Best/Most Versatile 1G Coilover setup?

[PaulPDX]

$1000 cost? Does that number you listed have any basis in reality? I hope others don't think so

I beleive I was talking about the HotBits GB (GVR4) vs RRE's JIC pricing. Read before you decide to jump on the box and talk down to people. Not exactly winning over anyone with that kind of tone.

If I am not mistaken, this thread was/is intended to explore and discuss the options available. Any discussions weighing the pros and the cons of each option would be helpful. No one is slamming RRE or John's tuning. For those who don't have great cash flow, that option is simply not an option. Understood?

Your post is the only one I have read that actually mention different valving. For over 6 months I have read numerous postings and have also emailed RRE. Your post is the only account of such. RRE has never mentioned to me exactly what they do in their tuning nor has any of their customers who have bothered to do a write up about them. There have to just too much of a smoke screen to make the $2000 price tag even less enticing.

Isn't it interesting that this thread has been going on for quite a while now and suddenly the JIC supporters are coming out of the woodwork?

Yes, I am perfectly aware of the FLT-A2's MSRP. What does MSRP mean in the real world? Jack shit. MSRP and street price can be very different. And any idiot knows there is a huge difference between MSRP and cost. When numerous vendors sell well below MSRP and one selling over MSRP with "special tuning" but no official information on what that additional work entails, it's only logical and natural for potential buyers to think twice.

Now that we know that RRE reworks the valving... it still would have been nice to hear it directly from them. So if they are concerned about the misinformation regarding their service, it is really their own doing... but somehow, I don't think they really care. They get enough business as is.

 

[4ged4G63]

.....

 

[Knower]

ok so in the beginning of this thread a guy mentioned how he dynoed the JIC's (off the shelf?) and they were all over the place and looked like shit compared to many other shocks hes tested. So does the tuning that RRE (John) perform to the JIC's fix this, "all over the place" issue?

Is there dyno charts of before and after RRE performs work (tuning) on a set of JIC's?

Maybe there was a quality issue at the time (he didn't give any timeframe to his testing or quantify it with any data)? Either way it's obvious that the JICs he tested were not the JICs that RRE sells. These JICs perform well on and off the track.

 

[Blak94GSX]

All this talk about dynoes had me thinking I was on SupraForums! Had to check the URL in the browser...

It is a sad day when specs that somebody heard from their friend that has an uncle that knows a guy with some coilovers become more important than track proven results...

 

[Knower]

You obviously haven't read anything that's been said. Thank you please drive through.

The dude posted multiple times and obviously has a good handle on what conversation went on in the thread since he was a major part of it. The guy has first hand experience with the basic product he commented on, unlike you. Getting butt hurt is pointless. Ego-pumping, but ultimately pointless.

 

[bigfoot]

All this talk about dynoes had me thinking I was on SupraForums! Had to check the URL in the browser...

It is a sad day when specs that somebody heard from their friend that has an uncle that knows a guy with some coilovers become more important than track proven results...

Never heard of a shock dyno before? I have, I sent two shocks to Koni two months ago to get tested. Thats how you get proven results on a shock. The same shock will give different track results on different cars or drivers.

This thread is going downhill fast. Too bad, I was learning about new options untill this page. Can we just once have a thread that isnt full of "My stuff is so great."

Honestly Knower, I appreciate and respect RRE, but give it a rest huh.

 

[coolnick]

You obviously haven't read anything that's been said. Thank you please drive through.

Do you want me to build your car for you?

Stop arguing with people about dumb shit and go buy something so you can tell us how it works, not how you think it should work.

Don't be a hater :thumbdown

 

[cait sith]

Busy like building a race car from the ground up, among other things. I would e-mail him or leave him another message asking him for a quick update if possible since it's been over a week. Last time I talked to him (last week) he was so busy he specifically mentioned not being able to get to much suspension work. Keep trying and I'm sure he will get back to you when there's a break in the crazyness.

It's worth it.

Well, I got a call from John last night, and from talking to him, I think it's going to be worth it.

