Altered Mental Status (1G AWD 5spd)

[chrisman287]

Sure. I'll give it a shot.

Injbattadjust, min/max timing and fuel maps, fuel settings you can cop

I have my idle at 950 I think. You can try my sd map if yours is around there

 

[Stapl3]

@Stapl3 buddy, do you remember what deadtimes you kept telling me to use? I can't find the comment you left with them here in the build thread. I'd like to start over and tune it the "right way".

Altered Mental Status (1G AWD 5spd)

Dude I know exactly the same horror kinda. While fixing some fencing up in Dade City a while back, I was digging out an old post to replace it. Down in the rotten wood saw something moving, like a wave or synchronized flock of birds, but solid and black. It was hundreds of baby spiders, but they...

www.dsmtuners.com

 

[CrackedDSM]

Altered Mental Status (1G AWD 5spd)

Dude I know exactly the same horror kinda. While fixing some fencing up in Dade City a while back, I was digging out an old post to replace it. Down in the rotten wood saw something moving, like a wave or synchronized flock of birds, but solid and black. It was hundreds of baby spiders, but they...

www.dsmtuners.com

7v -> 2988
9v -> 2142
12v -> 1266
14v -> 971
16v -> 789
19v -> 558


Just so future me can find it again.


I swear I used those and with deadtime pulled enough so that it would idle on it's own and AFRest/Wideband matched...it was a MF'er trying to get it to hot start. Might try again but double check more of the DA tables to make sure they're all stock too. Meh, we'll see. Still got about a week anyway.

 

[chrisman287]

7v -> 2350
9v -> 1500
12v -> 1130
14v -> 970
16v -> 880
19v -> 800

That’s where mine is at with 0 deadtime. I didn’t bother to try to get afrest and wideband to match

 

[Stapl3]

7v -> 2988
9v -> 2142
12v -> 1266
14v -> 971
16v -> 789
19v -> 558


Just so future me can find it again.


I swear I used those and with deadtime pulled enough so that it would idle on it's own and AFRest/Wideband matched...it was a MF'er trying to get it to hot start. Might try again but double check more of the DA tables to make sure they're all stock too. Meh, we'll see. Still got about a week anyway.

Again, I think you created an impossible problem by NOT checking the "Disable MAF compensation w/SD operation". Literally everyone checks that box but you. It is my interpretation that by having that box unchecked, you'll still be SD, but you will also have your mafcomp sliders applied on top of that and your global scalar value. If this is the case, you'll be driving yourself insane trying to get anything right.

That aside.

If you want to start over I'll happily do the tune for you. But there would have to be only one cook in the kitchen if you know what I mean. Either way, your car, you do you.

At the end of the day I know you have mods and did XYZ but in the eyes of the ECU your car is basically stock aside of the fuel injectors. The ECU doesn't care about your exhaust or 16g or FMIC. This should be super easy, there's not much to do. Once you start making extreme changes then you're out in the weeds. The ecu is SO reliant on accurate airflow and ironically that's what everyone messes with because it's instant gratification.

You should be able to load in a bone stock tune, adjust for the fuel injectors, and be like 95% correct.

 

[Stapl3]

That’s where mine is at with 0 deadtime. I didn’t bother to try to get afrest and wideband to match

Then how did you arrive at those values as getting afratioest to match wideband is the entire game

 

[CrackedDSM]

Again, I think you created an impossible problem by NOT checking the "Disable MAF compensation w/SD operation". Literally everyone checks that box but you. It is my interpretation that by having that box unchecked, you'll still be SD, but you will also have your mafcomp sliders applied on top of that and your global scalar value. If this is the case, you'll be driving yourself insane trying to get anything right.

That aside.

If you want to start over I'll happily do the tune for you. But there would have to be only one cook in the kitchen if you know what I mean. Either way, your car, you do you.

At the end of the day I know you have mods and did XYZ but in the eyes of the ECU your car is basically stock aside of the fuel injectors. The ECU doesn't care about your exhaust or 16g or FMIC. This should be super easy, there's not much to do. Once you start making extreme changes then you're out in the weeds. The ecu is SO reliant on accurate airflow and ironically that's what everyone messes with because it's instant gratification.

You should be able to load in a bone stock tune, adjust for the fuel injectors, and be like 95% correct.

