Best/Most Versatile 1G Coilover setup?

[PaulPDX]

I suppose the tire wear depends on how aggressive your suspension is set to (camber, toe etc.) IIRC, John provides alignment specs with each set of JICs he sells.

I assume the hotbits price is without camber plates since the street/track models don't come with pillow mounts.

 

[Turbo Shogun]

Speaking of the HotBits set-up, here's a bit of an update.

After numerous calls to Peter Reilly's office phone (He's hard to get a hold of, must be pretty busy), he finally gave me his Cell #, along with saying that they are still working on the setup for our 1G AWD's (This was last Wednesday). Unfortunately, the calls were made during inopportune times (Work), so it's become a voice mailbox correspondence. Hopefully I can get through during lunch sometime this week.

Neural, the $1200 price tag seems to be for the kit that HotBits keeps in stock in australia, and not the kit that is in development ... Or I could be wrong? Another question to ask ...

 

[PaulPDX]

Still working on it? odd. The HotBits section of their site shows part numbers for 93 and up Eclipse AWD for both street/track and sport kits.

I don' think there are any suspension differences between the 89-92 and 93-94 cars.

If HotBits Australia already has a kit for the 93... then isn't Motorsport Dist. kind of reinventing the wheel?

As for camber plates... based on what I saw in the GVR4 GB, camber plates are something like $120 additional, IIRC. Still well below $2000. But ride quality and handling is still an unknown... so apples to oranges at this point, still.

I think for me it will just come down to how much $ I have sitting around when the time comes. Not enough hard data & too much smoke. Will probably just have to bite the bullet and take a leap of faith then.

 

[Turbo Shogun]

I did see an application for '93 Eclipse AWDs on the HotBits site, but could it be a typo? It's nothing new, I saw it awhile back, however, I was led to assume it could have been the aforementioned typo, or error in determining the make of a 2G AWD. They didn't have any pictures of 1G's.

Another message to leave.

And, BTW, that price ($120) is *just* for camber plates for the front, and do not include pillowball mounts for the rear as well, correct? That's still a good price for camber plates, though, considering the alternative would be RRE or GC plates, which run in excess of $200.

 

[Turbo Shogun]

I've read about Tein's camber plates/PB mounts bending in the middle of an autocross season, but I haven't heard of any problems with the GC plates ... People recommend them over the Tein's, actually.

 

[PaulPDX]

Couple weeks ago I asked KW what it would take for them to come up with a couple kits for the DSM. They use revalved Koni Sport interntals. Anyway, here is their response:

Paul

Although we do not offer anything for the DSM line of vehicles, this may be
in the works soon.

I myself have been pushing to have this made, and now with the new North
American R&D facility almost ready to open, this should become a reality
within the next year.

I would not expect to see them listed until next summer, but look for an
announcement on the website!

Tom Edge
KW Suspensions North America
www.kwsuspensions.com

 

[NDgsx]

I've read about Tein's camber plates/PB mounts bending in the middle of an autocross season, but I haven't heard of any problems with the GC plates ... People recommend them over the Tein's, actually.

I bent GC before, but I think the G force exceeded the design paramters of a road racing car. In other words don't jump your car at 70mph

The bad thing about GCs is that they have exposed needle bearings that are used to let the spring rotate. Dirt and grim build up if it's street driven. Plan on replacing the bearings every 6 months to a year. It's not hard to do, but it does add one more thing to your maintance schedule.

 

[preilly]

I guess its DSM month at MDI.

As I told the 3000GT guys, I don't have too much time to follow the forum, email works better. I can answer at night. Daytime is so busy right now I can't even get to my car (the TSI). I have had a member ask to review this thread and reply to some questions.

You have to be carefull with the main HotBits site. Sometimes the years for each application may be a little off.
MDI is working on the G1 Talon/Eclipse (my mistake on the 3000GT forum...too much DSM lately) G2 and G3 are ready now.
I have delivered both some VR4 Galant street race for the street and some street race for rally in the last month. The GB from VR4 was done with a VR4 member and HotBits Malaysia direct. Go through us and your life is easier.

Hi Larry, I know you are out there somewhere, Larry can attest that Scott and I have blown up almost every one else dampers rallying (Bilstien excluded, great stuff), including his past employers. Scott and I are Champions in both regional, National and North American titles in the past few year, so we have results...not just talk.

