A/T ECU in M/T

[Amburger16]

Hello, I'm new here.. New to turbos, not to cars.

So, I grabbed up a 92 Talon FWD Turbo from a friend who let it sit for a good 4 years or so. He doesn't have a clue about cars, or anything to do with this. I've been finding things out as I go.

Last year, I got it to start when he still had it, but the ECU was blown to sh*t. It ran horrible. He bought an ECU for it, and it turned out to be for an AWD A/T. I plugged it in, a year later and I can't get it to start. Last night I finally got some motivation and drained the gas, replaced with high test and some sea foam. Just cranks and cranks. put some gas in the throttle body and it sounded like it really wanted to go, and I got some smoke out the tailpipe, so obviously I'm getting spark. Anyways, I know the basic troubleshooting.. I will continue tonight and see how the filter, etc is. What I really need to know, is if this AWD A/T ECU will work. Obviously the A/T turbo is smaller, so any tips to what I should change are very much welcome.

Basically the only thing I know about the car currently is 3" turbo back exhaust, rebuilt top end, and correct timing. He claims the guy he bought it from said there was a bigger turbo in it, so I will confirm that tonight and update.

Thanks!

 

[Maddashimports-Matt]

Was the ecu out of a 90? If so you will have to swap pin 6 & 14. But awd or not, a/t or manual it should work. The a/t ecu just has different mapping and is set up for 390cc injectors. Also have to consider if its federal or ca emissions.

 

[Maddashimports-Matt]

Also pull the lid off the ecu and make sure the capacitors are not leaking as well.

 

[Amburger16]

Was the ecu out of a 90? If so you will have to swap pin 6 & 14. But awd or not, a/t or manual it should work. The a/t ecu just has different mapping and is set up for 390cc injectors. Also have to consider if its federal or ca emissions.

I will grab the number off of it tonight and see if I can figure out what year its from. Its difficult sometimes, you get conflicting answers everywhere. So if anyone knows a location where I can get confirmed numbers and applications that would be awesome.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

See if this reference helps out. I grabbed it off of one of Snowboarder's post's (thanks Brian).
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/dsm-ecu-part-numbers.395118/

 

[Amburger16]

See if this reference helps out. I grabbed it off of one of Snowboarder's post's (thanks Brian).
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/dsm-ecu-part-numbers.395118/

Thanks!

 

[Maddashimports-Matt]

http://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/epromid Heres a good one from ecmlink's site

 

[steve]

See if this reference helps out. I grabbed it off of one of Snowboarder's post's (thanks Brian).
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/dsm-ecu-part-numbers.395118/

The link in that thread sends you to the ECU ID list I put together on my site. Let me know if you have any questions. Assuming you have a Federal Emissions car you should have a MD166260 ECU.

The AT ECU should at least start the car, considering how rich the initial startup fueling is the difference between the auto's 390cc injectors (running at 43.5psi) and the manual's 450cc injectors (running at 37 psi) is only about 20cc/min. So, I'm expecting there is more going on than just the wrong ECU.

 

[Amburger16]

The link in that thread sends you to the ECU ID list I put together on my site. Let me know if you have any questions. Assuming you have a Federal Emissions car you should have a MD166260 ECU.

The AT ECU should at least start the car, considering how rich the initial startup fueling is the difference between the auto's 390cc injectors (running at 43.5psi) and the manual's 450cc injectors (running at 37 psi) is only about 20cc/min. So, I'm expecting there is more going on than just the wrong ECU.

So the ECU in it is MD165531. I've narrowed it down to it not getting fuel, so I'm going go through the basics tonight and see what the issue is. After I fix that, hopefully I can get some insight on how to address the injector/psi issue.. All new to me.

 

[steve]

Make sure you check the circuit board for capacitor leakage or poorly done repairs. The white edge connector should be stamped with 6582 if it's the right circuit board for that ECU.

Since everything in the fuel system could be gummed up I'd change the fuel filter, pull the fuel rail and clean/test the injectors, then replace the injector insulators and o-rings, and check the fuel pressure after pulling it back together.

