2g road race build

[dsmtalontsi95]

First let me say I searched. The car is a 97 awd with a fresh motor making good power. I'm confident that the drive train will be up to par as well as I'm ordering a shep stage 3 trans. So I need some guidence with the handeling par.From those articles I did learn to use hawk pads and braded lines with super blue fluid (dot 5). For rotors, should I just get cheep ones for the track or spend money to get nicer ones? I know if I get nicer rotors to just get slotted, not cross drilled. Now for the suspenssion, I don't know where to start. The car is my "fun" car not my "dd". For strut tower bars, do I get rre's or is there a better available brand that is stiff (I herd the ebay ones are junk). For shocks and struts I don't know where to start, same as sway bars. Now money is a little tight after the engine build but I plan on making this an all around nice car that serves as a road course car/1/4 car.

 

[turbosax2]

Rotors:
Go with NAPA stock sized rotors. They're cheap and easy to find. You may want to carry an extra set with you to the track just in case too. The pads are what make most of the difference, not the rotors.

Or, if you have some money to work with look into the TCE kits.
TCE Performance Products - Producing Winning Results since 1993

They have very nice kits that have been proven and a bunch of guys here on the forums are using them. And you are right - don't get cross drilled rotors. If you do go with the TCE kit check out the "HD Race Front 13.0 x 1.25" because the thicker rotor is less likely to crack.




Strut tower bars -
Lots of people say the ebay ones work just fine, other people say that if the bar is adjustable it's junk, and still others say that the only bars that are good are ones that triangulate and also bolt to the firewall. So who knows. I want to get DC Sport strut bars because they look nice, aren't adjustable, and they look extremely sturdy. But they are a lot more expensive than ebay ones.




Shocks -
If you really want to get into racing with this car consider getting a set of coilovers. You will be able to adjust height, dampening, and you can get your car corner balanced to fine tune it. Research Megan Racing, Tein, JIC, D2, and Ksport.




Sway bars -
RM sway bars. Nuff said.
Modern Automotive Performance :: DSM :: Suspension and Brakes :: Swaybars :: RM Racing Front and Rear Sway Bar Kit (2G)

Only replace your rear sway bar unless you have enough other suspension modifications that you can adjust for a stiffer front sway bar.


And basically everything I just said can be found here:
Tech Guide: 2G Road Race Setup - DSMtuners

 

[underradar92]

I agree. In addition to that I'd say, if your current struts aren't worn out, don't buy a bunch of suspension stuff before going to the track. If you are confident (check it all) in the condition and alignment of all the stock stuff, go out & have at it. That way the car will kind of tell you what's lacking, before you drop a ton of coin. That'll come soon enough.

The one possible exception I'll make is the rear anti sway bar. The consensus seems to skew towards both gen.s having a lot of (read: safe) neutral throttle understeer. Unless you don't mind plowing through all the corners all day, that may be a good start. You will be needing one eventually anyhoo.

Oh yeah, I'm sure it's what you meant but use DOT 5.1 not DOT 5, as that is the non- compatable silicone stuff.

 

[asian312]

I agree with underradar92. If your car is in good mechanical condition, just slap on some 'track friendly' brake pads and go get some seat time (with an instructor of course). I went out bone stock with only RM sways (front and back) and I'm glad I did. Gives you a real eye awakener as to what may come (for most of us an unhealthy addiction, but hey it's better than smoking). It also showed that in stock form that the limiting factor wasn't the hardware, but the brains behind the wheel. Driver mod is the best mod for track driving and starting with a more stock setup will aid greatly in attaining the basics. Here's kinda the progression mod wise with my 2G:

Brakes: Porterfield R4-E (front only) with what ever rotor you can find (O'Rielly). The pads make all the difference and the rotors are eaten by race pads at a fairly alarming rate. I would get 2-3 weekends (6 days worth) on a set before replacing them. But at $20 a pop it's cheap insurance. Brake fluid is another very important component. For beginners on a budget I recommend Valvoline Syntech. Then move you're way up to ATE or Mutol. SS lines are optional in my book unless your stock ones are damaged.