---

Unfortunately, there's a reason why you haven't heard much about the Mueller/JIC setup. John wants to keep the settings and so forth to his exclusiveness. Like not sharing the information on the message boards of the heights/spring rates/etc etc. That is why you don't hear much about what goes into them.

 

[HokieDSM]

Unfortunately, there's a reason why you haven't heard much about the Mueller/JIC setup. John wants to keep the settings and so forth to his exclusiveness. Like not sharing the information on the message boards of the heights/spring rates/etc etc. That is why you don't hear much about what goes into them.

That doesn't suprise me - not to mention the fact that every application calls for different heights/spring rates depending on what the customer wants. I know we've pretty much sank Tein as a good alternative - but has anyone thought to email them to see if they can be special ordered with different spring rates/etc, that might help them as a less expensive alternative?

 

[coolnick]

Well, I got a call from John last night, and from talking to him, I think it's going to be worth it.

---

Unfortunately, there's a reason why you haven't heard much about the Mueller/JIC setup. John wants to keep the settings and so forth to his exclusiveness. Like not sharing the information on the message boards of the heights/spring rates/etc etc. That is why you don't hear much about what goes into them.

This is what turned me off about John. We are obviously all here to share information, we are not competing racers that need to keep our setup a secret. The whole point of all these car forums is to share our experiences so that we can help fellow enthusiasts.

Now aside from all of this crap, I do order lots of stuff from RRE. If I were on that coast and not so inclined to install my own parts, I would have had John prep my car. It's the little things like the active rear toe elimination and rear camber fix that really make his install worth the money. After my install, we had my car on the alignment rack for about 3 hours dialing everything in. Luckily I have a local alignment shop owned by a road race guru, with a GVR4 owner turning the wrenches.

The reason I started to post on this thread is because I wanted to know what spring rates other people are running, and to share what I thought of mine. And I wanted to share my opinion that the only distinction between all these manufacturers are just the little features. Some people want the EDFC, some people want the car in the weeds, some want it stock height. The real fun doesn't start until after you make the purchase and put the set on your car. This is when you find out what you can and cannot tolerate. Then the tuning begins. You will NEVER be able to order up XYZ coilovers, install them on your car, and be perfectly happy with every aspect of the coilovers as you ordered them. So there is no "most versatile 1g coilover setup". I don't want to sound like JICs marketing manager, I went through this same torture for months before I finally made up my mind. I really did not want to spend that much, but after all the other suspension setups I have owned, I knew that $1000 doesn't get you shit (ground control/Koni setup on my Jetta blows big ones). I almost ordered from Tein, but I didn't like their phone manners. Ultimately it came down to the camber plates and the ability to keep the spring snug at any ride height. That's why I ordered the JICs. If the Teins or anything else offered those two things in the neighborhood of $1500-2000, then I would have had to make a harder decision.

Let's get back on track and find some other people that can chime in with their setups and tell us what they think. Anybody out there with a higher spring rate in the rear?

 

[Kevin Doe]

I do say, the JICs are a nice setup. I do not own them, but I have a friend that does and they are great. Nick is right about the nice features like keepign the spring snug at any ride height.

Kevin

 

[Blak94GSX]

The problem with this thread is that people are bashing setups that they haven't even tried on a track. I know what a shock dyno is, and I think it is neat and I like shiny stuff as much as anybody, but I'm more interested in what works and/or doesn't work when bolted up to my DSM, rather than how great it works on the shock dyno.

As far as sharing information goes, John is very helpful to people that want to find the proper set up for their car. John makes his living doing that, and although there are no real secrets, the real magic is all in the details. The details are what keep John employed. It is like worrying about the formula used to make Legos, when the important part is how you put the pieces together, not what they are made of.

I'm very happy with my setup and would still run them even if they were the worst shocks ever tested on a dyno. I also have an oversquare engine, which according to the textbooks is undesirable, but rocks in my car.

 

[coolnick]

I'm very happy with my setup and would still run them even if they were the worst shocks ever tested on a dyno. I also have an oversquare engine, which according to the textbooks is undesirable, but rocks in my car.