See if you can find/make a 1G Datalogger, you want to make sure that the engine coolant temp sensor is reporting the correct temp since bad readings will cause starting issues and you'll need the logger going forward.

 

[Amburger16]

Make sure you check the circuit board for capacitor leakage or poorly done repairs. The white edge connector should be stamped with 6582 if it's the right circuit board for that ECU.

Since everything in the fuel system could be gummed up I'd change the fuel filter, pull the fuel rail and clean/test the injectors, then replace the injector insulators and o-rings, and check the fuel pressure after pulling it back together.

See if you can find/make a 1G Datalogger, you want to make sure that the engine coolant temp sensor is reporting the correct temp since bad readings will cause starting issues and you'll need the logger going forward.

I checked the ECU before plugging it in, I'll have to check for the "6582". Picking up an o-ring kit and filter tonight after work, so I'll start there and see how it goes.

 

[Amburger16]

Make sure you check the circuit board for capacitor leakage or poorly done repairs. The white edge connector should be stamped with 6582 if it's the right circuit board for that ECU.


Since everything in the fuel system could be gummed up I'd change the fuel filter, pull the fuel rail and clean/test the injectors, then replace the injector insulators and o-rings, and check the fuel pressure after pulling it back together.

See if you can find/make a 1G Datalogger, you want to make sure that the engine coolant temp sensor is reporting the correct temp since bad readings will cause starting issues and you'll need the logger going forward.

Ok, so my brief encounter with the car tonight before it starting pouring once again.. got the fuel rail out so I could examine in the house.. has 390 injectors in it (INP-008). The ecu does have 6582 on it.

I honestly wish I could find the person that did this, so I could just figure out what's going on.

I see a rainbow in the distance so I will continue in a bit and get the fuel filter in.

 

[steve]

I hope it has the Auto Fuel Pressure regulator in the rail too. Those injectors with a manual FPR wouldn't be good. While you are in there take a picture in the turbo.

 

[Amburger16]

I hope it has the Auto Fuel Pressure regulator in the rail too. Those injectors with a manual FPR wouldn't be good. While you in there take a picture in the turbo.

How would I identify the fuel pressure regulator?

Housing is a td05 and here's a picture of the blades

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Amburger16]

http://imgur.com/pyNkXWl
Not sure if the other one worked, my phones being stupid

 

[steve]

I'm afraid I can't help with ID'ing the turbo or easily telling which FPR is which. The various regulators may start out life as the same part and then have their tops bent to set the base pressure based on a few threads I found. Would be nice if they marked them after but I can't find any clear and consistant case that there is.

Best guess on the turbo given that is has 12 fins is a 14b but as you can tell I'm not a turbo expert by a long shot.

 

[Amburger16]

I'm afraid I can't help with ID'ing the turbo or easily telling which FPR is which. The various regulators may start out life as the same part and then have their tops bent to set the base pressure based on a few threads I found. Would be nice if they
marked them after but I can't find any clear and consistant case that there is

Best guess on the turbo given that is has 12 fins is a 14b but as you can tell I'm not a turbo expert by a long shot.

All the threads I have found seem to see 12 fin is 14b, so I'll assume that for now. I'll see if I can find the numbers off it today. I guess I will just have to get an apfr.

Thanks for your help, I'm sure I'll have more questions later.

 

[Amburger16]

So it is a 14b.

I have also tested everything fuel related other then pressure which will have to wait until I can get a tester. Still won't start. I don't have a clue where to go from here.

 

[steve]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/how-to-diagnose-a-no-start.217951/#post-152649702

Start by making sure your ECU is actually working before jumping onto the steps listed.

The starter will crank the engine without an ECU and you can set spark without all the the ECU working correctly, so make sure the CEL turns on for 5 seconds and than turns off, that the factory boost gauge moves to zero before cranking, and drops into vacuum while cranking. Connecting a analog volt meter, 12v Piezo buzzer, or 12v LED across pins 1 and 10 of the 1G DLC looking for the ECU heartbeat it outputs when it has no codes and is alive is another indication that it's not dead.