Tires: One of the best bang for bucks mod. Increases corning ability and stopping (remember tires do the stopping). Choose from a healthy selection of sizes and then choose suspension as certain setups will affect that decision. Start with street tires first. Temptation to go R-comps will hinder your progression as a driver as they hide mistakes. Kumho MXs are great starters with good traction, stiff sidewalls, decent wear, and kind on the wallet. I opted for the Bridgestone RE050A. Wear like iron and phenomenal in the rain.
7" wide rim - 225/45/17
7.5" - 8" wide rim (42-38 offset) - 235/40/17 or 235/45/17
8" - 9" wide rim (40-35 offset) - 245/40/17 (may require rolling fenders)
9"or wider rim (35 offset) - 255/40/17 (requires rolling fenders and stiffer springs with minimal drop, non-tuck setup)

Suspension: After some seat time this question will be much easier to answer. Mainly as to what is deemed tolerable and meets what ever compromises. At the time I started DEs I was also daily driving my GSX. To meet those demands I used Koni Yellows and H&R OE springs (yes they say they are for the GST, but they fit and work just fine). For me, this was the perfect dual duty setup. Provided very good feedback during turn in and was comfortable to attack garage speed bumps. Combined with the RMs I got many accolades from instructors on the car's stance and handling ability. If you are more serious, then step up to Konis/GC, Megans, Teins, or JICS. Options are pretty plentiful unless you want a full race setup. Muellerized JICs, Hotbits, KW V3, or custom sounds about right.

Strut tower bar: still don't run them, but maybe something to try later on.

Sways: RM, nuff said (specially if you have a 3" exhaust)

Seats/Harness/Rollbar or Rollcage: Often very overlooked, all the road handling in the work means nothing if you can't stay in the driver's seat. Plus photo ops look funny with your upper torso out the window on right handers. Just remember these come as a package and requires all 3 components.

And most importantly...have Fun! And get plenty of seat time!

 

[dsmtalontsi95]

What is the consensuse on a coil over setup? What are you guys running?

 

[Dallas J]

Get some koni's and GCs. They can take ludicrous spring rates and are pretty cheap (relatively). Learn about suspension set up on something cheaper yet still good, by the time youre ready to upgrade you wont be asking us .

My suggestion would be ~750 front, 350-450 rear (depending on course), front RM bar, stock rear, and the spc arms set for max caster and -2.5* camber.

The rest of the stuff like bushings and braces, and spare set of hubs and control arms(with ball joints) are also needed.

For wheels, get something that will tuck. My old kosie K1s in 16x8.5 with 245 hoosiers wouldnt tuck (probably if the fender were rolled all to hell, but I didnt do that). That was with the inside clearence of about 2mm. Out on the track, youll be hitting more bumps than I have to worry about on the auto-x course so that extra clearence will be nice.

 

[Ludachris]

I run Koni Yellows/Ground Control. If I had more cash I'd run Muellerized JIC or Hotbits. The setup I have now will be just as good as anything else on the market aside from those two. You can't beat Konis.

6-8 point roll bar will do wonders for handling as well.

 

[dsmtalontsi95]

how do you guys feel about ksport K-Sport Kontrol Pro coilovers 2G : JNZ Tuning or these Megan Racing Coilover Damper Kits - Street Series- 2g : JNZ Tuning

 

[Ludachris]

how do you guys feel about ksport K-Sport Kontrol Pro coilovers 2G : JNZ Tuning or these Megan Racing Coilover Damper Kits - Street Series- 2g : JNZ Tuning

You can see my reply above for my thoughts.

 

[Dallas J]

how do you guys feel about ksport K-Sport Kontrol Pro coilovers 2G : JNZ Tuning or these Megan Racing Coilover Damper Kits - Street Series- 2g : JNZ Tuning

Id spend the money on the Koni's. Those will probably work fine, but just cause theyre pretty doesnt mean theyre good. Koni's have been proven, and when you get to the point where you need it, they can be revalved.

I dont know who if anyone revalves k-sports or Megans.

 

[dsmtalontsi95]

I asked about those because they have damper adjustments in the 30's? I don't really care about looks. I've looked up the suspenssion on sbr, machv, extreme psi, and jnz. I didn't see any koni coilovers. What site do you use to find suspenssion parts?

 

[Dallas J]

Its been a long time since I got mine, but I think I went through tire rack. You can order them with the GCs with the normal rates (dont know what they are) or what ever custom spec you want.

 

[tsiboosted]

I asked about those because they have damper adjustments in the 30's? I don't really care about looks. I've looked up the suspenssion on sbr, machv, extreme psi, and jnz. I didn't see any koni coilovers. What site do you use to find suspenssion parts?

What Chris was talking about (obviously) was not Koni Coilvers, but Koni's with the Ground Control adjustable sleeves to make them like coilovers.

Here are the Konis

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Here are the Ground Control Sleeves

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Also, if you are looking to just stricly track this car, you will want to go with a cage in it. That will stiffen it up more than any strut bar brace will ever do. Here some tips on what all roll cages are out there for 2G DSMs.

