Bc springs.

[keltalon]

Spring was replaced and all is good!

 

[BIGBLAZE79]

I put BC springs in my head and I wish I would have known the BC springs are only about 15% stronger that stock.

Brian Crower Spring Pressures:
Seat: 1.500" @ 95 lbs
Open: 1.000" @ 235 lbs
Coil Bind: 0.910"
The Manley springs show 295 LBS open in there catalog.

Oh well live and learn I guess, good luck man

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Brain Crower makes underperforming cams and I'm not so surprised about the valve springs either assume there was nothing wrong with the instillation.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

With a s259 turbo on 264/264 cams you definitely have no gain revving to 8700 rpm. It's way out of the cams powerband but needless to say a BC valve springs should be able to handle that.

 

[motomattxxx]

China=JUNK, nuff said.

 

[SonySlave]

For god's sake I have been trying to tell people about these shitty springs for so long! Yet again, another example of BC's shitty products falling apart due to absolutely horrendous quality assurance.

I'll show this pic again and I'll keep posting it until people figure it out! My friend's set of BCs never revved past 8000rpm. DON'T BUY BC PARTS EVER!

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Zex4g63]

I am surprised we don't hear more horror stories about these springs. They truly are junk.

 

[turbo90gsx]

That defiantly sucks man. I rev my BC 280's and springs to 9200, no issues. 15 passes at the track and 4 months of pretty solid driving.

 

[artindsm]

You may want to look into this further it may just be you got a bad batch of springs i have heard it to happen in lifters( as for having a bad batch sent out) This being one of the few times i have heard of crower springs failing.

Just a thought

 

[BogusSVO]

I have installed about 25-30 sets of the BC springs, with out any issues, or failures. all head at the time are/were running stock cams.

I use them as a "stock" replacement spring.

But I have seen alot of spring failures, but ALOT of diffrent spring makers. Most the time what causes the springto fail is improper set up, to tight or too loose, or too much cam for the spring.

I will also agree that all springs are not made equall.

If the springs are just dropped in, and installed height is not checked, issues will arise.

I would say speak with the cam manufacture and see what springs they reccommend.

 

[BogusSVO]

Thats good to hear!!
I have talked with Brain a time or tow in the past ,. Hes a good guy.

 

[diambo4life]

No issues with my BC valvetrain. Been on there for 2+ yrs, lots of miles, 9,000rpm redline. As far as I'm concerned, they have worked beautifully with my BC280s.

Good luck.

 

[dsm-onster]

Considering the shear volume of springs they sell every year, the instances are rather far and few between I think. But I still like my manley singles over the BC singles because of the higher spring rates.

 

[black_gst]

No issues with my BC valvetrain. Been on there for 2+ yrs, lots of miles, 9,000rpm redline. As far as I'm concerned, they have worked beautifully with my BC280s.

Good luck.

well thats good to hear i have the same setup. i have been nervous about bumping my redline up to 8500 i have it set to 8k right now.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Ive been running bc springs and retainers with Kelford 272s up to 8k. I wont rev any higher, especially being the kelfords are pretty aggressive. Sorry to hear about your head, but thats cool that they were willing to work with you...

 

[blackGSX2g]

Considering the shear volume of springs they sell every year, the instances are rather far and few between I think. But I still like my manley singles over the BC singles because of the higher spring rates.

That's definately something to consider. People usually don't make it a point to post up and say their valve springs are working properly every day.

I think installation error (failure to check) and over driving the springs as much to do with it. Other times, it's just a material failure and dumb luck.

For what it's worth, I had the outer spring on my Manley dual set-up snap in half too. That was running a 264/272 set-up not going past 7500. I didn't know it broke at first and put another couple hundred miles on it with that valve running off of the weak internal spring while I was trying to diagnose my sudden power loss

 

[Gamble97]

I say boycott all BC products. Their cams make minimal power, and some pins were shearing off. The valve springs being only 15% stronger is a waste of money when you can use OEM evo ones which are stronger than our stockers.

 

[BogusSVO]

Gamble97... Its great that we all live in the good ol' US of A and can express our opions.

Like I have stated above.. I have installed 25-30 sets of the BC1100 spring, and yet to have one fail, or heard of one failed that I have installed.

here is some spring Info I have gathered
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341209-4g63t-valve-spring-info.html

alot of spring failures can be contributed to 2 things, renosanse hormonics, and too big a cam being run ..

if the spring is not installed the way the manufactor says, then the tention is not proper and can "bounce" between the spring pad and retainer, you can see when this has happened by the wear on the retainer and grooving of the spring pad.
so this would not be the fault of the spring, but the fault of the person installing the spring, and not checking the nesacery measurments.

and if you install a too big cam, you wook the springs more then 100% they will fail, so the best thing to do is see what springs and what spring specs the cam manufature reccomend.

Also you speak of the cam alignment dowel sheering off, well that is not a load point, I would bet the cam gears were not torqued to spec, and when running , small amount of movemet was allowed to hammer at the pin to cause it to fail.
Here again, this was not the fault of the cam, but the person installing the cam.

 

[JMGSX]

BogusSVO,

Using the data you provided it looks like BC1100 springs have roughly 44% more pressure closed and 47% more pressure open than stock springs. This is assuming that the open and closed heights you measured them at are correct, and that they vary due to physical spring dimensions. Does this sound correct?