2004 was suppose to be my retirement from rally and now I am building a TSI for Production class, which also led to a Golf III Syncro, its my wifes fault, said I am too stressed if I am not racing.

The car should be back on the road by the long weekend.

HotBits builds the dampers, not Bilstien. They are similar mono tube, but not inverted, so you loose no travel.
Street setups are designed to keep stock height or lower and the entire strut/shock is built shorter to achieve this.
The Rally setups are OEM length or greater if we can. You can keep stock height or a little higher.
G1 Talon and VR4 Galant are identical specs for structure on the struts/shocks. The springs rates and valving will change for each chassis and application. We will setup the medium ground for street, however we can valve based on your spring rate requests. The valving would be tested on the dyno, but this only gives you a starting point. It really needs to be put in the car and run in the desired application. Daily driver vs weekend racer vs full track vs rally.
The owner of HotBits also owns SpeedWorks in Malaysia, Singapore and Australia. He is aeronautically trained, so he overbuilds everything. I have not had a repair on a HotBits suspension used in rally. I did get a bent Suzuki rear sent in, but it came loose from its bottom mount, got to tighten those bolts!

If you check out www.motorsport-dist.com there will be updates for the G1 set. Pics of the prototype are there now.

You can send me any questions to [email protected] and then post my replys. Once we are done with the G1, I am sure we can setup some sort of group buy and a special price. I will see if we can arrange something for the 3 DSM forums chasing me now.
First competition for the G1 is Oct 2, a regional Rally in Ontario called the Galway Cavendish. I have been 2nd O/A there the last 2 years in the Focus, we will see if I can drive a Talon.

 

[RU2SLOW?]

This has by far been the most informative suspension thread I've ever read regarding DSMs and I wanted to thank everyone involved for making it just that. Being that there seems to be so many suspension experts in this thread I wanted to ask a question of you all.

I have GCC/KYB AGX combo right now and I absolutely hate it. It is awful on the street and I don't think the handling is as good as I'd like it to be. I don't auto-x or rally my car but have a few trips to the drags (1 or 2x per yr) planned when my setup is finished. I love the ride height of my car but HATE the performance and driveability. I'm looking for a coilover kit that will give me a sleak lowered (dare I say slammed) look and also give me enough to take hard cornering and curves on the street/highway without feeling like my jaw is gonna break from bottoming out or like I just hit the eject button when I hit a small bump in the road. With this being said, money isn't an option at this point for me to get the feel that I want from my suspension. I was thinking of Teins, being that it has been stated that the AWD kit will fit my FWD, but I can't understand what all of you dislike so much about this setup? Would the Tein setup be enough for what I'm looking for, but not enough for the hardcore race crowd? Bare with me, I'm just trying to understand. My impression of the JIC setup is that it's great for the track- from proven track results- but awful for the street- I think I read nearly unbearable on the highway. Please help me out guys- I'm desperate to break free from the GCC/AGX prison....

 

[Blak94GSX]

The Road Race Engineering setup that utilizes JIC components rides far better on the street than the GC/AGX setup in my opinion. The GC/AGXs is what I had before and the ride was terrible due to inadequate valving in the rear shocks. The car would hop all over the place and the ride was rough at best.

The RRE setup as has been discussed here in this thread and others, uses shocks with a large valve orifice that can work well at both high and low shaft speeds unlike the AGXs which effectively close off the valve at high shaft speeds. When ordering you just have to specify that you want a nice ride as well. The setup is built custom for each customer's needs, so if you don't want a track only config you need to specify.

On my car I run a pretty aggressive setup, and it still rides better than the GC/AGXs on the street... My kidneys thank me

 

[coolnick]

I would be willing to bet that if you raised your car about an inch it wouldn't be so unbearable. It is difficult to lower our cars (I am assuming you have a 1g) enough to look respectable and still behave properly. If you want your car to sit in the weeds and still behave in a somewhat reasonable manner, then Tein or JIC are your best bet. The ride height does not affect the ride quality much with the JICs because they retain the same stroke at any ride height. But if you want your car low you will have to tolerate high spring rates, otherwise it will bottom out or rub on the fenders. The Tein and JIC spring rates are fairly high, as well as the purchase price, I think that is about the jist of the complaints about those two.

I would seriously try raising your car before you shell out that kind of $$. Check the AGXs to make sure they aren't leaking.

 

[Turbo Shogun]

Finally had time to post that MDI hasn't considered doing camber plates yet, but Peter stated it'd be easy to do and very feasible.

