Resolved 420A Fuel injector noise?

[redondoaveb]

Hi Guys,

I've been trying to isolate a ticking that occurred since my timing belt, bent valves, new head issue.

When I got my car back from the shop I noticed a ticking that I assumed was the lifters. Just had the lifters replaced and the noise is still there.

Went to trusty Harbor Freight last night and picked up a stethoscope.

After listening to various areas (exhaust manifold, valve cover and intake manifold), I've isolated the noise to the upper intake plenum, opposite the throttle body. Does that sound like a noisy fuel injector?

This noise is driving me crazy!

I tried to upload a video from Youtube on another one of my threads but for some reason it wouldn't upload. Don't know what I did wrong. If you want to listen to the noise, it can be found on Youtube. It's under "Eclipse top end noise".

What do you guys think?

 

[Tim_I]

My old stock injectors sounded like that. I had two that sounded like bad lifters. one ended up having the plastic end that go's into the head broken apart. I would pull them and take a quick look at them.

Edit: Def doesnt sound like a injector to me sounds like something rattling around...

 

[spadepro22]

Take your YouTube link and post it here in your thread. You will probably get more answers.

 

[Tim_I]

Eclipse top end noise - YouTube

his you tube video

 

[1995silvergst]

Sounds like a intake valve did they replace them all with all hardware?

 

[redondoaveb]

Tim. Thanks for posting the video for me. The head was replaced with all new valves. When I put the stethoscope on the valve cover I don't hear the noise through the stethoscope. I opened the filler cap and it didn't get louder either.

Tried it on the exhaust manifold and no noise.

When I put the stethoscope on the upper plenum of the intake manifold it gets really loud, especially on the opposite side of the throttle body.

I hope it's only a fuel injector.

 

[luv2rallye]

Try adding a can of this to the oil. It works miracles for sticky lifters.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=77837&d=1195256072

 

[WES_393]

That doesn't sound like an injector or typical lifter tick to me. Something is knocking pretty hard and only at certain RPM's. Since the work was done by a shop, it's possible that they kept the intake manifold support bracket (most of us throw it out). That would take any noise from the bottom end and send it straight to the intake manifold. I hope I'm wrong, but that sounds like a problem with the bottom end...

Do you know what condition the pistons were in after the timing jumped? Have you checked the oil for any metal flakes?

 

[redondoaveb]

That doesn't sound like an injector or typical lifter tick to me. Something is knocking pretty hard and only at certain RPM's. Since the work was done by a shop, it's possible that they kept the intake manifold support bracket (most of us throw it out). That would take any noise from the bottom end and send it straight to the intake manifold. I hope I'm wrong, but that sounds like a problem with the bottom end...

Do you know what condition the pistons were in after the timing jumped? Have you checked the oil for any metal flakes?

The shop looked at the pistons after removing the head and said there was no damage. A compression check was done after rebuild and all cylinders were up to spec.

Oil was changed also, not sure if the shop looked for any metal particles in the oil.

Car runs good, the noise is just irritating.

 

[redondoaveb]

Back again guys. I've just been driving the car the was it is and the noise hasn't gotten any worse but very annoying. Decided to take it in and get to the bottom of the problem.

Shop is saying "rod bearings" (as was suggested on this forum). I'm waiting for a cost to replace bearings and I'm assuming crank resurfacing at the least. Will they have to pull the motor for this work? What would you guys think is a reasonable cost for this work?

I was on Ebay and there is a local shop (atlanta auto in North Hollywood) that has a rebuilt long block for $895.00 with free delivery. I'm wondering if that might be the better way to go.

What do you guys think? All input is appreciated.

 

[BogusSVO]

You have been driving it for 4 months with the same noise and it has not gotten worse? I doubt that is a rod bearing fail. When rod bearings spin/fail they go quick, like a few miles, maybe a few more if you really baby it.

Did you ever take your stethoscope and listen to each injector?

 

[redondoaveb]

Yeah, noise has stayed the same. The shop hasn't given me a definite on the rod bearing diagnosis, still waiting for their call.

