99 Spyder 2.4 TURBO!!

[willye_br]

Hey guys,

i own a 1999 DsM spyder 2.4 engine i will be turbo-charging my car very soon i know i have to use most GST/GSX parts as a BOLT ON. my question is i ONLY WANT 7-8 PSI max just for a little more fun i was going to do the stock T25 turbo With all stock parts from GST. i have a Guy selling a T28 turbo which looks kinda the same i dont know if it will fit? So what turbo should i get for around 7 PSI boost?

T25
T28
14B

please anyone that could give an opinion and tell me about the T28,T25 and 14B differences i would really appreciate it .

thanks guys

 

[dawid4444]

go with T25 cause u only want 7/8 psi
so it will be good enough
or go wit T28 if u want someting more in the future

T28 is the same turbo what T25 but T28 has bigger compresor wheel and its better

 

[willye_br]

So the t25 and T28 is the same turbo? whats the difference? like SIZE or will i need extra parts to put a T28?

 

[08talon08]

go with a t25 if u want more boost in the future there good for 14psi but on the other hand a 14b is deff capable of 7 to 8 psi and spools faster

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

go with a t25 if u want more boost in the future there good for 14psi but on the other hand a 14b is deff capable of 7 to 8 psi and spools faster

Its the other way, a T25 will spool faster but the 14b will flow more. If you only want 7psi then the T25 is your BEST bet, but beware, you will want more. The difference between a T25 and a T28 cosmetically is nothing, they both look exactly the same, but the T28 will make more power and only when ran at higher boost levels(also in due because the t25 runs out of steam at very low boost). The T28 also spools slower.

 

[Doubleot]

I would say get a 14b straight up. Trust me, your definitely going to want more boost eventually.
I'd recommend a MBC as well.

Post up pics of this work in progress.

 

[The4g63tKid]

I Would Put The 14B Or T28 Because Youll Want More Boost Eventualy Like Doubleot Said T25 I Really Dont Think Is Worth It If You Gonna Do Something Do It The Best You Can Just In Case And If You Want 7-8 PSI Believe Me Youll Want More And The 14B And T28 Will Be There For You I Preffer 14B Honestly And The CAPS Are Just A Habit That Im Trying To Leave

 

[agentorange313]

I run a 14b. its a great turbo. I wanted to get a 16g for a while but ever since I was able to tune my 14b real well, the 16g seems to be just too expensive of a mod for my daily driver.

I think this will help you out:

Turbo Model Compressor Airflow @ 2:1 Pressure Ratio
Stock 1g Automatic --TD04-13G-5 -- 360CFM
Stock 1g Manual -- TD05H-14B-6 -- 430CFM
Stock 2g Manual/Auto --Garrett T25 -- 330CFM
Aftermarket 1g Bolton --Garrett T28 -- 400CFM
Stock Evo I-II -- TD05H-16g-7 -- 505CFM
Stock Evo III -- TD05H-16g6-7 -- 550CFM
Stock Evo IV-IX -- SAME AS ABOVE, but with reverse blades
Aftermarket 18g -- TD05H-18g-7 -- 590CFM
Aftermarket 20g -- TD05H-20g-7-- 650CFM


This was taken directly from robert bowen and rober garcia of RRE:

"Instead of the good sized MHI turbos installed on the 1g, the 2g manual got a Garret T25 turbo that is actually just barely adequate for the stock horsepower rating. Its spools very quickly, but it will not hold much boost at high RPM. "

"Note that the t25 does not share the same outlet position, oil, or waterlines ad the MHI turbos."

 

[willye_br]

Well im not going past 8 PSI for sure because my engine is a 2.4 and it will have stock internals i dont want to melt anything the reason why i want 8 PSI its because my engine will handle it with stock parts and will give me around 210 HP thats all i need .I am a little short in cash so i want to do a simple project.

Between T25 and T28 which one should i get for a simple 8 PSI project?

HELP ME OUT GUYS

Thanks

 

[vanilla gorilla]

Guys, it doesnt matter, how much boost he will want later on, because until he builds his internals he is very limited. I own a Turbo Spyder GS. I run a 14b, but a t25 will work just fine. And since you want to run 7-8psi, you will need to run a factory GST downpipe and a somewhat restrictive exhaust, otherwise you will get boost creep up into the teens.

 

[willye_br]

how much did you spend to turbo your car? around how much i added everything up today and for $800 i can get basically everything i need from turbo to stock GST parts to 450cc injectors ,downpipe,fuel pump but than i would have a mechanic install it which would be a HECK of labor around how much did you spend just to turbo it?