Like I said before the ECT sensor can cause the car not to start by telling the ECU it's -34F out which caused the ECU to drown the engine with fuel. Pull the spark plugs and make sure they aren't fuel fouled.

 

[Amburger16]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/how-to-diagnose-a-no-start.217951/#post-152649702

Start by making sure your ECU is actually working before jumping onto the steps listed.

The starter will crank the engine without an ECU and you can set spark without all the the ECU working correctly, so make sure the CEL turns on for 5 seconds and than turns off, that the factory boost gauge moves to zero before cranking, and drops into vacuum while cranking. Connecting a analog volt meter, 12v Piezo buzzer, or 12v LED across pins 1 and 10 of the 1G DLC looking for the ECU heartbeat it outputs when it has no codes and is alive is another indication that it's not dead.

Like I said before the ECT sensor can cause the car not to start by telling the ECU it's -34F out which caused the ECU to drown the engine with fuel. Pull the spark plugs and make sure they aren't fuel fouled.

No cel, boost gauge doesn't move at all. Stays below -0.5. Only lights are battery, what I believe to be is coolant and brake, and none of them go out while cranking. I'll check spark plugs now and I'm drawing a blank on "DLC"

 

[steve]

Check the MPI fuse on the Battery Terminal and the room fuse (I forget the #) in the driver footwell fusebox to make sure your getting power to the ECU.

If they are good, it's time to either swap ECU's or debug some more following http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/1g-basic-ecu-mpi-circuit-function.435961/

Right now your ECU isn't working so it's not surprising it doesn't start.

DLC = Diagnostic Link Connector. The cream colored connector attached to the side of the drivers footwell fusebox

 

[Amburger16]

Well that makes sense... I'll try it tomorrow. I do know that the owner previous to my boyfriends brother, installed a pretty big sound system and that's when it started running like garbage. Nobody could figure out the issue, I looked at the ecu and all the capacitors were leaking really bad, and alot of bubbling/melted parts. I got it to start with that ecu in it, but it was rough and wasn't drivable. He bought this ecu, and it hasn't started since. Nothing has been done to it until the past few days in over a year. So, I'm definitely thinking this ecu is garbage, but I'll definitely check out the fuses and everything tomorrow. Any suggestions on where to buy an ecu if it is the issue? I would rather order one then buy privately and end up with junk.

 

[Amburger16]

Check the MPI fuse on the Battery Terminal and the room fuse (I forget the #) in the driver footwell fusebox to make sure your getting power to the ECU.

If they are good, it's time to either swap ECU's or debug some more following http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/1g-basic-ecu-mpi-circuit-function.435961/

Right now your ECU isn't working so it's not surprising it doesn't start.

DLC = Diagnostic Link Connector. The cream colored connector attached to the side of the drivers footwell fusebox

Plugged the old ecu in and got a cel, boost, etc. Hasn't started but it wants to, I know it will run like garbage anyways so I might as well start a search for an ecu.

 

[Amburger16]

Check the MPI fuse on the Battery Terminal and the room fuse (I forget the #) in the driver footwell fusebox to make sure your getting power to the ECU.

If they are good, it's time to either swap ECU's or debug some more following http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/1g-basic-ecu-mpi-circuit-function.435961/

Right now your ECU isn't working so it's not surprising it doesn't start.

DLC = Diagnostic Link Connector. The cream colored connector attached to the side of the drivers footwell fusebox

So turns out where the previous owner bought the ECU has a lifetime warranty on their products, so they're sending another one. This one is MD166260, so actually a M/T FWD ecu.. Should I just not even bother attempting to make to run until I get bigger injectors and an APFR?

 

[steve]

It sounds like the only thing that was from an automatic car was the "spare" ECU. You seem to have the stock 14b and there's a good chance you have the stock 450cc injectors so once you have the replacement MD166260 you should be good to move forward and find out what else needs attention.