What setup are you running?

 

[Blak94GSX]

I have the Muellerized JIC setup, and a 2.3L stroker motor.

 

[coolnick]

I have the Muellerized JIC setup, and a 2.3L stroker motor.

Well then, I guess you have had a good chuckle over all this, sneaky bastard...

 

[PaulPDX]

The dude posted multiple times and obviously has a good handle on what conversation went on in the thread since he was a major part of it. The guy has first hand experience with the basic product he commented on, unlike you. Getting butt hurt is pointless. Ego-pumping, but ultimately pointless.

The dude posted multiple times and obviously has a good handle on what conversation went on in the thread since he was a major part of it. The guy has first hand experience with the basic product he commented on, unlike you. Getting butt hurt is pointless. Ego-pumping, but ultimately pointless.

Okay you dipsticks. You each send me $1000 and I will try JM's JIC's just so you can at least be civil about things. I have never once said JM's setup is crap. The only thing that's been said is the secrecy surrounding what he does, and the butt dyno results from people who have them. If you have been around car forums, you ought to know that it isn't always good enough when someone simpley says "it drives great". Got it?

Money doesn't grow on trees for some and the $2000 price tag is just a bit too much. Some of us have other financial obligations like housing, career, etc. Part of this thread was going toward finding alternative options that, perhaps aren't as good, but are good enough and are more affordable. For me, Tein SS are pretty much ruled out. Once I got word that there will be an upcoming HotBits based kit, we are all just waiting to see what it will be like and how it will stack up to the existing options. In fact, if it doesn't stack up, I will probably just end up waiting longer and save up for a set of JIC's. The only ones who have been doing the hating in this thread are the two of you for me not jumping on your bandwagon and taking your word as the gospel. If you had actually read this thread as those of us who have been with it since the beginning, you would have seen me say that I don't doubt JM's tuning abilities more than once. I don't mind paying more for the right stuff, however, if there is something else out there that is almost as good and will allow me to save some money, I will because my car will be mostly a track capable street car. I don't need a full blown race setup since it won't be used as a full blown track only race car. It's all about application, stupid.

By now, if you still don't get the point of the discussion (which was going just fine until you chimed in with your attitude -- and I am clearly not the only one who feels this way) then your input is not worth my time. If you really did not intend to be a snob and genuinely wanted to share your experience with the JM tuned JICs, you could have written your responses in so many ways other than the tone in which you presented your ideas. It was totally uneccessary (both of you) and totally uncalled for. The mods will sort this one out.

 

[Blak94GSX]

Clearly cost is an important factor in making a purchasing decision.

For me personally, having the car be good in the all-around stuff, both straightline and turning stuff, the cost of buying a decent suspension system was justifiable. The problem that I had was no decent systems existed at the time I set out to buy one, so I started with the GAB/Eibach Pro Kit setup first as that was the flavor of the week. After deciding the ride was too bad and the handling balance was not really improved much over stock, I went to the Ground Control setup. Then after deciding that was even worse, I blamed it on the shocks not being able to handle the springs properly, so I got a set of ShockTechs. The ShockTechs were a step in the right direction and the ride was much improved over the GCs. Then after they died, I was pretty desperate and tried out a set of prototype JICs on my car. After a few rounds of changes the JICs were by far the best. Good ride and proper balance. Now Mueller has several different setups perfected based on your answers during the "Muellerization Interview" process.

So my point is that you can spend $2000 for a set of JICs, which I think is a steal considering how much labor is involved, or you can spend $8400 for a set of JICs like I did...

If you want to go cheap, I'll give you a special deal. Give me $600 and I'll kick you in the nuts as hard as I can. That will still save you $400 from the $1000 you were going to spend on some crap, and be less painful in the long run. Just trying to be helpful and informative...

 

[coolnick]

So my point is that you can spend $2000 for a set of JICs, which I think is a steal considering how much labor is involved, or you can spend $8400 for a set of JICs like I did...

