block-fitting size for turbo coolant on the 7-bolt?

[Jafro]

Hi guys. Searched first despite the hideously-slow performance, so bear with me and thanks for taking the time to look at this.

There is this thread which went un-resolved.

And then there's this thread discussing plugging it in order to plumb a GT35R on a 7-bolt where they talk all around it, about how bad it leaked, and alternatives to using it, but nobody states the size.

I'm trying to put a -AN fitting directly to that port in the block with the end result being -AN coolant lines for the turbo. I only have a Big16g, but I want -AN lines. The turbo coolant feed comes from a nipple on the water pipe, while the return is on the block. I think that's which is which on a 7-bolt... I don't want to plug the hole, I just want to use it with different fittings. Swapping that fitting out would give me an extra 7/8" of clearance and I don't want to break it if I can't use it.

Here's a pic of the fitting. It's got the factory line (with its finger in the #4 freeze plug's butt) bolted into it. My block was powder coated with the fitting in-place so I know it's going to be a bi*** to remove.

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[Rob10_99]

That hawt! Hope you can keep it clean like that.
If you have a good fitting store around I'm sure you can get that bolt out and compare and get what you need.
I THINK its the same bolt as the power steering banjo as well. I found banjo bolts made from titanium, made for bikes mostly.

Here's a link to a good 2g bolt/torque list,
ColumbusDSM - 2G Turbo FWD Bolt & Fastener Wizard

 

[Jafro]

That hawt! Hope you can keep it clean like that.
If you have a good fitting store around I'm sure you can get that bolt out and compare and get what you need.
I THINK its the same bolt as the power steering banjo as well. I found banjo bolts made from titanium, made for bikes mostly.

Here's a link to a good 2g bolt/torque list,
ColumbusDSM - 2G Turbo FWD Bolt & Fastener Wizard

Thanks, yeah, it stays this way while I keep it running. It's a shitload of work, but completely worth it to me. I just pulled the motor to re-polish it a few weeks ago and I'm making a ton of changes and upgrades right now. There are videos of the previous GSX build, and another project at youtube user: Jafromobile

The banjo bolt is the same size as the turbo's coolant fittings, it's a 14mm x 1.5 x .875", and I even have the mitsu part numbers for those... But it threads into yet another female-to-male fitting that's then threaded into the block. It's the adapter fitting's male portion I'm trying to figure out the size for. It's less noticeable in the picture because it's powder coated black. I don't want to break that fitting or the finish if I can't get the right part first, because powder coated bolts (or fittings) usually don't come out nicely.

I looked through that list. Thanks, that's handy... but it's not in there.

If I can't get a ?-to-6AN coupler to gain the extra clearance, then for $50 more, I can get a 14mm-to-6AN banjo fitting + swivel adapter + anodized 14mm banjo bolt (that's 1/4" too long, & cut it down)... but that's clunky. I'd rather have the extra clearance without that fitting, and eliminate 3 potential leaks by not using a banjo bolt.

 

[Rob10_99]

Yeah I looked through it twice and didn't see what your asking for, doh...
Looking for something like this?

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[Killa_dsm]

Sorry I don't have much to add to help, but I have to say holy crap that is bling right there! Looks great man!

 

[snowborder714]

Send Flash a PM as he's done this.

 

[Flash]

I got your PM, but I thought it was best to reply in the thread so anyone else could see.

I believe I ordered this fitting. I measured my broken one just now and it appears to be a 16mm. So get the 16x1.5 fitting to 6AN from ATP Turbo and you should be fine.

Fitting, Metric 16mm to 6AN, Male to Male (For coolant or oil): atpturbo.com

You first need to remove the banjo bolt and then try to remove the other fitting that screws into the block. If you break the fitting in the block like I did, don't panic because it can be removed. I removed mine through the combination of an Easy-Out and plenty of heat. I then cleaned out the threads and added some thread sealer on them and threaded it in.
Now the important part is torquing is down! Torque the fitting in the block down to like 45-50 ft-lbs. It took me 3 attempts to get it right. I recommend an Earl's -AN pressure tester kit that, I bought it after the 2nd failed attempt. It was definitely money well spent.