The Street/Sport Roll Bar

The Autopower street roll bar gives your car a performance look with style. The design allows rear seats (where applicable) and interior trim to remain in place. This is not a "style bar"! A two-step high gloss black paint finish is applied to each roll bar.

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• Manufactured from 1.750" × .120" DOM Tubing
• Grade 5 mounting hardware and backup plates included for a bolt-in installation
• Production time is 3-4 weeks (plus shipping). If you are in a hurry, Autopower will make your bar within 2 weeks and then send it to you unpainted for an extra $105.00

The Auto-Power Street/Sport Roll Bar can be found at IO Port Racing Supplies for $332.95, plus shipping.

The Race Roll Bar

Full-width roll bar hoop with two rear support braces, a diagonal cross brace, shoulder harness bar and head restraint make up this roll bar.

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• Designed for Solo, Autocross and high-speed Time Trials.
• Meets SCCA and most race organization rules.
• Made from 1.75" x .120" DOM mild steel tubing. 2.00" x .120" ERW is used when car weighs over 3500 pounds. You must specify tubing type when ordering.
• 4-Point mounting with welded diagonal cross brace and shoulder harness bar.
• Grade 5 mounting hardware and backup plates included.
• Production time is 3-4 weeks (plus shipping). If you are in a hurry, Autopower will make your bar within 2 weeks and then send it to you unpainted for an extra $105.00.

This product can also be found at IO Port Racing Supplies for $431.95, plus shipping.

U-Weld Roll Cage Kit

U-weld roll cage kits are designed to be added on to Autopower race roll bars. Designed to fit each individual car model, they are not a one-fits-all universal kit. Final fitting and welding is required for assembly.

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Each kit features:

• Two forward support braces
• Top windshield cross tube
• Under-dash cross tube
• Left and right side door guards
• Four top-corner gussets
• Mounting plates and hardware
• 1.750" × .120" mild steel tubing

IO Port Racing Supplies has this item listed for $341.95, plus shipping.

Full Roll Cage

Auto-Power 6-point roll cages meet or exceed the safety requirements for most competition sanctioning organizations. Their cages have been designed to easily install and provide maximum protection. The fit in your vehicle allows quick and easy entry, and most importantly, quick exiting. Each cage is designed to conform closely to your stock interior for a clean, unobtrusive look and feel. All of their cages are certified MIG welded and precision jig notched, providing you with the maximum strength and best fit available. Every roll cage has been designed to fit a specific car models so only minor modifications are necessary for the installation.

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Finished kit when installed correctly meets SCCA Showroom Stock and IT rules. Also meets NASA and most other race organization rules. Due to new SCCA and NASA rules for 2007, the roll cage now comes with 2 extra door bars (not shown). These extra door bars will need final fitting and welding.
Designed to fit tightly with full interior

DOM Tubing - vehicle weight determines tube size:

• Under 3000 Pounds - 1.50" x .120"
• 3001-4000 Pounds - 1.75" x .120"
• Vehicle weight is determined by taking the race weight not including driver or gas.

Grade 5 mounting hardware and backing plates included
Window net and installation kit are not included, but they are available separately
Painted in black for rust protection
Made to order. Allow 4-5 weeks for production and shipping.
Rush service available at extra cost. Production time will be shortened to 2 weeks and your cage will be shipped without paint

This full roll cage kit is available through IO Port Racing supplies for $746.95, plus shipping.

Now back to the suspension. You will want to be no lower than around 750 lbs in the front and 350 lbs in the rear. Always depedning on the curcuit you are running on obviously. Camber adjustments, RM front sway bar. You can upgrade and play with the rear adjustment on the sway bar at a later time. And of course, TIRES, TIRES, TIRES. Get ready to throw allot of your money here; once you are setup and ready to go, at tires. Some fairly "cheaper" R-Compound slicks say for instance Hankooks, run around $600 - $675 depedning on what size, where you live and where you can find them on sale at a certain time. Tires can also get up into the $1500 - $2000 range as well. Just something else to keep in mind when you are talking about road racing setups. Tires are 85% of the battle to me. You can have all the best suspension equipment in the world, if you are out there on crap tires, it will all be for not. I hope some of this helps you out. Good Luck

 

[Splitpi]

What Camber adjustment kit do you recommend for the 2G?

 

[tsiboosted]

What Camber adjustment kit do you recommend for the 2G?

Well there are several companies out therre that make them for DSMs and 2Gs in particular. Ingalls seems to have a good rep out there and are made with quality. They range in price from vendor to vendor. But typically are around $$60 - $90 for the rear kits depending on how much camber adjustment you want. And $130 - $160 for the front kits; agian, depedning the adjustablility you are looking for.