I didn't post a log, but when I say I reset everything I mean I unchecked that box and zero'ed out all the sliders too. I took your advice to heart, man. I really did.


I'm gonna try again, and this time I'll post logs and get critiques and help that way. I definitely want to do it the right way. When I said the "wrong way" tune, I was referring to the MAFComp SD maps. The "right way" tune I was trying/still gonna try, is with mafcomp disabled and totally ignored.


If I can't just load up a stock tune and it be 95% there...what would that be a problem indictive of? Because I'm running out of things to rule out. The only thing left at this point is bad engine or something.

 

[Stapl3]

If I can't just load up a stock tune and it be 95% there...what would that be a problem indictive of? Because I'm running out of things to rule out. The only thing left at this point is bad engine or something.

Keep working backwards. At that point I'd put in a stock fpr, 450s, stock maf, stock ecu. If you did those four things and the car's base ign timing is correct with no boost leaks, it should behave like the day it drove off the dealer lot.

You're not that deep into mods, I don't mean it in a bad way but the car is basically stock. This should be simple. The tighter you stay to stock tables, known deadtime values, etc the better you'll be. Any extreme adjustment should stop you in your tracks. A 16g is just a 14b that can hold boost to redline, a FMIC just has more area v. cooling ability, an exhaust just has less restriction. Nothing magical is going on here. As hard as it is to leave be, I'm telling you the SD table should resemble stock. Any drastic changes suggest an error elsewhere.

 

[chrisman287]

Then how did you arrive at those values as getting afratioest to match wideband is the entire game

I used this. For 7 and 19v I just eyeballed it based on stock

 

[CrackedDSM]

I used this. For 7 and 19v I just eyeballed it based on stock

View attachment 752702

Crazy. When they tested mine they flowed 1120.

 

[chrisman287]

Crazy. When they tested mine they flowed 1120.

That’s just the data sheet from FIC. I might try the settings from @Stapl3 but I haven’t had any issues so far. I drive the car every day

 

[chrisman287]

7v -> 2988
9v -> 2142
12v -> 1266
14v -> 971
16v -> 789
19v -> 558

So using these settings I did drop global down to -41.4 vs -44.9

Warm start and light cruising was about the same. I have to see if cold start is any different

 

[CrackedDSM]

So using these settings I did drop global down to -41.4 vs -44.9

Warm start and light cruising was about the same. I have to see if cold start is any different

How does it respond to revs from idle, and what happens if you let it get up to full operating temp and shut it off/try to restart it immediately?

 

[chrisman287]

How does it respond to revs from idle, and what happens if you let it get up to full operating temp and shut it off/try to restart it immediately?

Everything was fine. Cold start seemed a little better.

Can you upload a quick 5 second log. Would like to see your settings

 

[Stapl3]

So using these settings I did drop global down to -41.4 vs -44.9

That's not how global is to be adjusted, deadtime has absolutely nothing to do with global.

The values of deadtime from 7v to 19v simply creates a shape on the chart which is the behavior/personality of the injectors. That shape is to be left alone. Any deadtime adjustments additional would be done on the fuel tab as a global adjustment. You can go - or + as much as you want there guilt free.
The problem with the values used from 7v to 19v provided by FIC is I am not sure if they used DSM injector drivers to determine their values. If they don't, they're not of very good use for us.
The 7v to 19v values Dave and Tom at 'link came up with using their testing station I am 100% confident are the all end all values to use. That shape made on the chart using their values is set in stone and never to be changed.

Global adjustment is determined by matching afratioest and the wideband during a WOT pull at peak VE while the mafcomp slider is at zero or the SD value used is 100.

 

[chrisman287]

That's not how global is to be adjusted, deadtime has absolutely nothing to do with global.

The values of deadtime from 7v to 19v simply creates a shape on the chart which is the behavior/personality of the injectors. That shape is to be left alone. Any deadtime adjustments additional would be done on the fuel tab as a global adjustment. You can go - or + as much as you want there guilt free.