Now, someone said it's a BSPT threaded fitting, I guess it has worked for them (if you can track down a BSPT - 6AN fitting). The crush washer is the way the bolt seals. My fitting doesn't leak and the fitting threaded right in.

 

[turbosax2]

The threads in the block are 3/8" BSPT. I highly doubt you will ever find a BSPT to AN fitting, but feel free to prove me wrong. You could use an NPT to AN fitting there, however, and either thread it in as-is or run an NPT tap through the threads first. I'm not sure why Flash's fitting fits well, but if it works it works I guess. The 16x1.5 threads must be close enough to 3/8".

 

[Jafro]

Fitting, Metric 16mm to 6AN, Male to Male (For coolant or oil): atpturbo.com

It... I ordered... , thanks man, you have no idea how much time you just saved me. Actually you do. Uh... You know exactly how much time you saved me. I can't thank you enough!

They had all the other parts I needed so I just stimulated their economy.

 

[Jafro]

The threads in the block are 3/8" BSPT. I highly doubt you will ever find a BSPT to AN fitting, but feel free to prove me wrong. You could use an NPT to AN fitting there, however, and either thread it in as-is or run an NPT tap through the threads first. I'm not sure why Flash's fitting fits well, but if it works it works I guess. The 16x1.5 threads must be close enough to 3/8".

BSPT to -AN does not exist. I will neither try to prove you or Google wrong.

But lookie here. I dug up the dimensions on both M16 and 3/8 BSPT thread specs.

Size TPI Pitch DIA. LENGTH
3/8 19 1.337 16.662 6.4

M16 16.9 1.5 16.5 (recommended bore)

My guess is the hole doesn't get near an inch deep, BSPT is tapered and fifteen hundredths bigger so those 2 extra threads don't count? Wow that's close. I'm sure it will work, but there's no question it's getting cemented in there. I hope I can get mine out without destroying the powder coating or burning down the garage.

 

[Flash]

The threads in the block are 3/8" BSPT. I highly doubt you will ever find a BSPT to AN fitting, but feel free to prove me wrong. You could use an NPT to AN fitting there, however, and either thread it in as-is or run an NPT tap through the threads first. I'm not sure why Flash's fitting fits well, but if it works it works I guess. The 16x1.5 threads must be close enough to 3/8".

BSPT to -AN does not exist. I will neither try to prove you or Google wrong.

But lookie here. I dug up the dimensions on both M16 and 3/8 BSPT thread specs.

Size TPI Pitch DIA. LENGTH
3/8 19 1.337 16.662 6.4

M16 16.9 1.5 16.5 (recommended bore)

My guess is the hole doesn't get near an inch deep, BSPT is tapered and fifteen hundredths bigger so those 2 extra threads don't count? Wow that's close. I'm sure it will work, but there's no question it's getting cemented in there. I hope I can get mine out without destroying the powder coating or burning down the garage.

Good information in here. I trust what Turbosax says, so he is worth listening to and I know he is right on this one. But it is just odd how it threaded right in and isnt leaking. Well I know it's not leaking because of the crush washer, NPT seals on the threads. Now that the topic has come up again, if I were to do it again I would run an NPT tap through the threads and run an NPT to 6AN. I doubt it would make a difference though.

 

[Jafro]

I agree a NPT tap would work better, but this fitting is going to work fine when it gets here. It's not going to leak. I'll admit I'm terrified that the old one is going to be seized into the block and snap off when I hit it with the snap-on. But that's just me being a poosy.

I'm going to set the wrench at 47 lbs and honk it in there with some thread sealant if you're sure it can handle that much torque. Maybe even just go ahead and just do it three more times and get it over with so I don't have to buy that pressure tool.

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[Rob10_99]

This is what I was trying to find earlier,
JEGS High Performance - 361-807691

 

[90rslaser]

holy #### im blind meow. who the hell had the time and patience to polish your head like that? ive always wanted to do that to mine, but as i said i dont have the freakin patience. sorry, a little off topic. pm me of who can do that for me. thanks

 

[Jafro]

holy #### im blind meow. who the hell had the time and patience to polish your head like that? ive always wanted to do that to mine, but as i said i dont have the freakin patience. sorry, a little off topic. pm me of who can do that for me. thanks

I don't mind answering you here because I've already got PM's about it asking me where to get this done that I haven't answered. You'll understand why I'm being so particular about a single fitting...