 

[BogusSVO]

JMGSX

The info that I posted was from the manufatures of the springs, taken from info sheets in the box, catalog

I have posted what I have found testing used oe springs taken from several 4g heads also, most of them being just wore out from years of service.

Keltalon... Glad that you have recived all your parts!
I hope you have a trustworty shop that will measure each installed height of each valve and install the springs properly for you.

 

[JMGSX]

BogusSVO,

I know that the BC1100 rates may vary from what is advertised. The 4G rate I used was 66lbs closed and 160lbs open, which is what I thought the stock rate is when new. What I did not know is if the springs would have to be measured at the same height or if it is normal for the advertised pressures to be at different heights based on physical dimensions of the different springs?

Actually, BC lists their spring at 84lbs closed. That would only be a 27% difference when closed.

 

[BogusSVO]

cool.....

If you have any questions feel free to ask me.

 

[kp116]

I too am running BC springs and retainers. I have not had a issue with them at all but my old set up was only reving to 7500rpm on BC 272's. The new set up should be efficent to 8500+rpm and running kelford 272's. I have been debating whether or not to get new springs and retainers? I thought it might be cheap insurance to get a new set just to be on the safe side...

 

[Black_Bullet]

I too am running BC springs and retainers. I have not had a issue with them at all but my old set up was only reving to 7500rpm on BC 272's. The new set up should be efficent to 8500+rpm and running kelford 272's. I have been debating whether or not to get new springs and retainers? I thought it might be cheap insurance to get a new set just to be on the safe side...

Good luck with that, the Kelfords are aggressive cams, I think those BC springs and retainers are in for a ride with anything above 8k and those cams, im keeping mines at 8k on that setup.

 

[BogusSVO]

Ok lets see if I can explain this with out loosing anyone, myself included.

keltalon... you want 95lbs on the seat, at what installed height? thats the first question that has to be awnsered.
The next question is what is the lift of the NET lift of the cam? so we know how far the spring will be compressed at full lift.
Installed height is the distance between the bottom of the retainer and the top of the spring pad.

I have listed 4 spring brands below, and all 4 have diffrent installed heights.

when we look at the SBI OE replacements , they want a 1.575 installed height, we will assume that is an OE spec. (if someone has diffrent info please post it!!!!!!)

with that a a base to work with, we see that we will have to shim ALL the aftermarket springs below
they all ask for a shorter installed height.

now to increase the spring pressures we have to shorten the installed height from the manufacture spec.

I would not suggest the using the GSC power springs, looking at the avaiable specs, they are about a stock spring that will handle more lift. look at the SBI spring closed and compare to the GSC spring

SBI is 66 @ 1.575
GSC is 68 @ 1.560

now look at the open rates...

SBI is 160 @240
GSC is 160 @ .300 lift (some math here 1.560 - .300 =1.260)

so the GSC has a slightly more in/lb rate but not enough to really matter over the SBI

to get the GSC spring on the seat would require shimming the installed height to appox 1.460, these springs gain appox 30 lbs per .100 closed look at the .300 and .400 spec, and they may be a variable rate spring due to the the gain at the .500 spec

variable rate springs are like 2 springs in one, the first few coils are "soft" for low lift cams that do not need alot of pressure over the nose of the cam to keep out of valve float. the bottom coils gain pressure more quickly for big lift cams that need more pressure.

From what I have been reading , the Kiggly springs are supposed to be the end all spring for the 4G63 engines.
But there isnt enough info about the spring specs for me to figure inch rates and such . and they are also about twice the price of the GSC springs

IF ANYONE RUNNING THE KIGGLEY SPRINGS STILL HAS THERE SPEC SHEET PLEASE POST!!

so with what your wanting to run for pressure on the seat, 95lbs, I would not run the GSC nor the SBI springs.

The ferrea springs I feel would be a better fit due to the Installed seat pressure of 90lbs @ 1.496

now that I have looked at the specs , the Ferrea springs seem to be a heavier spring than the Kiggley springs

Kiggley inch rate of 325lbs
Ferrea inch rate of 342lbs

so with this info and a little more math the Kiggley springs would be about 81lbs @1.490
where the Ferrea are 90 @1.496

so of the springs listed, and the way the math works out, I would get the Ferrea springs.

If you want a real world run down on them I know some one who is running them and may be willing to talk to you about them.






SBI OE Replacement
Part Number #160-1280

Free length 1.910
O.D. 1.110
I.D. .754
Wire size .145x.178


Closed position
pressure & Length (intalled specs)
[email protected] Valve closed

Open position
Pressure & length Valve Open
[email protected]

solid height
1.100



GSC Power-Division 4G63T Beehive Single Spring Set
Spring Pressures :
Seat @ 1.56"=68 lbs / .300"=160lbs / .400"=190lbs / .450"=210lbs / .625"= Coil bind.



Kiggley springs
97lb Seat Pressure at 1.440"

325lb/in Rate


Ferrea "beehive" Spring info


Specs on the springs
- Spring O.D. - 23.87mm / 28.07mm = .939/1.105
- Spring I.D. - 14.73mm / 18.85mm = .579/.742
- Seat Pressure - 90 lbs. @38mm = 1.496
- Open Pressure - 225 lbs. @28mm =1.102
- Rate Inch - 342 lbs.
- Coil Bind - 23mm =.905
- Max Net Lift – 13.5mm = .531
- Spring Material - PAC Alloy