"/stock 1G setup. Both cars have 3.5" intakes.

You say "the R&D is better for the bolt on housings." Based on what information? Have you seen the cross cut BEP housing?

Let's see some of these 500awhp spool monsters you speak of.

 

[suicidal2af]

That del sol has higher compression and a whoel diffrent platform so you can't compare.

Built motor with 8.5:1. It was running 32lbs, along with a set of fairly aggressive cams. B18B is non-vtec.

But you know what? SBR's setup was a 2.3, which is a totally different platform. So yeah, if we can compare their setup, then we can compare the del sol.

 

[suicidal2af]

Both 3rd gear pulls, both stock engine with very similar compression, both TiAL 38mm gates, both FP2 cams, he has a JMFab intake.

Also keep in mind that a SMIM gives better topend, while hurting lowend, and will oftentimes make you spool a few hundred RPM later.

You say "the R&D is better for the bolt on housings." Based on what information? Have you seen the cross cut BEP housing?

A lot of the holset guys aren't too terribly thrilled with the BEP housing.

 

[black91awdturbo]

Eactly you are the one camparing other dsm's for your info you are the one that keeps saying well the bolt on made 600whp. Last time I checked that was sbr that did that and not you, like I said look around for some dyno sheets there are plent to be found and you will see that the spool isnt as bad as you think.

 

[Slippi84]

Ok fine no more comparing I challange any of you to run a t3 housing and then run a bolt on housing on w/e turbo you have and your running now and show logs and I will bet you anything the diffrence in airflow will not merrit the upgrade for the average dsmer. The guy that said his 60-1 t3 spooled to 25 or w/e boost by 4500 I hope you realise turbos like the scm61 and gt35r and my gt14 are DEF bigger and spool slower. If we were talkin about a 60-1 then MAYBE you could say spool would be something you could live with on a 2.0 stock compression motor but a turbo like the gt35r and such no. I will let you speculators and doubters say what you want and when you actually have first hand experience with a turbo this size with a bolt on housing than anything you say will have merit. I own a turbo of which we speak and from what it looks like i am one of the only ones posting that can say so

 

[Slippi84]

http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=33&

Just in case you guys aren't familiar with the gt14 as it's not a belly button turbo.

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

Ok fine no more comparing I challange any of you to run a t3 housing and then run a bolt on housing on w/e turbo you have and your running now and show logs and I will bet you anything the diffrence in airflow will not merrit the upgrade for the average dsmer. The guy that said his 60-1 t3 spooled to 25 or w/e boost by 4500 I hope you realise turbos like the scm61 and gt35r and my gt14 are DEF bigger and spool slower. If we were talkin about a 60-1 then MAYBE you could say spool would be something you could live with on a 2.0 stock compression motor but a turbo like the gt35r and such no. I will let you speculators and doubters say what you want and when you actually have first hand experience with a turbo this size with a bolt on housing than anything you say will have merit. I own a turbo of which we speak and from what it looks like i am one of the only ones posting that can say so

My 60-1 will spool FASTER than a friends SC61 (which, since apparently you can't read, has a GT40 compressor wheel (GASP just like the GT35R) and a large T350 exhaust wheel,) and yet, even with his SMIM which SLOWS spool, he's still only a few hundred RPM behind me.

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

By the way, I'm still waiting for these super fast spooling 500awhp cars.

 

[Slippi84]

My 60-1 will spool FASTER than a friends SC61 (which, since apparently you can't read, has a GT40 compressor wheel (GASP just like the GT35R) and a large T350 exhaust wheel,) and yet, even with his SMIM which SLOWS spool, he's still only a few hundred RPM behind me.

a 50 trim spools to full boost around 3800 and a 16g spools to full boost around 3200. I guess that means that they spool close to each other


A few hundred rpms is a big diffrence and in this case the diffrence between a bolt on housing being good for a dd and a t3 housing not



By the way why do you keep askin for 500whp fast spoolin cars??

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

a 50 trim spools to full boost around 3800 and a 16g spools to full boost around 3200. I guess that means that they spool close to each other


A few hundred rpms is a big diffrence and in this case the diffrence between a bolt on housing being good for a dd and a t3 housing not



By the way why do you keep askin for 500whp fast spoolin cars??

300RPM is nothing in the real world. Take on top of that, the fact that his turbo has a higher max flow rating, a better flowing hotside, and a SMIM.

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

I keep asking for 500awhp dyno/logs because you claim T3 cars are unbearable for daily driving, and that bolt on housings will spool much faster than T3 stuff and still make 500awhp.