Interesting ok. I saw my STFT was around 8% so I lowered global to bring it down when I should’ve subtracted deadtime is that correct? Didn’t know I could go -

 

[enriquez2000]

Interesting ok. I saw my STFT was around 8% so I lowered global to bring it down when I should’ve subtracted deadtime is that correct? Didn’t know I could go -

Watch your combinedft... you want to increase deadtime to lean it out

If CombinedFT are mostly (-) decrease deadtime if mostly (+) increase deadtime.
After giving the dead time button a few click go back to your live datalog and see
if combinedFT got closer to 0 or not, keep repeating this process until you get the
combinedFT around 0.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Maybe I did something wrong, but using those deadtimes this car was an absolute nightmare to hot restart on those deadtimes. It took what felt like minutes of cranking and working the pedal before it finally fired. When it fired, it idled fine though.


When I went back to the MAFComp enabled tune, it restarted much easier with way less effort. I'll keep playing around though and go through all the tables this coming weekend and make sure everything is 100% stock and unmessed with. I'll post logs too. Can't post a log until then though, as I'm stuck at work.

 

[Stapl3]

Interesting ok. I saw my STFT was around 8% so I lowered global to bring it down when I should’ve subtracted deadtime is that correct? Didn’t know I could go -

Basically it's this:

Determine global via the process I said above. Then never change global % or base fuel pressure again. That is it's own completely separate thing.

Put in your 7v - 19v values. The reality is the only values used of those is like 12 and 14. Maybe lower if the battery is half dead. But I view that table as a shape. That shape is tattoo'd to the injectors as their operating personality. What values you choose to use may or may not determine how the injectors do in fact behave. Anyways, that is to be set in stone.

So we have global set in stone and 7v-19v set in stone. What's left? The VE table or the global deadtime adjustment on the fuel tab.

Well, I'm very conservative with leaving the SD table near "stock". It can be smoothed out for sure, it can be shifted for peak VE on a larger turbo for sure, but the ECU is SO reliant on the airflow values being realistic it's a cascading effect of shit being wrong when that is messed with too much. And ironically that is the table everyone messes with extremely because it's instant gratification.

Now it's boiled down to global deadtime, and the only way to adjust that would be on the fuel tab. You'll either lock it in open loop and make afratioest=wb during idle by adjusting the deadtime on the fuel tab, OR, you can leave it in closed loop and look at combinedFT as enriquez suggested above to get combinedFT hovering at a value of zero. I'm not a fan of using combinedFT because it's a clouded value using fuel trims. I guess it's fine if you do it over a period of time and constantly go up to "reset fuel trims" while making any single adjustment.

Didn’t know I could go -

The amount - or + you can go would be the limitation of 7v or 19v in relation to the top or bottom of that chart. Perhaps it could go more extreme but you'd be way out in the weeds with that.

Understand that the global adjustment on the fuel tab is the same as the 7v-19v adjustments. Putting 100 in deadtime on the fuel tab is the exact same thing as raising ALL 7v-19v values up 100. Putting -500 on the fuel tab is the same as lowering every 7v-19v value down 500. I guess if you were a masochist needing the value on the fuel tab to be 0 or never negative you could do so but there's no need.

 

[chrisman287]

Maybe I did something wrong, but using those deadtimes this car was an absolute nightmare to hot restart on those deadtimes. It took what felt like minutes of cranking and working the pedal before it finally fired. When it fired, it idled fine though.

The ones stapl3 posted? Are you still using the factory FPS?

I’m going to play with it some more tomorrow and I’ll update with my settings.

 

[chrisman287]

Found this online

 

[enriquez2000]

Found this online

View attachment 752843

Egr can be blocked off with an aluminum can

For easy testing

 

[CrackedDSM]

Found this online

View attachment 752843

1) Already done
2) also already done
3) brand new wires
4) TB is freshly rebuilt and is one of the last units bought from throttlebodies.com, has the half shaft mod and mirror polished plate
5) haven’t done this. All the piping is brand new though, but worth a shot on the inter cooler.


Does anyone know what that poster is referring to when he says black kludge box?

 

[chrisman287]

Does anyone know what that poster is referring to when he says black kludge box?

Hot start faq mentioned is what I posted before

I wonder if a red bottle of Heet will help

 

[CrackedDSM]

I saw that/found that as well after a search, but someone in the thread mentioned that 'If it just cranks but doesn't start that's not the hot start issue, the hot start issue is when it turns over but idles like crap' and that's not the problem I have. I have infinite cranking like its a carb'd vehicle that's vapor locked.


It doesn't have this issue on the MAF, and didn't have this issue on the very early struggle SD maps I had where it wouldn't idle because it was so rich. IDK why or what would have the power, but it's 100% tune related.