Then you have the RRE camber plates that you can also go with. Which run around $290, but I didnt see any for a 2G on their site as I briefly looked around for the plates. They do however have "camber correction" kits for 2Gs which is basically an offset bushings for the upper control arms. You need to remove the upper control arm pivot (not the whole arm) and press the stock bushings out on a press. The new offset bushings slide right in. The rear kits are spacers and longer bolts that spaces the upper rear control arm out from the body to correct about 2 degrees. They are set up to correct for the amount of lowering you would get with the Eibach Pro-Kit springs. If additional washers are used, you can get a little more positive. Hope this helps you out some man.

 

[Ludachris]

I asked about those because they have damper adjustments in the 30's? I don't really care about looks. I've looked up the suspenssion on sbr, machv, extreme psi, and jnz. I didn't see any koni coilovers. What site do you use to find suspenssion parts?

As Eddie pointed out above, I'd suggest Koni with the Ground Control kit over the coilovers you mentioned. They're better quality, proven in several forms of racing, and they can be revalved. Go with quality shocks, not ones with more adjustments. You'll be much happier. Some people think that just because Konis aren't available in full coilover form that other full coilovers are automatically a better choice - not the case. If you're going to be racing don't go with a cheap coilover that's not really designed for track use.

 

[dsmtalontsi95]

If you where to get a coil over set up (tein ss-p) and the rate came with 505/335 can you change the spring rate on race day?

 

[tsiboosted]

If you where to get a coil over set up (tein ss-p) and the rate came with 505/335 can you change the spring rate on race day?

To the best of my knowledge, the only way to change the rate is to change the springs themselves. Obviously on a coil over setup you can change the ride height very easily by the adjustment wrenches. Now I'm sure you can do it, but it would include everything it took to put the original springs on that came with the kit. It would probably be more trouble than it is worth. Unless this is JUST your track car and you have the hands, the tools and the time to do this sort of thing at the track. Someone else may have an easier way or more input on this than I do

 

[TSiAWD666]

Well there are several companies out therre that make them for DSMs and 2Gs in particular. Ingalls seems to have a good rep out there and are made with quality. They range in price from vendor to vendor. But typically are around $$60 - $90 for the rear kits depending on how much camber adjustment you want. And $130 - $160 for the front kits; agian, depedning the adjustablility you are looking for.

Then you have the RRE camber plates that you can also go with. Which run around $290, but I didnt see any for a 2G on their site as I briefly looked around for the plates. They do however have "camber correction" kits for 2Gs which is basically an offset bushings for the upper control arms. You need to remove the upper control arm pivot (not the whole arm) and press the stock bushings out on a press. The new offset bushings slide right in.

Avoid ingalls kits if you use their kit with the poly bushings they usually come with as they wear quickly and get sloppy. You either have to frequently replace them or order the brass bushings that are generally track only. I haven't tried the brass ones yet, and the "track only" designation came from Ingalls, I believe because of vibration into the chassis.

There are no camber plates for 2g suspension because its design prevents their use. I.e. they don't do anything in our setup.

The front camber kits that adjust the offset of the upper a-arms barely give you any camber adjustment, and you'll be lucky to get more than -.8 deg up there. An alternative is the SPC replacement ball joint, or even more expensive the SPC replacement upper a-arm which includes a ball joint. The former I believe only gives you a bit more camber adjustment, up to -1.5 deg maybe (best verify for yourself), and the latter gives both caster and camber adjustment (up to -2.5 I think). I don't have experience with either of these two but have the a-arm replacements on the floor at home ready to go in this weekend.

 

[tsiboosted]

Avoid ingalls kits if you use their kit with the poly bushings they usually come with as they wear quickly and get sloppy. You either have to frequently replace them or order the brass bushings that are generally track only. I haven't tried the brass ones yet, and the "track only" designation came from Ingalls, I believe because of vibration into the chassis.

There are no camber plates for 2g suspension because its design prevents their use. I.e. they don't do anything in our setup.

The front camber kits that adjust the offset of the upper a-arms barely give you any camber adjustment, and you'll be lucky to get more than -.8 deg up there. An alternative is the SPC replacement ball joint, or even more expensive the SPC replacement upper a-arm which includes a ball joint. The former I believe only gives you a bit more camber adjustment, up to -1.5 deg maybe (best verify for yourself), and the latter gives both caster and camber adjustment (up to -2.5 I think). I don't have experience with either of these two but have the a-arm replacements on the floor at home ready to go in this weekend.

Nice. Thanks for the input TSiAWD666. I just did a quick search on some items for him to give some options was all really. Good luck getting the new A-Arms on this weekend. post up some pics when you are done. I would like to see how they look and go in.