I didn't use the stethoscope on each injector but I could hear the noise really loud on the air intake plenum by the number one cylinder. Could they unplug each injector individually and see if the noise stops? How would you diagnose a bad injector?

Also, the car didn't have this noise prior to my timing belt breakage and bent valve issue. I'm wondering how all of a sudden when they put the top end back together the noise starts up.

 

[BogusSVO]

Yes you can unplug each injector. It will cause a miss in that cylinder.

There is test equipment for checking injectors, some tests can be done with a DVOM, flow testing is done on a injector flow stand.

You may just want to have the car fired up and at idle, and just reach in and touch each injector.

 

[redondoaveb]

I just got off the phone with the shop, they say that they checked all area's of the motor with a stethoscope and it's definitely the rod bearings. Noise is extremely loud with the stethoscope on the oil pan and gets louder as the motor gets warmer (oil thins out).

I don't know how I can doubt them but I'd sure like to hear that it's something else.

Went in to the shop to talk to the guys in person this morning. I asked why they needed to pull the motor if the problem is rod bearings. He said no, its not rod bearings, it's the things that hold the pistons. I said "rods" and he said "no, the things that go through the pistons". I said "you mean wrist pins" and he said "yeah, they are bad." I said "gimme my car", I'll talk to you next week.

Well, I stopped by another mechanic on the way home (recommended by a bunch of friends) and he thinks it's in the top end. I have an appointment on Monday to drop the car off.

He said that he'll diagnose the problem for no charge and only charge me if he ends up doing the repairs.

Guess who I'm going with?

If these new guys find out it has something to do with the previous work, I'm going back to the first shop and see if I can get money back from them. I've given them ample opportunity to diagnose and fix the problem and all that they can come with is speculation.

 

[redondoaveb]

Update for the guys that were following my other thread "fuel injector?". Went to the shop today to talk to the mechanic in person. Yesterday they told me that the noise was rod bearings. I go in today and now all of a sudden it's wrist pins.

Well, I'm fed up with these guys as they don't have a clue. I picked up my car and stopped by a highly recommended shop right afterwards. Their mechanic listened to the noise and thinks it's in the top end.

I'm dropping it off to them Monday morning and he said he will diagnose it at no charge based on him doing the repairs when he finds out what is wrong.

I'll update this thread when I get the results.

Thanks to everyone who has tried to help on this.

 

[performance]

Good luck buddy. I hope it works out for you. I went to a shop recently in my dd elantra. The ac wouldn't hold pressure for more than 2-3 days. they quoted me $1,300 in "ac" repaires. I laughed and said "thank you for your time." Went to the salvage yard and grabbed a high and low pressure hose. 2 months later my ac is still working. Best part is it cost a total of $60 bucks. Moral of the story.... Do not trust anyone you don't know to work on your car. Get multiple quotes. Drive or have it towed a distance to a place that you know will treat you right. Get it fixed right the first time. Money doesn't grow on trees. There are a lot of Cali guys on here. Make a thread for reputable shops in your area. many people are willing to help.

 

[redondoaveb]

I had my motor torn apart and the mechanic found scoring on the number one and four crank journals and rod bearings.

Could the damage to the rod bearings and journals have happened when the timing belt broke and valves hit the pistons?

Just wondering what could have caused this damage. Any ideas?

 

[FalzonMotorsports]

I've heard engines with piston slap, wrist pin failure, and rod knock, They all sound similar.

Unfortunately the end result is that your engine has to come apart. Hopefully it hasn't gone to far to spin a main bearing or damage a bore.

 

[redondoaveb]

Engine is apart. Found scoring on number one and four rod journals and bearings. This all started with my water pump seizing and shredding the timing belt which in turn bent valves.

I'm having the motor completely rebuilt.

I'm wondering if the valves hitting the pistons could have had anything to do with the rod bearing damage?

I don't know what else it could be as oil was always changed at the proper intervals and was never low.