You'll have to polish it yourself.

You sort of have to if you want this. I don't think anyone would be looking or willing to do this kind of tedious work even for payment, or that anyone could even afford it if they do find a willing victim. You have to be insane to wish the maintenance necessary upon yourself to keep it this way. Once you start, you can't stop. It took 2 months to do the initial polish for just the head, wet sanding it by hand every night for several hours in my kitchen sink after I got home from work, making my own tools to reach the tough spots and spending every weekend on it. Sanding aluminum to a mirror smooth finish actually can not be done with power tools because the tools leave tracks where hand sanding will not, and they won't reach tight spaces. I wore my fingerprints off before the first week was through. It's filthy cuticle-splitting work and you will learn that Aluminum can actually stain skin (and it itches). I even had a girlfriend at the time and managed to keep her through that process (only to realize later that I should have tossed her away many years ago).

My best advice is don't do it, but if you have to, you have to have a "whatever it takes" attitude about it. Polished finishes do not add value or horsepower to a car. I pretty much have to pull the engine to clean it. If you drive the car or if it ever sees rain or sleeps outdoors, don't. Winter driving is straight out of the question because salt destroys the finish-on contact. So does dying batteries, humidity, fingerprints, coolant, exhaust leaks, time, etc... I'm trying Zoop Seal on it this time around and hope that reduces the up-keep necessary to keep it shiny.

You can check out the previous build on YouTube, but so much has changed since then that you won't even recognize it by this 2006-2007 footage.

YouTube - 2009-02-03 GSX Build History

Yes. I polished the power steering pump... and the EGR valve. So that's why this fitting is necessary. I could have left the OEM lines for free, but I'd rather spend $150 in -AN fittings making one tiny 3/8" coolant line "bling" simply because the factory bolts rust.

 

[99gst_racer]

hmmm.... a 3/8" NPT fitting threaded into that port on the block nicely for me. I did it just for a better solution for looping the coolant lines. I know I have a picture somewhere, so I'll see if I can dig it up.


Here's the only picture I could find. This is a basic 3/8" NPT to -6 AN steel adapter fitting threaded into the block, and a 90* -6 barb fitting attached to it. It's never leaked a drop in a year and a half.

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[Jafro]

Alright, it's time for fitting info overload. I used a 1/2" impact w/22mm socket with only 50 psi to slowly and gradually knock the OEM fitting out of the hole. Worked like a charm despite the powder coat.

The fittings are clearly different diameters, but it does thread right in. The M16 fitting is straight thread, while the OEM fitting is tapered (that's the T in BSPT). I measured the distance of the valleys of 5 threads, and it's off by less than a third of a thread. The hole's only about a 1/2" deep. This will not fit well in the thread area because the thread overlap will leave room for seepage, but the rubberized gasket that came with the fitting seals outrageously well and as a result, will indeed work fine without using a tap.

I whole-heartedly agree that tapping the block for a NPT fitting/-AN adapter is the ideal solution. If you don't have that tap, just be sure to use some thread sealant and honk that fitting down tight as Flash recommended. I'll probably JB Weld it unless someone here strongly protests...

PS: This might be good to have in the shortblock tech forum. Nice work, guys!

 

[Rob10_99]

The only issue is that your AN fitting is not an NPT(national pipe thread). Now that AN fitting DOES have an O-ring washer or it should. But that doesn't always seal well. I would use some hondabond on the threads for some extra sealing.
Looks like your going with that 90* 6an then?

 

[Jafro]

Yep. Summit racing is already shipping it. I bought banjo fitting assemblies from the place that Flash posted because they looked better for this application and cost less than buying separate banjos and bolts from summit.

More than anything I'm doing this for cosmetic reasons.

Hondabond is formulated for aluminum engines because it's non-acidic. I'd have to buy that on-line because I don't think I'm going to find that off-the-shelf anywhere around here. Neither the block or the fitting are aluminum, though. Wouldn't liquid Teflon work? I also have Grey RTV. I rethought the whole JB Weld thing already, no-go.