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

Guys, it doesnt matter, how much boost he will want later on, because until he builds his internals he is very limited. I own a Turbo Spyder GS. I run a 14b, but a t25 will work just fine. And since you want to run 7-8psi, you will need to run a factory GST downpipe and a somewhat restrictive exhaust, otherwise you will get boost creep up into the teens.

You do know the rods are the same as the turbo model, and the pistons are just higher compression, the internals do not limit him at all.

 

[manny correa]

id go with the 14b! better top end, and as jeffereycastgsx said, your internals can hold the boost.

 

[vanilla gorilla]

You do know the rods are the same as the turbo model, and the pistons are just higher compression, the internals do not limit him at all.

Ok then, I do not know what I am talking about. I have not built, rebuilt, and rebuilt again a Turbo Spyder GS over the past 5 years. No one listen to me, listen to this guy right here, obviously he knows more than I do.

EVEN IF internals were not a factor, there is still other problems. The 4g64 has no knock sensor, and therefore no knock/timing retard.......and again, what does that mean?? Your limited. So before you need a big turbo, before you need to build your internals......if you want to run more than a small amount of boost (7-9 pounds), you will need to add and wire in a knock sensor along with a stock 4g63 turbo ECU, and bypass the factory fuel pump wiring and relay (simply doing a rewire on your aftermarket fuel pump will work here). There is so much money to be spent and work to be done before you make power from a Spyder GS. Honestly for the dollar value you are better off just doing a full 4G63T swap.

PLEASE do your research before you buy anything. And everybody else please do your research before you chime in.
Thank you.

 

[Choch1]

ok then, i do not know what i am talking about. I have not built, rebuilt, and rebuilt again a turbo spyder gs over the past 5 years. No one listen to me, listen to this guy right here, obviously he knows more than i do.

Even if internals were not a factor, there is still other problems. The 4g64 has no knock sensor, and therefore no knock/timing retard.......and again, what does that mean?? Your limited. So before you need a big turbo, before you need to build your internals......if you want to run more than a small amount of boost (7-9 pounds), you will need to add and wire in a knock sensor along with a stock 4g63 turbo ecu, and bypass the factory fuel pump wiring and relay (simply doing a rewire on your aftermarket fuel pump will work here). There is so much money to be spent and work to be done before you make power from a spyder gs. Honestly for the dollar value you are better off just doing a full 4g63t swap.

Please do your research before you buy anything. And everybody else please do your research before you chime in.
Thank you.

pwnt!

 

[SlowSpyder]

I run a big-t28 on my 2.4L spyder. Just a warning, you wont be satisfied with just 7-9lbs. The power becomes very addictive.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Before you go turbo I'd look into doing a DOHC head swap. Then turbo it.

 

[hubz91talontsi]

14b 20psi e85. easy.

 

[mulato1978]

how much did you spend to turbo your car? around how much i added everything up today and for $800 i can get basically everything i need from turbo to stock GST parts to 450cc injectors ,downpipe,fuel pump but than i would have a mechanic install it which would be a HECK of labor around how much did you spend just to turbo it?

dude based on my experience and i just converted my spyder gs into a spyder gs turbo , i spent somthing close to the 6500 to 7000 dlls for the whole conversion including labor wich would be the most expensive part if you dont know how to do it yourself, plus you have to make shure the people you take you car to knows what they are doing, since a lot of the parts have to be custom made since there are not any after market parts for the 4g64 , and the most important thing since i had a lot of problems with it, the electric wiring!!! i went to a lot of trouble with it to get the injectors to work right , i had a EMS ultimate and it wouldnt work right so i ended up having to istall an apexi one then i had to spend like 600 dlls just to get it tune right , since the people from the shop first tuned it as if i was going to be racing every day!!! and i was going trough a full tank of gas in less than 30 miles it was fun im not going to lie but since this is my every day driving car i couldnt do that so i had to tune it for some sort of gas economy too!! i still got power and my full tank last more than 30 miles! good luck with your proyect and it all depends on what you want and what you are willing to spend.

Before you go turbo I'd look into doing a DOHC head swap. Then turbo it.

dont you think that since hes going to need a lot of parts from the 2.0 engine for the DOHC swap that it would be easier to do the turbo first then the head swap? im about to start with my DOHC swap and since my 4g64 is allready turbo converted i dont need as many parts as if i didnt have the turbo on it.