Also, just wondering if anyone else asked some other questions and got some answers.

 

[bigfoot]

Could you go ahead and post that email (neuralracing) so we all know what you are talking about?

Ditto. I got an email from Peter at Hot-Bits too but my email filter blocked the attatchment. Post it please. Any spring rate info? The prices are quoted in the GVR4 GB thread. http://www.galantvr4.org/ubbthreads...35449&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1

 

[Turbo Shogun]

A secret? ... No, I thought you guys got similar e-mails?

Well, here's the e-mail I sent.

Peter,

Looks good! How do I go about ordering them? I calculated the price and it should cost around $962.50 as a group buy with all duties, taxes and shipping, as per your .PDF file. Is this about right? Another concern of mine is, will the coilovers be coming from Malaysia, or are you going to be building and shipping them out of your shop in Canada? Also, will I have the option of having you be able to change the valving and spring rates, and will that cost extra? If so, what are the rates you have planned for the "base" Street Race kit?

And about pillowball mounts ... Will I really need them? I intend on the car being a decicated Autocross and Time Attack car with occasional street duty (I have a daily driver for commutes to school and wherever, I plan to take her out twice a week, maybe, so some ride harshness in the name of performance is good to me). I think pillowballs are a necessity on rally cars only because of the stresses placed on regular shock mounts, but I could be wrong as to their effectiveness on the street. Also, I think this may be a dumb question to ask, but does the Street Race Kit come with Coaxial Spring Hats? As for the camber plates, if I need to run ~2 degrees of -/+ camber, will they really be necessary?

Sorry for the volley of questions, but I'm getting pretty amped about these! Been wanting a set for a long time.

Thanks!
~Kevin

And here's what he replied,

Hi Kevin,

All manufacturing is done in Malaysia. The plant is TUV certified. This is why there is a sea freight delay. The sea freight will come into Toronto and we will forward it from here.
We have all the parts and equipment to do the revalves or rebuilds here in Canada. The price we were working with for a revalve is $50/cdn per corner, thats covers the oil, seals, shims and labour. We stock various weights and lengths of springs. If you so choose you can change the spring rates prior to manufacturing there will be no cost difference.

Pillow mounts, we are still testing a stronger bearing for rally, most kits are for street or track in order to dail back in the camber when you drop the car. My Talon we are going to rally has to have stock upper mounts as it is production class requirement. I slotted the top hole to get myself to -2 deg.

As for you dumb question, I have one. What is a coaxial spring hat?

Spring rates so far are set to be 70kg front (392lb) 40kg rear (224lb). I have been questioned on the softer rear springs, but I already find the rear a little loose with the rest of the suspension stock, ie.sway bars.
I want to get some more time driving the G1 this weekend.

Regards,
Peter Reilly

I hope this answers any questions for now.

 

[neuralracing]

If I order them I would plan on revalving them for the best performance possible without sacrificing too much treadware. Ride Harshness I could care less for... I have a very pleasing ride in my S-Type 4.0.

So my question is... how will this kit compare to the Tein Setup and the JIC setup from RRE?

Looks like after duties, shipping and revalving, the setup will cost about the same as the Teins.... just wondering how the 3 kits compare. My car (just like Turbo Shogun's) will be for Time Trial track days, occassional drag strip trips... and the weeekend stroll on the highway to warm up... So the best handling available is my priority... but I am also a very BIG advocate for best bang for your buck (hence I bought a 1G to develop as my track car).

 

[3literpwr]

Hotbits is the best bang for the buck!! They utilize large dia rods to make the dampers sensative and stout..... Peter and Scott both have broke many shocks including my old employers!! (I didnt desing them) As of right now I run my bastard child remote resivoir setup but soon I will need spares and as I have not finished my 50mm inverted setup I will purchase a hotbits setup for myself.... I wont buy JUNK! and many of you guys on this forum and others know how critical of dampers I am.........

Cheers
Larry Parker
SCCA CLub rally (soon to be a cars open class car)

 

[Ludachris]

Cleaned this thread up and stickied it. Please keep all hearsay out. Only post info from your own experiences or post nothing at all.

 

[Dauntless]

To get back to HokieDSM's original post, and to comply with Ludachris' recent instructions, here's my experience with a very similar car (HokieDSM has a '92 FWD N/A - I have a '93 FWD TSi).