If you want to go cheap, I'll give you a special deal. Give me $600 and I'll kick you in the nuts as hard as I can. That will still save you $400 from the $1000 you were going to spend on some crap, and be less painful in the long run. Just trying to be helpful and informative...

That was awesome! This is exactly the same process that I went through on another car, you buy shit and find out what you hate about it, then buy something else. I have had about a bazillion different lowering spring/adjustable shock setups, and the ground control Koni setups. They all sucked in their own little way, so I was looking for a better setup.

Paul, you were the one that attacked me with the bullshit about not reading the thread. Go back a few pages, you might see my earlier posts. I was not trying to argue with anyone, I wanted to know what spring rates others are running. You should know that my "butt dyno" is quite a bit different than yours. When I said to go buy something and try it, I meant it. You will not know until you do so. You do not want to hear what other people have to say about a setup that works. Buy the Hotbits and tell us how they work, or buy the JICs or buy the Teins. Then and only then will you be able to post an impression of a coilover setup. If you read my posts (ironic isn't it) you would see that I share your exact same view about RRE and JM. Prices are high, settings are secretive, but their work is well known to be top notch.

I did not have the cash to drop on the JICs when I started my quest and I was damned if I was going to pay that much for a coilover setup. But through my experiences with everything else that exists I was able to sift through the facts and determine that there were a whole lot of happy JIC people out there. I am sure there are happy Tein owners out there too, but that SS setup is too new to have any good reviews. The same will be said for the Hotbits parts when they come out. Don't take me the wrong way, we are all in the same boat here. I chose to wait a few months and save up the extra cash for the JICs and I am happy that I did it.

Sorry to everyone that has subscribed to this thread and has to read all this crap, but if we can get this straightened out and move on, we will get more good info. I envy the people that are happy with their Pro Kit springs and KYB GR2s (and don't flare up on me for that comment bastards, I mean nothing bad by it).

 

[4ged4G63]

ok what about those of us that don't live near RRE and want to purchase the JM/RRE JIC setup? Does he tune the kit on a car of same year and ship it out to you after hes done?

 

[Blak94GSX]

Actually it does come all setup ready to bolt on. The car will then need to be aligned at an alignment shop to the specs John provides with the setup. Each car is bent slightly different, so the alignment can't be done beforehand. The rest of it though is pretty much bolt-on.

You would have to talk to John if you want to work out the specifics. Basically you and John need to discuss what you want to do with the car and then the suspension will be set up accordingly.

 

[4ged4G63]

interesting

 

[PaulPDX]

ok what about those of us that don't live near RRE and want to purchase the JM/RRE JIC setup? Does he tune the kit on a car of same year and ship it out to you after hes done?

John will ask you a number of questions, like what kind of driving you plan to do, which tracks, what type of roads are in your area etc. Based on your answers and what he's done in the past, he will set the suspension up accordingly.

You can take the suspension to any shop to have installed. I belive the $2000 price includes installation. Slightly less without installation. I can't remember for sure. It's been more than six months since I looked at their JIC page. Back then I was all ready to order but a health related issue dried up the funds.

 

[neuralracing]

Any word on the Hotbits... I am leaning towards not going with Tein given that the 10% discount is no longer in effect... hence the price is now $1260. I only intended on going with Tein given that with the 10% they were close to $1K and Prostreet gives free shipping.

I emailed John at RRE and he has not answered my email.

 

[PaulPDX]

http://www.motorsport-dist.com/

Motorsport Distributing
PO Box 220,#
Brampton, ON
CANADA,#
L6V 2L1

Phone: 905-458-1318
Phone: 1-866-458-1318 (Toll Free)

Peter Reilly (owner): [email protected]

re: RRE... call. Emails are too easy to put off.

 

[neuralracing]

Got an email from John at RRE today... he asked me to fill out the RRE Suspension Information form... the thing that is killing me is the tradeof factor. In that he is asking me wether I want handling or tirelife. I want the best handling... which comes at the cost of tire wear... but I wonder how much tire wear.

Peter Reilly also emailed me and stated that the Hot Bit setup would be priced at about $1,200 (that includes the shipping from Australia).