 

[Rob10_99]

JB weld? !
Yeah, thats why hondabond is soo good, it also bonds incredibly well to almost anything. Must have an oil free surface though. You should be able to score some at a honda dealership =)

 

[Flash]

The threads in the block are 3/8" BSPT. I highly doubt you will ever find a BSPT to AN fitting, but feel free to prove me wrong. You could use an NPT to AN fitting there, however, and either thread it in as-is or run an NPT tap through the threads first. I'm not sure why Flash's fitting fits well, but if it works it works I guess. The 16x1.5 threads must be close enough to 3/8".

I just did. I deserve a cookie or something.

3230-6-6AN 3/8 BSP Male - 6AN Male Adapter: Steel

Pegasus - BSP Male to AN or NPT Male Adapter

Check out the proper dowty sealing washer for it too!
Pegasus - Dowty Sealing Washer for BSP Ports

 

[turbosax2]

Way to prove me wrong!! Now somebody needs to pick that up and verify it is the right size

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[Jafro]

I just did. I deserve a cookie or something.

3230-6-6AN 3/8 BSP Male - 6AN Male Adapter: Steel

Pegasus - BSP Male to AN or NPT Male Adapter

Check out the proper dowty sealing washer for it too!
Pegasus - Dowty Sealing Washer for BSP Ports

I was going to say "PM me your address and I'll send you one". Didn't think of posting a .jpg, but if you're hungry... you know what to do.

I'll order a few and see. It turns out that the Greddy catch can uses the exact same fitting. I screwed the block fitting into it and it's a perfect fit. I have -8AN breather ports welded to my valve cover and don't want to use the "cheater" fittings on the catch can, so these will come in VERY handy. Was going to get the catch can drilled and tapped for NPT, but this saves me the trouble.

THANKS!

Here's an updated pic for the curious. Motor's going in this weekend.

 

[Apeximprt2nr]

Hey guys, I know this is an old thread, but maybe you can help me out.

I bought a new 2.3 block from SBR with a bolt in the hole where the fitting goes into. So, I purchased a new coolant fitting from Mitsu. (I snapped the one on the old block) and when I went to thread it into the new block, it didn't fit. The hole in the block was too large.

I need to find a fitting that will work, but I don't know the size of the thread I need. I've been to Fastenal and Home Depot and neither can find the size or thread pitch because apparently it's an odd size (WTF?).

Should I get an AN fitting? Or what are my options. I'm running an EVO 16G.
Can I just plug up the hole and run no water on my DD 16G?

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[Jafro]

BSP and BSPT are really odd-ball sizes that you will not find in auto parts stores or home depot. It will take a specialty supply or machine shop's contracted supplier to come up with a BSPT fitting. If the hole is the one that came with the block, that's what it is. Actually, you'll still have to order it anyways because the other end's -AN fitting isn't something that plumbing supply stores or Pep Boy's will carry.

The fitting on the right (aluminum adapter) is the correct factory fitting. Pegasus does indeed still sell the 3/8 BSP-to-6AN fittings on their site to replace it, and that link still works. They reportedly have them in-stock.

You need coolant in a Mitsu center section if you intend for your bearings to last more than a few miles.

That steel plug will not fit a 3/8" BSPT hole. If BSPT is a PITA to get, some people drill and tap it with a bigger NPT or other standard thread, and perhaps SBR did that for you already (if it fits)? BUT, if that steel plug does fit the hole, and it looks to me like it's 3/8" NPT... then -AN adapters for that are a dime a dozen, and easier to find than BSP. They'll be at just about every racing supply store (like Pegasus or Summit/Jegs, etc...)

What I did was use the 16mmx1.5 metric fitting Flash suggested [that has the wrong thread pitch], coupled with a Dowty washer and some grey RTV on the threads. Torqued to 45'lbs, it has never leaked a drop. When I installed it, I could tell the threads weren't getting along but it did indeed fit and seal up the hole very nicely. The info about Pegasus' BSP fittings wasn't posted until after I had ordered, but even though they're BSP and not BSPT, they would still be a better fit. You'd still need the Dowty washer (because they're not tapered threads) to seal up the hole properly. This advice of course is based on a best-case scenario where the hole is the right size for the aluminum fitting on the right.

Sorry for being so long-winded, but I like this thread. It got lots of great input. Try screwing that steel plug into a 3/8" NPT threaded pipe fitting. If it fits, your search for an -AN adapter will be an easy one on-line.