I have KYB AGX dampers with Eibach springs on my car's front struts and GAB/Eibachs at the rear. I thought the Eibachs were Sportkit springs, but after comparing my car with pics of cars on the Prokit vs. Sportkit thread, I now think I must have the slightly taller Prokit springs. (I bought them 5 years ago, threw out the box, and simply don't recall.) At the rear I have the slightly milder GAB adjustable dampers with matching springs. This combo was the hot ticket for street and auto-x'd FWD 1G cars back then and I still think it would be hard to beat. Even then it was recognized that KYB's at all four corners on a street driven FWD car was too harsh. The GABs have softer damping than the KYBs, and I think this is critical for a good ride with the lighter and less responsive FWD rear end. Folks who complain that their KYB-equipped FWD cars are darty over the slightest bump need look no further than this.

If a person wants the slightly higher stock ride-height (say for rallycross), then GABs at all four corners with the stock springs is a good option (KYBs have too much damping for stock springs). GABs on their softest setting combined with OEM springs was highly thought of in its day, before looking cool was the primary thing. This combo gives a firm yet compliant ride, but with a bit more body roll than with Eibachs. FWIW, the stock dampers are the pimary culprit in the mushy ride issue. They are junk from a performance perspective, especially with aftermarket springs, as they will feel as if they've failed even when brand new.

Hope that helps!

 

[HokieDSM]

To get back to HokieDSM's original post, and to comply with Ludachris' recent instructions, here's my experience with a very similar car (HokieDSM has a '92 FWD N/A - I have a '93 FWD TSi).

Stan - Just for reference - the original post was made for my 93 TSI AWD - which I no longer have.

I believe that's the first solid reference of GABs that I've seen in this thread- where can you buy them? I was really looking for a good rally[cross] style setup but aside from HotBits, didnt find any other good options.

 

[RU2SLOW?]

Hokie, The Speed Factor is offering a full coilover setup that is very similar to the JICs made by a company called D2. I've talked to Martin at Speed Factor at length about them and he has nothing but great things to say about them. I've also done a search on Yahoo, and I came across a bunch of different car forums- ranging from Skylines to 240s- and all of them say really good things as well. Don't quote me on this, but I believe they go for around $1000 for the 1G FWD kit. Check them out on The Speed Factor website if you're interested. Just thought I'd throw this idea at you so you'd have another option for auto-xing.

 

[Dauntless]

Stan - Just for reference - the original post was made for my 93 TSI AWD - which I no longer have.

Cliff - yeah, I know the thread's a year old. Hope I didn't confuse things too badly...

I just did a quickie search and see that Stillen sells them for a couple hundred per axle. There are probably others.

 

[coolnick]

Hokie, The Speed Factor is offering a full coilover setup that is very similar to the JICs made by a company called D2. I've talked to Martin at Speed Factor at length about them and he has nothing but great things to say about them. I've also done a search on Yahoo, and I came across a bunch of different car forums- ranging from Skylines to 240s- and all of them say really good things as well. Don't quote me on this, but I believe they go for around $1000 for the 1G FWD kit. Check them out on The Speed Factor website if you're interested. Just thought I'd throw this idea at you so you'd have another option for auto-xing.

The D2 coilovers have a bad name in the 240 crowd.

 

[Cesar]

Hello,

I have my set for sale. It is brand new, never installed. Peter Relly just dropped them off himself. The reason I am selling them is because I am also selling my car. I am looking to pay off all of my bills in order to pursue my dream of becoming a Formula 1 driver.
Check the classifieds...

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[RU2SLOW?]

The D2 coilovers have a bad name in the 240 crowd.

Really? What I read about them was predominantly good. I'm really surprised about this. Just when you thought you've done enough research on something...

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

The D2 coilovers have a bad name in the 240 crowd.

hey folks, just thought I would chime in here.

D2 coilovers (K-Sport) have a great name in the Nissan community. There was a little bit of an issue with a batch that was shipped with the wrong shock oil so people in colder claimants had some noise issues but D2 did issue a recall and is voluntarily replacing those kits. Aside from that we have never once had an issue with them.

We do indeed have a 1g kit available but haven't gotten one here yet. We do have some on the way and it seems like it will be about 2 weeks before we see them. We will test them first to make sure they live up to the quality we have come to expect from D2. The cool thing is that the D2 1g kits come complete with front camber plates. We haven't set pricing on them yet but they shouldn't be to much more than $1000 or less for DSMtuners.com members.

Please feel free contact us with any questions you may have.