 

[vanilla gorilla]

6500 to 7k??? Wow.
You shouldnt need to spend anymore than $1500-2000. And the electrical part isn't that bad. When you swap injectors you have to wire in a stock resistor pack. As far as fuel management goes, all you really need is an SAFC.

And the only parts you need from a 4g63t (to do the headswap) is the head itself, thermostat housing, 4g63t ECU, and wire it all up. You may need a turbo throttle body also, in order for all the sensors to work with the ECU.

 

[m_0ney_pit]

don't get a t25 you'll only get about 160-170 hp on reasonable boost (7-10 psi) not worth it.
you'll be happy with a 14b or 16g

to run a 16g at 8-9 psi you need to port the wastegate and get a tubular o2 and a 2.5 inch or stock exhaust wit a cat!

probably the same for a 14b

check out my dyno for a map of the boost level per rpm, i have a 2.5 inch exhaust and 34mm flapper and its ported with a b16g.

 

[mulato1978]

6500 to 7k??? Wow.
You shouldnt need to spend anymore than $1500-2000. And the electrical part isn't that bad. When you swap injectors you have to wire in a stock resistor pack. As far as fuel management goes, all you really need is an SAFC.

And the only parts you need from a 4g63t (to do the headswap) is the head itself, thermostat housing, 4g63t ECU, and wire it all up. You may need a turbo throttle body also, in order for all the sensors to work with the ECU.

like i said labor cost are the most expensive!! at least here is a minimun of 80 to 100 dlls per hr. yeah i found out about the resistor pack the hard way, thats why i said you have to make shure the people whos gonna be working on your car know what are they doing!! what about the CAS?

 

[MidShipCivic]

Knock sensor smock sensor. I have a 7 bolt 4g64 in my Talon and I grounded the knock sensor it's too sensitive, however I don't lower octane fuels it's only common sense..

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

Ok then, I do not know what I am talking about. I have not built, rebuilt, and rebuilt again a Turbo Spyder GS over the past 5 years. No one listen to me, listen to this guy right here, obviously he knows more than I do.

EVEN IF internals were not a factor, there is still other problems. The 4g64 has no knock sensor, and therefore no knock/timing retard.......and again, what does that mean?? Your limited. So before you need a big turbo, before you need to build your internals......if you want to run more than a small amount of boost (7-9 pounds), you will need to add and wire in a knock sensor along with a stock 4g63 turbo ECU, and bypass the factory fuel pump wiring and relay (simply doing a rewire on your aftermarket fuel pump will work here). There is so much money to be spent and work to be done before you make power from a Spyder GS. Honestly for the dollar value you are better off just doing a full 4G63T swap.

PLEASE do your research before you buy anything. And everybody else please do your research before you chime in.
Thank you.

Um ok, looks like you know more than me since you know my life, and you compared it to yours making you the better person. The internals are THE LAST HE SHOULD ever worry about. The knock sensor is just a bolt-on away and of course he OBVIOUSLY has to have a good tune, remember there are only 2 kinds of tunes, a good one and a bad one. If you really think that he should swap a 4g63T then it shows something about you. A 4g64 has .4L more than a 4g63T, it can and will create more torque, it utilizes the same rods as the 4g63T too, the same rods that propel people to 500whp+, the same rods on which curt brown made 47?awhp WHILE ON A 16G. The 4g64 also has higher compression and when tuned right WILL make more power than a 4g63T at any boost level while on the same turbo. We all know how overrated crankwalk but a 4g64 isnt prone to it, and its due to no oil squirters, and yes that is a good thing. I guess ill research this next time.

Oh and some here have stated a fallacy, a T25 at 7-10psi WILL MAKE MORE POWER than a 14b/16g at the same boost, once you start cranking the boost then that is when the 14/16g starts to flow more.

 

[SlowSpyder]

like i said labor cost are the most expensive!! at least here is a minimun of 80 to 100 dlls per hr. yeah i found out about the resistor pack the hard way, thats why i said you have to make shure the people whos gonna be working on your car know what are they doing!! what about the CAS?

If you use a stock turbo ecu then you dont need to worry about the cas since it gets its signal from the 2.4L cas. No need to wire in a resistor pack, just buy either some high impedance 440s or 550s from RC engineering. Like vanilla gorilla said, the electrical is bad at all. Wire in the knock sensor and rewire 1 or 2 relays and your done.(Ill try to look up the website for relay rewire).